Blazers to Tankers: FU, We're Winning

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There are always exceptions to every example. All I know is that any Playoff discussion the Blazers are in at 16-24 is a bit embarrassing and speaks to how far a lot of the West has fallen.
 
Nikolokolus said:
This team doesn't have enough talent to compete with the Warriors, so while winning a few more games here or there might give us warm fuzzy feelings, losing out on the potential a lotto pick represents (for a GM that has shown he is pretty at the draft) makes me think it would be one step forward and two steps back. A tactical win and a strategic loss.
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News flash: this team will never have enough talent to compete with the Warriors as long as they have Curry. Unless we plan on winning the championship in a different league, what's your big plan? Trade Dame and live in the lotto for the next 8 years while we wait for the W's and Spurs to finally start sucking?

We're not sniffing the championship until at least 2022. Until then, let's just try to have fun.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
News flash: this team will never have enough talent to compete with the Warriors as long as they have Curry. Unless we plan on winning the championship in a different league, what's your big plan? Trade Dame and live in the lotto for the next 8 years while we wait for the W's and Spurs to finally start sucking?

We're not sniffing the championship until at least 2022. Until then, let's just try to have fun.
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You want to be ready if Curry gets hurt, tho.
 
So we can't put cuss words into thread titles, but we can abbreviate them. Gotta remember these tricks for all the threads I start.
 
jlprk said:
So we can't put cuss words into thread titles, but we can abbreviate them. Gotta remember these tricks for all the threads I start.
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I thought he was referring to John Cena's finishing move ....
 
BlazerCaravan said:
News flash: this team will never have enough talent to compete with the Warriors as long as they have Curry. Unless we plan on winning the championship in a different league, what's your big plan? Trade Dame and live in the lotto for the next 8 years while we wait for the W's and Spurs to finally start sucking?

We're not sniffing the championship until at least 2022. Until then, let's just try to have fun.
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The pursuit of a championship is fun, giving up hope and settling for mediocrity and an endless string of first round exits is depressing - that's not me "just trying to have fun."

As we all know fortunes can change in the blink of an eye with injuries, so who is to say the Dubs will dominate for the next 6 years? I do know however that missing out on the chance at a lottery pick (or any pick in our case) makes it that much less likely that the team could be positioned to take advantage of an opportunity down the line.
 
Making the playoffs, losing our draft pick, and then getting smoked by golden state in four games would be 100% negative. I see no value in it.


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Strenuus said:
But it would be, IMO. We'll have differing opinions of it. But for the future of this team, I think making the playoffs in a year we need to grab a talent high in the draft would set us back. Dame is not going to have Lillard time every game of the playoffs, and we need one of him or CJ to go off to compete. Its just the truth.

But, if we win, that's cool too. I'm in the moment AND in the future. I can play both.
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It's the ABSOLUTELY worse scenario but you're cool with it? Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

Everyone assumes that if we get into the playoffs, we get knocked out of the first round. Dallas went 67-11 after an 0-4 start and got knocked out in the first round. Yes, we lost to Warriors the other night, but there was a lot of good in that game. They couldn't guard us. At all. Dame outplayed Curry. I think we can beat Golden State in a playoff series especially if we improve as the season goes on. I think the Sours are beatable too and it's always possible that we move up to 6th seed. Lots of basketball to be played. Like Crabbe said, we're better than our record and Lillard loves the players on our team. I think this team can grow from within. Like the Warriors did. They went from first round knockout in 2014 to champs in 2015 with no major roster change. Truth.
 
KingAlbertoJrSpeed said:
It's the ABSOLUTELY worse scenario but you're cool with it? Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

Everyone assumes that if we get into the playoffs, we get knocked out of the first round. Dallas went 67-11 after an 0-4 start and got knocked out in the first round. Yes, we lost to Warriors the other night, but there was a lot of good in that game. They couldn't guard us. At all. Dame outplayed Curry. I think we can beat Golden State in a playoff series especially if we improve as the season goes on. I think the Sours are beatable too and it's always possible that we move up to 6th seed. Lots of basketball to be played. Like Crabbe said, we're better than our record and Lillard loves the players on our team. I think this team can grow from within. Like the Warriors did. They went from first round knockout in 2014 to champs in 2015 with no major roster change. Truth.
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I can accept that if we win, we win. Is that better?

Also, the warriors analogy doesn't work, IMO. We had a MAJOR overhaul... 4 of 5 starters. So, while what you SAID is truth, correlation doesn't exactly happen there.
 
Strenuus said:
I can accept that if we win, we win. Is that better?

Also, the warriors analogy doesn't work, IMO. We had a MAJOR overhaul... 4 of 5 starters. So, while what you SAID is truth, correlation doesn't exactly happen there.
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The point is that we can win with the players we have. We can grow from within like they did. Maybe we get knocked out in the first or second round this season but we improve the next year without adding talent but by growing from within.
 
I'm talking this year to next. I think you thought I was talking about last year to this year.
 
KingAlbertoJrSpeed said:
The point is that we can win with the players we have. We can grow from within like they did. Maybe we get knocked out in the first or second round this season but we improve the next year without adding talent but by growing from within.
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This team is no where near as talented up and down the roster as they are. We still need to add a piece. They don't. We dont have the Draymond Green, IMO.
 
As players they better think that way, have some pride and leave it all out there. Hell, let's say we go out here in the second half of the season and finish 28-13 or something way above expectations. Is that a bad thing? Hell to the no, that's the best thing possible because it would mean that our young guys like Vonleh, Leonard, and Harkless take the Allen Crabbe jump into good rotation players. You can add decent free agents (think of Andre Miller when he came here level) to a team that is young and has shown its ready to go to the next level.

Flip side of it if we continue on our current path of winning the games we should 3/4 times and losing when we should nearly everytime (with an occasional OKC or Memphis type win sprinkled in) then we get our mid lottery pick. So looking at getting a guy that is likely really athletic without a jumpshot but has tons of potential or a more fundamentally sound but older than his peers player that no one is sure can handle the speed of the NBA. Both at least 2 years away from being a true contributor.

Which is the better scenario?
 
Well of course the Blazers are trying to win. Athletes and coaches don't have any incentive to perform poorly, its against their self interest. But everyone outside the team knows "making the playoffs" might have a nice ring to it, but all it means is getting swept by GS...scrap that, getting NUKED by GS, and losing a lottery pick.
 
BonesJones said:
Playing better is a negative?
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We aren't playing better. We are right on course. I predicted 32 wins this year and so far it looks like I'm going to be really close. You're acting like we have no talent and that's not true. We have dame, CJ, and a bunch of role players. That's simply not enough to ever be considered a contender.

If CJ is as good as Wes and Aminu is at least as good as batum last season, we are still down one all star power forward. How are we going to replace that giant hole that LMA left?


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Natebishop3 said:
We aren't playing better. We are right on course. I predicted 32 wins this year and so far it looks like I'm going to be really close. You're acting like we have no talent and that's not true. We have dame, CJ, and a bunch of role players. That's simply not enough to ever be considered a contender.

If CJ is as good as Wes and Aminu is at least as good as batum last season, we are still down one all star power forward. How are we going to replace that giant hole that LMA left?
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If we go 15-26 over the final 41 to match your prediction, then we'll be in the lottery, and we'll need it. However, I expect we'll be significantly better than that. Looking through the schedule, I think we'll win 20-25 of our final 41.

As far as contenders are concerned--the Spurs at this point are Kawhi, Lamarcus, and a bunch of role players. OKC is Durant, Westbrook, and a bunch of role players. Not every contender is going to have a "big three". We just need better role players, or for our current role players to be better.

And comparing to last season, it's arguable that our bench is as much better than last season's as our PF is worse than last season's. But there are so many areas that this team can improve internally that you'd have to be blind not to see them. Vonleh can become more aggressive in the post. Meyers can become more aggressive from the perimeter. Plumlee and Lillard can both improve their finishing at the rim. Aminu can improve his team defense, and reduce his ball-handling attempts. The team as a whole can cut down on turnovers via stupid/lazy passes. Think--if just half of those things improve incrementally, how much better will this team be? And that's without adding any FA's this summer, or making a consolidating trade for a "#3 scorer", or any of our super-inexperienced youngsters breaking out--all legitimate possibilities as well. I mean really--is it that far-fetched to consider that this team can become a contender without a top draft pick?

I've said it so many times--we are absolutely in a better spot now than we were 3 years ago, and I absolutely believe we were a contender last year before Wes went down. Neil built that team without a top-5 pick; I fully believe he can do it again.
 
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So we're counting on Vonleh, Alexander, Montero and Connaughton to improve enough that we're a contender?
I don't really think that's what you're saying, I'm just being difficult. But I really don't see internal improvement getting this team past the 1st round ever.
 
As I see it, it's never been a tank or bust situation for Olshey. It's more of a coming to a forked path and having to choose between riding out the season with this roster and looking for help in the form of a lottery draft pick or instead making an in-season trade using cap space in the form of an unbalanced trade that will bring help this season. He's got between now and the Feb. 18th trade deadline to decide which way to go.

After last night's win, the Blazers stand at 17 and 24, 1.5 games behind the Jazz for the last playoff spot. They have a very advantageous schedule between now and the deadline: 13 games, 8 home vs. 5 away, and only 5 against teams with winning records. They could very easily go 10-3 in that stretch and end up 27-27 at the deadline and hold the 7th or 8th seed. If that happens, I'd expect Olshey to commit fully to improving the team's chances for this season by making a trade deadline deal. On the other hand, if the Blazers are out of the playoffs by that date, I think he'll hold off making any move unless a real blockbuster becomes available and you'll see the team begin to rest guys with minor injuries, etc. in order to improve the team's draft position. I admire the fact that the players are fully committed to winning now. Let the team's play determine which path Olshey chooses.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
If we go 15-26 over the final 41 to match your prediction, then we'll be in the lottery, and we'll need it. However, I expect we'll be significantly better than that. Looking through the schedule, I think we'll win 20-25 of our final 41.

As far as contenders are concerned--the Spurs at this point are Kawhi, Lamarcus, and a bunch of role players. OKC is Durant, Westbrook, and a bunch of role players. Not every contender is going to have a "big three". We just need better role players, or for our current role players to be better.

And comparing to last season, it's arguable that our bench is as much better than last season's as our PF is worse than last season's. But there are so many areas that this team can improve internally that you'd have to be blind not to see them. Vonleh can become more aggressive in the post. Meyers can become more aggressive from the perimeter. Plumlee and Lillard can both improve their finishing at the rim. Aminu can improve his team defense, and reduce his ball-handling attempts. The team as a whole can cut down on turnovers via stupid/lazy passes. Think--if just half of those things improve incrementally, how much better will this team be? And that's without adding any FA's this summer, or making a consolidating trade for a "#3 scorer", or any of our super-inexperienced youngsters breaking out--all legitimate possibilities as well. I mean really--is it that far-fetched to consider that this team can become a contender without a top draft pick?

I've said it so many times--we are absolutely in a better spot now than we were 3 years ago, and I absolutely believe we were a contender last year before Wes went down. Neil built that team without a top-5 pick; I fully believe he can do it again.
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True but he built the team around LaMarcus, an All-Star and possibly the best power forward in the game for a couple years there. LA had a lot of flaws, but he could be unstoppable when he wanted to be. You listed OKC and San Antonio, but right now I'm not sure if there's a player on our roster as good as Westbrook, not even mentioning Durant. I don't think San Antonio is going to go as far as some people think because I think a core of LA/Kawhi isn't as strong as Durant/Westbrook or Curry/Klay/Draymond. is Dame/CJ really comparable to any of those combos though?
 
Natebishop3 said:
True but he built the team around LaMarcus, an All-Star and possibly the best power forward in the game for a couple years there. LA had a lot of flaws, but he could be unstoppable when he wanted to be. You listed OKC and San Antonio, but right now I'm not sure if there's a player on our roster as good as Westbrook, not even mentioning Durant. I don't think San Antonio is going to go as far as some people think because I think a core of LA/Kawhi isn't as strong as Durant/Westbrook or Curry/Klay/Draymond. is Dame/CJ really comparable to any of those combos though?
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Yet? No. In a couple years? Maybe. Too soon to tell.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Yet? No. In a couple years? Maybe. Too soon to tell.
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I think CJ could be a nice third guy, like Wes, but I still think we need that second star player to really be considered a contender. I've never bought into the "big three" idea, but I think you have to have a "big two" and I'm not sure if CJ can be one of those two.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
News flash: this team will never have enough talent to compete with the Warriors as long as they have Curry. Unless we plan on winning the championship in a different league, what's your big plan? Trade Dame and live in the lotto for the next 8 years while we wait for the W's and Spurs to finally start sucking?

We're not sniffing the championship until at least 2022. Until then, let's just try to have fun.
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Dude, that's not just a negative wave, it's a negative tsunami. Curry ain't God (His godson and a choirboy maybe, but he's not infallible). Every year is a new shot. I can absolutely guarantee you that, with the exception of a very few, very hardcore pundits, nobody but nobody saw us winning the championship in '77. Nobody! Walton was always special but he was injury prone and moody. We had a team load of new players, a new coach and we were in the same conference as a kickass Laker team (excuse me for a moment while I go vomit. That was a tough admission for me.....). Plus, the 76ers were the new dynasty that was gonna revolutionize the NBA and give the Celtics dynasty a run. We all know what happened. Sometimes it's shit, sometimes it's serendipity. Fortunately we got the latter before the former kicked us in the ass. Point is, never ever say never....or "later" The only time there is no hope is when you give up hope. I get the "lets try and have fun" part. That's a survival technique. But there are just too many variables (injuries, rule changes, coaching strategies, etc) at play to just give up and roll with it. Now go back to bed and get up on the other side with a smile on your face. We've never backed down from the Lakers and we're damn sure not going to back down from the late to the party, new league darlings, pussy Warriors. Every year is a new page. And we have yet to turn this one...and please don't ever piss in my morning Cheerios again..... :needcoffeee:
 
I still think Curry is fragile, and that team isn't nearly as good with him out.
 
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