Trade Blazers trade away Noah Vonleh

[jlprk]

Art Fleming: Today's Jeopardy answer is...Olshey!

Contestant A: Who got what proved to be terrible value for Batum?
Contestant B: Who wasted 2 1/2 years training that player?
Contestant C: Who wasted the summer not getting something for a forward, after he drafted 2 1st-round forwards?
Contestant D: Who waited until the last moment and had to pay his way out, after being cornered like a rat?
Contestant E: Who did everything right?

Alex Trebak: Stop, stop! You're all going to the Bahamas! Except you, Crane!

 

[jlprk]

If they really believed in Vonleh they wouldn’t have drafted Biggie in the first place. It wouldn’t have made sense.

What a well-crafted proof that our Brain Trust was right. I gotta hand it to ya.

If A were wrong, they wouldn't have done B, forcing them to do C. Therefore, C is right.

not X --> not Y --> Z. Therefore, Z.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

It's hard to look at the Noah Vonleh experience as anything but a complete failure. We gave him 109 starts on a playoff level team, with the hope that he would turn into a quality player. Toward the end he really was turning the corner, but Aminu got healthy and we decided to put our eggs in the Collins basket. I think the Blazers realized Vonleh and Collins were probably similar caliber players currently, and Collins was going to be dirt cheap for another 3 years and had more upside.

After all that time and energy invested in him, it's pretty depressing to see him get dumped as a cost-saving measure.

In hindsight we should have given all of Vonleh's minutes last year to guys like Pat and Napier. Forget about traditional 4's and just roll out 4 guards and Nurk.

It's depressing because as you said he seemed to start to turn the corner. Then they stopped playing him and killed whatever value he had. They're complete morons.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

He was going to be gone at the end of the season anyway. His contract was up and the Blazers have way too many power forwards on the roster to justify spending money on renewing Noah, particularly when they need to re-sign Nurkic and doing that is going to put them well into LT again. It was a numbers game and neither the minutes or the dollars were there for Noah.

Then maybe we should have drafted a SF instead of Swanigan?

 

[e_blazer]

Then maybe we should have drafted a SF instead of Swanigan?

Or maybe they thought Swanigan was the best player available and knew Noah wasn’t on their long term plan anyway?

 

[Denny Crane]

Then after the draft, Olshey should have gotten value for one of our excess of forwards (e.g. Vonleh).



So predictable, that after the draft, Olshey should have gotten value for one of our excess of forwards (e.g. Vonleh).

Or, don't you believe in planning ahead.

If Vonleh had a break out season, you would be complaining about that.

The tread deadline is a tool to get under the LT. He did plan to use it and he did use it.

Again, this was completely predictable and well played by NO.

NO did get value. We kept our powder dry for the time when we will be paying the LT. We're not subject to the harsh penalties of the CBA as a taxpayer team for another season.

 

[Denny Crane]

They traded for the 2nd round picks... Johnny Bryant was cheap filler, much like Layman would be.

Layman's contract is not guaranteed until Jun 30, 2018. By not paying him, the Blazers save $1.5M in salary next season. I don't believe NO wanted to eliminate that flexibility.

 

[BlayZa]

i'd bet one of the key KPI's in his incentive structure was to get under the lux cap.

 

[jlprk]

If Vonleh had a break out season, you would be complaining about that.

I'd complain if Vonleh had turned into a top Blazer? Huh? Nonsequitur.

Again, this was completely predictable and well played by NO.

The self-created emergency was predictable? Duh. This board has anticipated it for months.

Olshey had almost 8 months to do something after drafting 2 forwards. As usual, he created his own problem, waited till the last minute, dealt with it like a cornered rat, and the board fanboys pat him on his furry little back.

 

[BlayZa]

also, just on NVL's time here.

he did ok.

he completely blew out when they started him, and never really turned the corner. he had glimpses of 'awesome' but mostly when playing with nurk to enable his game more, and im just not sure that's gonna cut it as a PF in today's NBA.
he always tried hard too, but really i dont think we had the system or gameplan to really allow him to flourish. tbh i have no idea what that system would look like, but it isnt this.

i started out with say, 8/10 hope he could be decent, to 3/10, to 5/10 - aka half a chance he could be ok. that isnt really enough.

im fine with him being moved in the end, as he really wasnt going to move any needle for us.

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, its just another in the line of failed experiments. i just hope he doesnt go all jermaine o'neil on us......

 

[Denny Crane]

I'd complain if Vonleh had turned into a top Blazer? Huh? Nonsequitur.



The self-created emergency was predictable? Duh. This board has anticipated it for months.

Olshey had almost 8 months to do something after drafting 2 forwards. As usual, he created his own problem, waited till the last minute, dealt with it like a cornered rat, and the board fanboys pat him on his furry little back.

There was no emergency.

He created no problems. He pieced together the jigsaw puzzle quite nicely.

The two forwards he drafted are too young and inexperienced to be expected to contribute right away. We need guys like Ed Davis and even Vonleh to contribute minutes. Swanigan couldn't win a spot in the rotation for his play. He ended up in the G league. I don't think counting on G league talent in the rotation is how you win. Developing that talent into rotation players over 2-3 years is the right plan.

Vonleh showed steady by slow progression toward being an NBA rotation player. I think the hope was for more. He was given every chance, including right up to the trade deadline.

If NO had traded him away and he did blossom elsewhere this season, you would have complained. Not non sequitur.

 

[BonesJones]

Layman's contract is not guaranteed until Jun 30, 2018. By not paying him, the Blazers save $1.5M in salary next season. I don't believe NO wanted to eliminate that flexibility.

Lmao. Seriously? NO would have to fill Layman's spot with someone making about as much, so what are you talking abaout? $400K in flexibility for a team $20M over the cap?

 

[BrianFromWA]

What a well-crafted proof that our Brain Trust was right. I gotta hand it to ya.

If A were wrong, they wouldn't have done B, forcing them to do C. Therefore, C is right.

not X --> not Y --> Z. Therefore, Z.

It makes it easier to understand you if I think of you as a giant NAND gate.

 

[riverman]

What a well-crafted proof that our Brain Trust was right. I gotta hand it to ya.

If A were wrong, they wouldn't have done B, forcing them to do C. Therefore, C is right.

not X --> not Y --> Z. Therefore, Z.

 

[jlprk]

Or maybe they thought Swanigan was the best player available and knew Noah wasn’t on their long term plan anyway?

You admit that Olshey knew long in advance, but did nothing till he had to pay a team to solve his oversupply of forwards. Was his motive a lack of skill, or just laziness?

If NO had traded him away and he did blossom elsewhere this season, you would have complained.

Or any season. Vonleh will last for years. He is a competent player outside of Stotts' system, and Olshey got nothing for him.

 

[jlprk]

The two forwards he drafted are too young and inexperienced to be expected to contribute right away. We need guys like Ed Davis and even Vonleh to contribute minutes. Swanigan couldn't win a spot in the rotation for his play. He ended up in the G league. I don't think counting on G league talent in the rotation is how you win. Developing that talent into rotation players over 2-3 years is the right plan.

Vonleh showed steady by slow progression toward being an NBA rotation player. I think the hope was for more. He was given every chance, including right up to the trade deadline.

This belated excuse verifies that Olshey is incompetent.

I guess you've never managed anything, but there are 2 kinds of managers. One kind spends all day stomping out fires he didn't anticipate. The other kind sees into the future a couple of days and does preventive work all the time. (I taught this "see into the future" to my new accounting graduates in the 80s. I should have fired those fucks.)

Olshey drafted 2 forwards last summer, unbalancing the roster with one too many forwards, forcing one too few guards. Then he had 8 months to trade a forward. He did so an hour before the trade deadline, forcing him to pay a team to take a good player.

You say, "But he needed those 8 months to observe Vonleh during Vonleh's THIRD season here. Olshey lacked the skill to decide after only TWO Blazer seasons, including one STARTING Vonleh. Poor Olshey didn't get 8 seasons, like he's getting to evaluate Meyers Leonard." Well send him flowers. But FIRE him.

 

[jlprk]

P.S. I know you've managed people, Denny. Don't let visitors bring anything sharp or they will carve up their mattresses. You've done well developing your moderators, except 4 or 5.

 

[Denny Crane]

Lmao. Seriously? NO would have to fill Layman's spot with someone making about as much, so what are you talking abaout? $400K in flexibility for a team $20M over the cap?

Minimum salary is 1/2 what Layman makes.

$1 over means tax rules apply, so every dollar counts.

 

[Denny Crane]

This belated excuse verifies that Olshey is incompetent.

I guess you've never managed anything, but there are 2 kinds of managers. One kind spends all day stomping out fires he didn't anticipate. The other kind sees into the future a couple of days and does preventive work all the time. (I taught this "see into the future" to my new accounting graduates in the 80s. I should have fired those fucks.)

Olshey drafted 2 forwards last summer, unbalancing the roster with one too many forwards, forcing one too few guards. Then he had 8 months to trade a forward. He did so an hour before the trade deadline, forcing him to pay a team to take a good player.

You say, "But he needed those 8 months to observe Vonleh during Vonleh's THIRD season here. Olshey lacked the skill to decide after only TWO Blazer seasons, including one STARTING Vonleh. Poor Olshey didn't get 8 seasons, like he's getting to evaluate Meyers Leonard." Well send him flowers. But FIRE him.

CJ scored 6.8 PPG after his 2nd season. Good thing he was given a chance - the same kind of chance Vonleh was given. And Crabbe, too, for that matter.

The trade deadline is a tool, and NO used it exceptionally well.

Batum? He's being paid $120M over 5 seasons, and the Hornets couldn't give him away at the deadline. We'd have 3 guys making $75M of the $99M salary cap, fans hating on him worse than they do ET, and we'd still have a tough time getting out of the 1st round. And he's really helped those Hornets become contenders in the weaker East.

Our forward depth was so lacking last playoffs we were starting Leonard at C and didn't play a C when he wasn't in the game.

Your proposals are like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

Thank god you're not the GM.

 

[jlprk]

None of that post is related to what I wrote, which saves me a lot of time, not having to respond. I might get something done today afterall.

 

[TBpup]

Like Stotts knows what to do with a big man. Outside of Davis who only has one skill and a 3' range around the hoop, every big man under Stotts seems to have declined the longer he was here. Declined and/or played softer and farther from the basket. Leonard, Nurkic and now Collins. Vonleh actually managed to improve but his minutes were so sporadic and undefined even when he was starting, to me that is not how to develop a 20 year old.

Even when starter, he played 15 minutes or less in 32 of the first 42 games last year. That means he would start the the game play around 7 minutes and then come out and not get back in for the rest of the half. The same thing may be repeated in the 2nd half but sometimes he never got back in the game at all. Since they were never running any plays for him, I'm not exactly sure how he was supposed to develop much or gain a lot of confidence with those types of roller coaster minutes.

For what he got, I thought he performed quite well.

 

[e_blazer]

You admit that Olshey knew long in advance, but did nothing till he had to pay a team to solve his oversupply of forwards.

Apparently, you have some confusion about the grammatical significance of the question mark. I don’t know the thinking of Blazers management with respect to Vonleh at the beginning of the season. I do suspect that at the end of the trade deadline, they were stuck needing to lose $3M of salary and his contract was a fit. Maybe they tried other moves and couldn’t get anything to work and had to settle for this one. Maybe they just thought that with so many other PFs on the roster, this was the best move at this point. Sometimes teams have to make tough choices.

 

[jlprk]

I don’t know the thinking of Blazers management with respect to Vonleh at the beginning of the season.

You're not the only one. Nobody can fathom it.

I do suspect that at the end of the trade deadline, they were stuck needing to lose $3M of salary and his contract was a fit.

Must have been a terrible surprise. Who was the bad guy who came into the room and stuck them?

Sometimes teams have to make tough choices.

Especially when they're too unskilled to think ahead.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Harsh headline!

 

[Boob-No-More]

Harsh headline!

Ouch, damn the New York media is rough.

I wish Noah well, playing for an irrelevant team in an irrelevant conference. He seems like a good dude.

BNM

 

[BBert]

Harsh headline!

Jezus. Meyers better not ever sign with a NYC team, LOL

 

[Orion Bailey]

Jezus. Meyers better not ever sign with a NYC team, LOL

“Complete and absolute bust Meyers gets one last minute miracle to extend his bench warming skills before his beach volleyball career kickstarts.”

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Which Noah gets more minutes next year--Joakim or Vonleh?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Which Noah gets more minutes next year--Joakim or Vonleh?

Vonleh.

 

[Hobbesarable]

Jezus. Meyers better not ever sign with a NYC team, LOL

He would be blocking all over the place.











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