Trade Blazers trade away Noah Vonleh

[BonesJones]

So trading CJ for cap space would be a good move?

We do need help at both F positions, but making a move for the sake of it still makes no sense to me. Because of the example given.

I don’t see a good deal Neil could have made, given who was rumored available.

Hernangomez

 

[CupWizier]

So, Batum for...

This guy.

Did Henderson not play and play well for Portland? Did Vonleh not have some good games for Portland? Would you rather have Batums $25mil a year contract instead? Your logic is like saying Brandon Roy was a wasted draft pick due to having to retire due to injuries.

 

[Denny Crane]

Hernangomez

So you think he'd make us a championship contender? I don't.

 

[BonesJones]

So you think he'd make us a championship contender? I don't.

Who said that? It's a good deal he could've made.

 

[Denny Crane]

Who said that? It's a good deal he could've made.

You don't know he was available, and you don't know what the asking price is. Or what the LT situation would be after such a deal.

Neil is no idiot. Quite the opposite.

 

[BonesJones]

You don't know he was available, and you don't know what the asking price is. Or what the LT situation would be after such a deal.

Neil is no idiot. Quite the opposite.

I don't know if the guy who got traded for two 2nd round picks was available nor what his asking price was? Do you pay attention to the NBA? And I cant do basic math to determine if wed be under the tax or not? What? Lol.

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't know if the guy who got traded for two 2nd round picks was available nor what his asking price was? Do you pay attention to the NBA? And I cant do basic math to determine if wed be under the tax or not? What? Lol.

NO traded to get under the LT. Trading two 2nd round picks for any contract would put us over again. You don't know if the guy was available for a deal that kept us under the LT.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Random Notes:
1) Suns acquire former first-round pick Elfrid Payton from Magic for a 2nd round pick

2) Elfrid Payton >> Vonleh

I don't like it, but there it is.

 

[Denny Crane]

Random Notes:
1) Suns acquire former first-round pick Elfrid Payton from Magic for a 2nd round pick

2) Elfrid Payton >> Vonleh

I don't like it, but there it is.

Payton makes more than Vonleh. It'd have made the LT situation worse. Plus, we'd be adding him to our strongest position, not addressing our positions of need.

IMO

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Payton makes more than Vonleh. It'd have made the LT situation worse. Plus, we'd be adding him to our strongest position, not addressing our positions of need.

IMO

Um, sorry if I wasn't clear. I was trying to show why we didn't get a 2nd rounders for Vonleh, not that we should have gotten Payton.

 

[TBpup]

WHAT DID NOAH ACTUALLY DO?

Noah was just given away to Chicago and that is generous because Portland had to PAY to unload his small, ending contract. So much for Neil's 'young assets'. It was always frustrating to me to see him start games but only play 6-7 minutes per half and sometimes not come in for the 2nd half at all. His scoring numbers were pedestrian but then for a guy who didn't have a play run for him in 3 seasons and how offensive role was to set picks and if he got the ball, immediately hand it back to a guard or look for one to pass to. So what happened when he really got to play?

Well, for all his starts in the 2016-17 season, he didn't get to play 20+ minutes in back-to-back games until March 14 of last year. When that happened and he actually got some rhythm and probably a little more confidence (which only seems natural for a then 21 year old) I was surprised by what he did in the next 18 games:
MP - 23.8 (29.1)
RPG - 8.3 (7.4)
PPG - 7.4 (8.7)
FG% - .598 on 55-92 shooting. That equates to 5.1 shots per game. (.393)
FT% - . 744 on 32-43 shooting. (.706)
On very limited 3-pt attempts, he was 7-20 for the season...35% (.330)
ORtg - 126.4 (96.2)
DRtg - 106.9 (106.1)

This season was similar when he got more minutes and in the 3 games he played over 30 minutes, he averaged 9 pts and 13.3 rebs, shot .667 from the field and 70% from the FT line. That was over a 5 games stretch. He only played over 20 minutes once more in his Blazers career.

For comparison's sake, I put Aminu's numbers for last year in (parenthesis) next to Vonleh's for last season. When Noah actually played more than sporadic minutes, he got more rebounds per minute, similar points, shot WAY better from the field, better from the FT line and even better from '3' in limited attempts. His offensive rating crushed Aminu's and his defensive rating was almost identical.

So when given his opportunities, I'm not sure how he didn't get more of a chance. The 'development' for a guy who never had a play run for him looked to be going just fine.....when he got to play. Of course I would have liked to see him be more aggressive with his offense but that wasn't his role and he certainly made the most of the shots he did take during that stretch.

I think he had a lot more to give.

 

[blue9]

WHAT DID NOAH ACTUALLY DO?

Noah was just given away to Chicago and that is generous because Portland had to PAY to unload his small, ending contract. So much for Neil's 'young assets'. It was always frustrating to me to see him start games but only play 6-7 minutes per half and sometimes not come in for the 2nd half at all. His scoring numbers were pedestrian but then for a guy who didn't have a play run for him in 3 seasons and how offensive role was to set picks and if he got the ball, immediately hand it back to a guard or look for one to pass to. So what happened when he really got to play?

Well, for all his starts in the 2016-17 season, he didn't get to play 20+ minutes in back-to-back games until March 14 of last year. When that happened and he actually got some rhythm and probably a little more confidence (which only seems natural for a then 21 year old) I was surprised by what he did in the next 18 games:
MP - 23.8 (29.1)
RPG - 8.3 (7.4)
PPG - 7.4 (8.7)
FG% - .598 on 55-92 shooting. That equates to 5.1 shots per game. (.393)
FT% - . 744 on 32-43 shooting. (.706)
On very limited 3-pt attempts, he was 7-20 for the season...35% (.330)
ORtg - 126.4 (96.2)
DRtg - 106.9 (106.1)

This season was similar when he got more minutes and in the 3 games he played over 30 minutes, he averaged 9 pts and 13.3 rebs, shot .667 from the field and 70% from the FT line. That was over a 5 games stretch. He only played over 20 minutes once more in his Blazers career.

For comparison's sake, I put Aminu's numbers for last year in (parenthesis) next to Vonleh's for last season. When Noah actually played more than sporadic minutes, he got more rebounds per minute, similar points, shot WAY better from the field, better from the FT line and even better from '3' in limited attempts. His offensive rating crushed Aminu's and his defensive rating was almost identical.

So when given his opportunities, I'm not sure how he didn't get more of a chance. The 'development' for a guy who never had a play run for him looked to be going just fine.....when he got to play. Of course I would have liked to see him be more aggressive with his offense but that wasn't his role and he certainly made the most of the shots he did take during that stretch.

I think he had a lot more to give.

Great post!

 

[e_blazer]

WHAT DID NOAH ACTUALLY DO?

Noah was just given away to Chicago and that is generous because Portland had to PAY to unload his small, ending contract. So much for Neil's 'young assets'. It was always frustrating to me to see him start games but only play 6-7 minutes per half and sometimes not come in for the 2nd half at all. His scoring numbers were pedestrian but then for a guy who didn't have a play run for him in 3 seasons and how offensive role was to set picks and if he got the ball, immediately hand it back to a guard or look for one to pass to. So what happened when he really got to play?

Well, for all his starts in the 2016-17 season, he didn't get to play 20+ minutes in back-to-back games until March 14 of last year. When that happened and he actually got some rhythm and probably a little more confidence (which only seems natural for a then 21 year old) I was surprised by what he did in the next 18 games:
MP - 23.8 (29.1)
RPG - 8.3 (7.4)
PPG - 7.4 (8.7)
FG% - .598 on 55-92 shooting. That equates to 5.1 shots per game. (.393)
FT% - . 744 on 32-43 shooting. (.706)
On very limited 3-pt attempts, he was 7-20 for the season...35% (.330)
ORtg - 126.4 (96.2)
DRtg - 106.9 (106.1)

This season was similar when he got more minutes and in the 3 games he played over 30 minutes, he averaged 9 pts and 13.3 rebs, shot .667 from the field and 70% from the FT line. That was over a 5 games stretch. He only played over 20 minutes once more in his Blazers career.

For comparison's sake, I put Aminu's numbers for last year in (parenthesis) next to Vonleh's for last season. When Noah actually played more than sporadic minutes, he got more rebounds per minute, similar points, shot WAY better from the field, better from the FT line and even better from '3' in limited attempts. His offensive rating crushed Aminu's and his defensive rating was almost identical.

So when given his opportunities, I'm not sure how he didn't get more of a chance. The 'development' for a guy who never had a play run for him looked to be going just fine.....when he got to play. Of course I would have liked to see him be more aggressive with his offense but that wasn't his role and he certainly made the most of the shots he did take during that stretch.

I think he had a lot more to give.

He was going to be gone at the end of the season anyway. His contract was up and the Blazers have way too many power forwards on the roster to justify spending money on renewing Noah, particularly when they need to re-sign Nurkic and doing that is going to put them well into LT again. It was a numbers game and neither the minutes or the dollars were there for Noah.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Nice breakdown, but seriously, Noah refused to even look at the basket from the free throw line out. We're playing 4 on 5 on offense with him out there.

WHAT DID NOAH ACTUALLY DO?

Noah was just given away to Chicago and that is generous because Portland had to PAY to unload his small, ending contract. So much for Neil's 'young assets'. It was always frustrating to me to see him start games but only play 6-7 minutes per half and sometimes not come in for the 2nd half at all. His scoring numbers were pedestrian but then for a guy who didn't have a play run for him in 3 seasons and how offensive role was to set picks and if he got the ball, immediately hand it back to a guard or look for one to pass to. So what happened when he really got to play?

Well, for all his starts in the 2016-17 season, he didn't get to play 20+ minutes in back-to-back games until March 14 of last year. When that happened and he actually got some rhythm and probably a little more confidence (which only seems natural for a then 21 year old) I was surprised by what he did in the next 18 games:
MP - 23.8 (29.1)
RPG - 8.3 (7.4)
PPG - 7.4 (8.7)
FG% - .598 on 55-92 shooting. That equates to 5.1 shots per game. (.393)
FT% - . 744 on 32-43 shooting. (.706)
On very limited 3-pt attempts, he was 7-20 for the season...35% (.330)
ORtg - 126.4 (96.2)
DRtg - 106.9 (106.1)

This season was similar when he got more minutes and in the 3 games he played over 30 minutes, he averaged 9 pts and 13.3 rebs, shot .667 from the field and 70% from the FT line. That was over a 5 games stretch. He only played over 20 minutes once more in his Blazers career.

For comparison's sake, I put Aminu's numbers for last year in (parenthesis) next to Vonleh's for last season. When Noah actually played more than sporadic minutes, he got more rebounds per minute, similar points, shot WAY better from the field, better from the FT line and even better from '3' in limited attempts. His offensive rating crushed Aminu's and his defensive rating was almost identical.

So when given his opportunities, I'm not sure how he didn't get more of a chance. The 'development' for a guy who never had a play run for him looked to be going just fine.....when he got to play. Of course I would have liked to see him be more aggressive with his offense but that wasn't his role and he certainly made the most of the shots he did take during that stretch.

I think he had a lot more to give.

 

[TBpup]

He was going to be gone at the end of the season anyway. His contract was up and the Blazers have way too many power forwards on the roster to justify spending money on renewing Noah, particularly when they need to re-sign Nurkic and doing that is going to put them well into LT again. It was a numbers game and neither the minutes or the dollars were there for Noah.

I agree that the dollars weren't there....but given his production when given regular solid minutes, maybe they should have been. Money was spent elsewhere on far less production and efficiency. Because of that, his minutes were cut because it was known he wasn't coming back. 3 out of 5 games he played 30+ minutes and all of a sudden....almost nothing. I know he hurt his finger but that only cost him a couple of games. It just doesn't seem like he was rewarded for his production and instead he is gone because of Neil's terrible 2016 spending.

 

[blue9]

Nice breakdown, but seriously, Noah refused to even look at the basket from the free throw line out. We're playing 4 on 5 on offense with him out there.

So we should probably pay a team to take Ed Davis too, then.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I think that (as is common) there's probably a disconnect between what the FO wants to accomplish and what Stotts wants to get out of this team. IMO, Harkless and Vonleh, and to a lesser extent Meyers, really needed to be given minutes for the purpose of trying to generate some sort of trade value out of them, but there was no way Stotts was going to sacrifice team performance for long-term gain. Certainly not unique to the Blazers, but I think it hurt us at this trade deadline.

 

[TBpup]

Nice breakdown, but seriously, Noah refused to even look at the basket from the free throw line out. We're playing 4 on 5 on offense with him out there.

Given the ORtg when he played over 20 minutes for that 18 games run, it certainly didn't seem to have an adverse effect. An ORtg of 126.4? I agree, I would like him to look for his own shot more but SOMETHING he was doing was being incredibly effective and the numbers show that out.

 

[blue9]

He was going to be gone at the end of the season anyway. His contract was up and the Blazers have way too many power forwards on the roster to justify spending money on renewing Noah, particularly when they need to re-sign Nurkic and doing that is going to put them well into LT again. It was a numbers game and neither the minutes or the dollars were there for Noah.

Trade Aminu to open up dollars for Vonleh. Or AT THE VERY LEAST, play Vonleh 10mpg so he has some value and you don't have to PAY to get rid of him.
Vonleh has the ability to be every bit as good - and even better - than Aminu. He is younger, and currently cheaper. After he finally started putting it together last season, it made zero sense to not just bench him, but shelve him, in favor of Aminu.

 

[Pinwheel1]

So, Batum for...

This guy.

Batum is better than what we have...... but his 5-15 last night (1-8 from deep) reminded me that he would not have been the difference make either. We need a wing who can shoot from deep AND attack the basket. I guarantee most here would be bitching about him if we were paying him 20 mil per.

 

[e_blazer]

I agree that the dollars weren't there....but given his production when given regular solid minutes, maybe they should have been. Money was spent elsewhere on far less production and efficiency. Because of that, his minutes were cut because it was known he wasn't coming back. 3 out of 5 games he played 30+ minutes and all of a sudden....almost nothing. I know he hurt his finger but that only cost him a couple of games. It just doesn't seem like he was rewarded for his production and instead he is gone because of Neil's terrible 2016 spending.

The money binge in 2016 was a factor, but more so was drafting two other PFs last summer. Collins is the team’s future at that position. They wouldn’t have spent money on Noah regardless.

 

[blue9]

I think that (as is common) there's probably a disconnect between what the FO wants to accomplish and what Stotts wants to get out of this team. IMO, Harkless and Vonleh, and to a lesser extent Meyers, really needed to be given minutes for the purpose of trying to generate some sort of trade value out of them, but there was no way Stotts was going to sacrifice team performance for long-term gain. Certainly not unique to the Blazers, but I think it hurt us at this trade deadline.

Big time! Totally mismanaged Harkless and Vonleh.

 

[e_blazer]

Trade Aminu to open up dollars for Vonleh. Or AT THE VERY LEAST, play Vonleh 10mpg so he has some value and you don't have to PAY to get rid of him.
Vonleh has the ability to be every bit as good - and even better - than Aminu. He is younger, and currently cheaper. After he finally started putting it together last season, it made zero sense to not just bench him, but shelve him, in favor of Aminu.

The team would have had to pay far more in LT if they had kept Vonleh. You don’t know that there were deals available to offload Aminu’s bigger contract, even if you are correct that Noah has more long term potential.

 

[Scalma]

There were starters that went for second rounders, so I don’t know how we would’ve gotten more for Vonleh than we did, even if he played.

And who cares that “we” payed Chicago? It has no affect on Portland’s cap.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

So we should probably pay a team to take Ed Davis too, then.

Surely you don't think this is correct. Ed is a league leader in rebounding off the bench, and a very effective NBA player. Vonleh isn't.

 

[dviss1]

Trade Aminu to open up dollars for Vonleh. Or AT THE VERY LEAST, play Vonleh 10mpg so he has some value and you don't have to PAY to get rid of him.
Vonleh has the ability to be every bit as good - and even better - than Aminu. He is younger, and currently cheaper. After he finally started putting it together last season, it made zero sense to not just bench him, but shelve him, in favor of Aminu.

LOL... Your blind hate for Aminu makes you think we should have kept Vonleh and what, pay him....??

Aminu is 3x the player Vonleh is...

Please stop with this crap narrative...

 

[TBpup]

Nice breakdown, but seriously, Noah refused to even look at the basket from the free throw line out. We're playing 4 on 5 on offense with him out there.

So we should probably pay a team to take Ed Davis too, then.

Actually, Ed might not be a bad comparison so I looked into Ed's last 17 games to compare to Aminu's 17 games during that stretch that that Vonleh got minutes last year.

MP - 20.2 (V - 23.8, A - 29.1)
ORtg 123.3 (V - 126.4, A - 96.2)
DRtg 108.6 (V - 106.9, A - 106.1)
RPG - 7.8 (V - 8.3, A - 7.4)
PPG - 6.2 (V - 7.4, A - 8.7)
FG% - 43-66 for .651 (V - .598, A - .393) Davis taking 3.9 shots per game, Vonleh 5.1
FT% - 22-34 for .647 (V - .744, A - .706)
3Pt% - 0 on no attempts. (V - .350, A - .330)
Age - Davis 28, Aminu 27, Vonleh 23

Vonleh is the most versatile defender of the three because although he is not as tough as Davis down low, is certainly better on the perimeter. I think he is about equal to Aminu on the perimeter with even quicker feet and certain has the most strength.

The more I look at this, the more I think they traded the wrong guy.

 

[blue9]

LOL... Your blind hate for Aminu makes you think we should have kept Vonleh and what, pay him....??

Aminu is 3x the player Vonleh is...

Please stop with this crap narrative...

No. Just no.

 

[blue9]

Surely you don't think this is correct. Ed is a league leader in rebounding off the bench, and a very effective NBA player. Vonleh isn't.

I thought the sarcasm was clear.
But Vonleh was a very good rebounder and defender, too.

 

[blue9]