Blazers to Tankers: FU, We're Winning

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It's tough to gauge if Portland is over performing or if much of the West is in decline so we don't look so bad by comparison. In a 'normal' West year, this isn't even an issue but because other teams are so much worse, somehow being in a playoff discussion makes us better? Not sure that is the case.

There is a difference between having a bunch of young players and having a potential young Star/Superstar player. Ben Simmons IS a difference maker and Ingram could be as well. Who knows what Dragan Bender brings but I guarantee NO ONE thought Porzingis would have this much of an impact on the big stage of New York last year.

Add someone of that ability to Dame/CJ where the pressure to carry the team is removed and you have a situation where they can really flourish. Portland will be good enough next year to make the Playoffs....this year is there one chance for a while.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Alexander. And a couple 22 yo's in Montero and Connaughton.
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Of those you list and Vonleh, only Vonleh has any sort of pedigree and realistic chance of turning into a reliable starter. I'd be surprised if those three were even on the roster or in the NBA by the time their contracts expire.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Of those you list and Vonleh, only Vonleh has any sort of pedigree and realistic chance of turning into a reliable starter. I'd be surprised if those three were even on the roster or in the NBA by the time their contracts expire.
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I'll just go ahead and disagree with you on this one.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
Dude, that's not just a negative wave, it's a negative tsunami. Curry ain't God (His godson and a choirboy maybe, but he's not infallible). Every year is a new shot. I can absolutely guarantee you that, with the exception of a very few, very hardcore pundits, nobody but nobody saw us winning the championship in '77. Nobody! Walton was always special but he was injury prone and moody. We had a team load of new players, a new coach and we were in the same conference as a kickass Laker team (excuse me for a moment while I go vomit. That was a tough admission for me.....). Plus, the 76ers were the new dynasty that was gonna revolutionize the NBA and give the Celtics dynasty a run. We all know what happened. Sometimes it's shit, sometimes it's serendipity. Fortunately we got the latter before the former kicked us in the ass. Point is, never ever say never....or "later" The only time there is no hope is when you give up hope. I get the "lets try and have fun" part. That's a survival technique. But there are just too many variables (injuries, rule changes, coaching strategies, etc) at play to just give up and roll with it. Now go back to bed and get up on the other side with a smile on your face. We've never backed down from the Lakers and we're damn sure not going to back down from the late to the party, new league darlings, pussy Warriors. Every year is a new page. And we have yet to turn this one...and please don't ever piss in my morning Cheerios again..... :needcoffeee:
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I was using the tanker's mentality against them. "Oh, let's get into the lotto now because we'll get crushed by the Warriors" - Fuck that noise. Play hard, get as high as you can. Otherwise we're just waiting for our time that will never come.

My wife and I waited until we were "ready" before having our son. Trouble was, her father died before our son turned 3, so he'll never remember his grandpa. In hindsight, we both regret waiting so long. We wish we could have pushed harder in our life instead of waiting until "our time".

I'm actually against everything I wrote; I thought it was obvious, but my head is quite a jumble so not everything makes it out clearly. :ghoti:
 
TBpup said:
It's tough to gauge if Portland is over performing or if much of the West is in decline so we don't look so bad by comparison. In a 'normal' West year, this isn't even an issue but because other teams are so much worse, somehow being in a playoff discussion makes us better? Not sure that is the case.

There is a difference between having a bunch of young players and having a potential young Star/Superstar player. Ben Simmons IS a difference maker and Ingram could be as well. Who knows what Dragan Bender brings but I guarantee NO ONE thought Porzingis would have this much of an impact on the big stage of New York last year.

Add someone of that ability to Dame/CJ where the pressure to carry the team is removed and you have a situation where they can really flourish. Portland will be good enough next year to make the Playoffs....this year is there one chance for a while.
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There's a third option: Yes, there's been a drop-off in the bottom tier of the West bracket, but the Blazers may just be better than we thought. CJ has developed faster than expected and Crabbe has developed into both an offensive and defensive force. We could use a stud frontcourt player, but Plumlee and Davis have been solid and Aminu, Henderson, Leonard and even Harkless can have games where they are significant contributors.

I have no idea why you bring up Simmons and Ingram as realistic options for the Blazers. Barring some pretty long ping pong ball odds, there's no way those guys are on the board when the Blazers draft.
 
We have zero
e_blazer said:
There's a third option: Yes, there's been a drop-off in the bottom tier of the West bracket, but the Blazers may just be better than we thought. CJ has developed faster than expected and Crabbe has developed into both an offensive and defensive force. We could use a stud frontcourt player, but Plumlee and Davis have been solid and Aminu, Henderson, Leonard and even Harkless can have games where they are significant contributors.

I have no idea why you bring up Simmons and Ingram as realistic options for the Blazers. Barring some pretty long ping pong ball odds, there's no way those guys are on the board when the Blazers draft.
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There are other guys worth having in this draft. This team has a talent problem, this is the easiest and least expensive option (both in terms of opportunity cost and real dollars).
 
KeepOnRollin said:
Alexander (for one) had a higher pedigree than Vonleh coming into College. He should have stayed more time of course but a pesky NCAA investigation got in his way.
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I'm not talking about High School pedigree, I'm talking about expectations based on whatever performance it was that lead a guy to getting (or not getting) drafted by an NBA team. Alexander had a rough, injury plagued season at Kansas and while it's possible he might blossom in the NBA, that's probably not the way to bet.
 
Nikolokolus said:
We have zero

There are other guys worth having in this draft. This team has a talent problem, this is the easiest and least expensive option (both in terms of opportunity cost and real dollars).
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Of course there are, but not many are likely to be the difference makers that we're looking for; at least in a 2-3 year time frame.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I'm not talking about High School pedigree, I'm talking about expectations based on whatever performance it was that lead a guy to getting (or not getting) drafted by an NBA team. Alexander had a rough, injury plagued season at Kansas and while it's possible he might blossom in the NBA, that's probably not the way to bet.
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Ok so you should have set those perimeters from the beginning so we knew that we had to frame it in the way you wanted.

I didn't see you do this. If you did and I just missed it then I apologize.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
Ok so you should have set those perimeters from the beginning so we knew that we had to frame it in the way you wanted.

I didn't see you do this. If you did and I just missed it then I apologize.
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You'll do better next time. ;)
 
e_blazer said:
Of course there are, but not many are likely to be the difference makers that we're looking for; at least in a 2-3 year time frame.
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Well guess what has a 100% likelihood of not producing a productive player? Not having a draft pick at all. I'll take 20-30% over 0% every single time.
 
I feel like we've been having this argument again and again, but if you look around the league, the draft is the best, and in some cases the only way, to get a top 5 talent.

Go down the All-Star rosters last season.

Eastern team:

With their original team - 7
With a different team - 6

Western team:

With their original team - 12
With a different team - 3

Overall:

With their original team - 19
With a different team - 9

If you put together your top 5 players who would they be?

Curry
Westbrook
LeBron
Durant
Harden?

Out of those, four are with their original team that drafted them. Obviously LeBron left and came back, but he got the Cavs to the finals during his initial run and he did return so I'm going to count it because technically it's true.
 
e_blazer said:
I have no idea why you bring up Simmons and Ingram as realistic options for the Blazers. Barring some pretty long ping pong ball odds, there's no way those guys are on the board when the Blazers draft.
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Because Portland, until a couple games ago, was just a couple games out of the #4/5 spot. That historically has a solid chance of moving into the Top-3. When Portland had the worst record, 3 teams jumped in front of them. When Portland got the #1 pick, they started at #4 and Seattle jumped to #2 from #5....it happens quite often. But the odds are much more in your favor at #4/5/6 than at #10 where Portland currently is. That RARELY happens.

So a lot of difference can be shown between a team that wins say 28-30 wins and has a legit shot at an impact player and a team in the late lottery that is stuck in purgatory. Of course there are exceptions every year but when it's just a few meaningless wins, take all the help you can get.

Being in the Playoff discussion a couple games ago when Portland was 15-24 or even now at 17-24 is a bit embarrassing and speaks more to how much the West has declined than how Portland is over achieving or anywhere close to a legit playoff team. Now if we were 21-21 and fighting for the #7/8 spot like what would have been the case in years past, it's a different discussion. Not only would the record have been better but those wins would have come against more quality teams. Portland is getting some wins against teams that have significantly fallen this year.

The Blazers have 4 Total Wins against teams over .500 and those are all at home. 4 wins in 41 games against teams over the .500. How this team doesn't need more impact players is beyond me and getting them via FA'cy just doesn't work....and it's not likely we are trading what we have for something better. That also doesn't bode well for a meaningful playoff experience other than a drubbing if they do make the playoffs.

I'm all for playoff experience but it doesn't do much good if there is little to no competition. A tough playoff series loss can be helpful but getting drubbed by Memphis or SA like in the last two seasons does little to help growth...and certainly not as much as adding more talent would.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
I was using the tanker's mentality against them. "Oh, let's get into the lotto now because we'll get crushed by the Warriors" - Fuck that noise. Play hard, get as high as you can. Otherwise we're just waiting for our time that will never come.

My wife and I waited until we were "ready" before having our son. Trouble was, her father died before our son turned 3, so he'll never remember his grandpa. In hindsight, we both regret waiting so long. We wish we could have pushed harder in our life instead of waiting until "our time".

I'm actually against everything I wrote; I thought it was obvious, but my head is quite a jumble so not everything makes it out clearly. :ghoti:
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I get it. But you had been kinda quiet lately so I was worried that maybe your faith was wavering. I gladly stand corrected......and shoulda known better. And the next time we do the suite thing, we need you to be there. It's a boatload of positive energy. I'll even pay for the babysitter if that helps.....
 
Nikolokolus said:
Well guess what has a 100% likelihood of not producing a productive player? Not having a draft pick at all. I'll take 20-30% over 0% every single time.
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Well, as I've said before, I don't see it as an all or nothing equation. To me it's A) lottery pick this year (likely 6-10 range), no pick next year; B) Trade deadline deal for a solid vet this year, draft pick next year (likely 15-20 range). Barring some ping pong ball magic, I'm not sure that there's a significant difference between the two as far as making the Blazers more competitive.
 
I don't know much about next year's draft, but at face value I'd say I'd rather be picking 6-10 now and get that guy into the system a year earlier (and do other trades and signings as you can) versus drafting 15-20 next year, which just delays integrating this hypothetical young guy into the lineup.

Dame aint getting any younger.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I don't know much about next year's draft, but at face value I'd say I'd rather be picking 6-10 now and get that guy into the system a year earlier (and do other trades and signings as you can) versus drafting 15-20 next year, which just delays integrating this hypothetical young guy into the lineup.

Dame aint getting any younger.
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And it's funny how it's mostly the same people who were against trading LA two years ago that are now pushing to make the playoffs. If we would have started the rebuilding two years ago, maybe we would be in a better position right now. :dunno:
 
e_blazer said:
Well, as I've said before, I don't see it as an all or nothing equation. To me it's A) lottery pick this year (likely 6-10 range), no pick next year; B) Trade deadline deal for a solid vet this year, draft pick next year (likely 15-20 range). Barring some ping pong ball magic, I'm not sure that there's a significant difference between the two as far as making the Blazers more competitive.
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B can be tweaked though. We could facilitate a deal for a team like Boston and take one of their many picks in return for Lee's contract and still have multiple picks possibly.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I don't know much about next year's draft, but at face value I'd say I'd rather be picking 6-10 now and get that guy into the system a year earlier (and do other trades and signings as you can) versus drafting 15-20 next year, which just delays integrating this hypothetical young guy into the lineup.

Dame aint getting any younger.
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Yeah, that last bit is the biggest part of the equation for me. He's going to be 26 by the start of next season and just entering what will likely be his 4-5 peak years. A 6-10 range pick historically doesn't do much until about his 3rd year. I'm really hoping that Olshey has some trade magic up his sleeve.
 
Natebishop3 said:
And it's funny how it's mostly the same people who were against trading LA two years ago that are now pushing to make the playoffs. If we would have started the rebuilding two years ago, maybe we would be in a better position right now. :dunno:
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Nobody wants to "pay the cost to be the boss" :wink:
 
e_blazer said:
Yeah, that last bit is the biggest part of the equation for me. He's going to be 26 by the start of next season and just entering what will likely be his 4-5 peak years. A 6-10 range pick historically doesn't do much until about his 3rd year. I'm really hoping that Olshey has some trade magic up his sleeve.
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I don't follow?

Wouldn't you rather Olshey have some draft magic up his sleeve in June? If he hits on a guy and he takes 2-3 years as you say, wouldn't that put him in Damian's prime years and line up for a few years of (hopefully) decent playoff runs and maybe even (god forbid) a chance at the ultimate prize?
 
Nikolokolus said:
Nobody wants to "pay the cost to be the boss" :wink:
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I can understand why some people fall into the "love the one you're with" category, and are content with "the now," but I like to look at the big picture. I want to win a freaking championship dammit. I'm tired of coming close, or just being one of the better teams. I have watched the Ducks lose in the Natty twice now. I have watched the Niners lose two NFC championships and one Super Bowl. This is all in the span of five or six years. I want to see the Blazers succeed, and in a league of super stars, we aren't going to get it done with Dame and CJ.
 
Natebishop3 said:
And it's funny how it's mostly the same people who were against trading LA two years ago that are now pushing to make the playoffs. If we would have started the rebuilding two years ago, maybe we would be in a better position right now. :dunno:
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Who knows, what was the deal Cleveland offered? #1, #19 and Thompson?
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
Who knows, what was the deal Cleveland offered? #1, #19 and Thompson?
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That's the rumor. Supposedly Golden State offered one of Klay or Barnes with Lee. Not sure how true that was, but if we HAD taken Cleveland's offer, we could have Oladipo/Gobert (hindsight being 20/20) and Thompson to go with Dame. Maybe we keep Batum or draft the Greek Freak instead of CJ if we already had Oladipo. Things could be drastically different right now if we had dealt LA.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I don't follow?

Wouldn't you rather Olshey have some draft magic up his sleeve in June? If he hits on a guy and he takes 2-3 years as you say, wouldn't that put him in Damian's prime years and line up for a few years of (hopefully) decent playoff runs and maybe even (god forbid) a chance at the ultimate prize?
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Hey, if he can hit a home run in the draft, whoopee! Nobody would be happier. Olshey's recent picks in the mid-lottery range include: CJ, Leonard, and Aminu. CJ is the only one with even a sniff at being an All-Star. Not exactly confidence building that there's probable gold in that path.
 
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