Blazers trade the #7 pick for.....?

[SharpesTriumph]

I think Cronin will trade the #7 for Grant and ?

Hopefully ? is better than scrubs. After Cronin negotiation skills from the Clippers trade, I'm not expecting a good deal.

 

[blazerfan11]

I don't see him going anywhere. The whole max deal is negotiating positioning.
Question? Is Ja Morant worth a max deal?

What is his value in a trade?
Morant is not a good 3-point shooter and we've seen how important that is in the playoffs. He's not a good defender either. He's famous , though.
What if they could trade him to Indiana for Tyrese Haliburton and the #6 pick?

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

Ayton is the only “gettable” center closer to elite — a really short list, by the way — who has enough O to go with his D.
Bam is really good and would be great to have but he’s a #3 at best on O. And this is fine. Winning basketball. Ayton is in a “situation” that brings the chatter …

Would Dame, Ayton, Grant, Simons be enough to contend? Maybe.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Would Dame, Ayton, Grant, Simons be enough to contend? Maybe.

No.

Who is the second best player on that team; Grant? Ayton? That is not a duo that can contend.

The Suns couldn't win it all when Ayton was the 5th option. You think he'll lead a team to contend as the second?

 

[blazerfan11]

With the game as it is, a guard and wing duo looks best as #1 and #2 on the team. No argument from me. Boston is right there. Using Denver as an example should include their injury issues for a couple years. They and Philly should be the outliers other teams DON’T follow. Utah has a guard-center spat they aren’t getting over.

The essential argument is a team doesn’t need an elite or Tier 2 center making $$$ to contend. With the Nurkic (and other) untimely injuries, it’s an easy excuse on not getting back to the WCF. More reasonable on the early exits? Sub-par forwards who are neither stoppers nor consistent, significant scorers. Having a short, no-D pound-the-rock SG made the problems more visible. [Dame isn’t tall, but he’s not small.]

The only question for me is whether Ayton is good enough to be that #2 who hedges, gets back and covers the corner 3. I’d take him over Gobert in a heartbeat.

The important thing, if you have a center who has talent but isn't Embiid or Jokic, get him the fucking ball where he can score!! One of the great things that happened after the trade deadline is that our team, especially Justise Winslow, made a concerted effort to get Nurkic the ball in good scoring position. That seems to be a lost art in the NBA now. Lots of teams don't even try to get easy buckets with their centers.
Looking at the stats when the win streak started (February 9th) to the end of the season , I expected Anfernee Simons or Josh Hart to have the highest true shooting percentage on the team, but No. It was Jusuf Nurkic at 66%.

 

[Ed O]

The important thing, if you have a center who has talent but isn't Embiid or Jokic, get him the fucking ball where he can score!! One of the great things that happened after the trade deadline is that our team, especially Justise Winslow, made a concerted effort to get Nurkic the ball in good scoring position. That seems to be a lost art in the NBA now. Lots of teams don't even try to get easy buckets with their centers.

The thing is that it's a lost art because it's not smart basketball in the NBA.

Why feed your big guy so he can shoot 60% when you have guys who can shoot 35% from three pointers? Why clog the paint with a big guy when you could have the floor stretched and layups be easier?

Jokic and Embiid are amazing players that pass and can shoot from deep... and it's still questionable if they're as valuable (dollar for dollar) as top-tier smaller guys. It might just be coincidence that they are at home right now, but it also might speak to the way the teams are constructed.

Also, about Golden State: pointing that they drafted Wiseman isn't really relevant. The team is winning in spite of getting NOTHING from him, which just reinforces that top-flight centers aren't needed to succeed.

About Ayton: giving up value for him and then paying him like a top-flight center would be a disaster IMO.

 

[BIG Q]

Ayton is the only “gettable” center closer to elite — a really short list, by the way — who has enough O to go with his D.
Bam is really good and would be great to have but he’s a #3 at best on O. And this is fine. Winning basketball. Ayton is in a “situation” that brings the chatter …

Would Dame, Ayton, Grant, Simons be enough to contend? Maybe.

My question back would be what was given up to acquire Ayton and Grant? I think Hart would get the Ayton deal done with maybe the Bucks pick. Suns have no leverage and I really think they burned their bridge with Ayton. If they do not trade him, I expect him not to sign with them and walk after next season. I could be wrong. As for Grant, personally I would not give up our 7 for him.

 

[Hoopguru]

The important thing, if you have a center who has talent but isn't Embiid or Jokic, get him the fucking ball where he can score!! One of the great things that happened after the trade deadline is that our team, especially Justise Winslow, made a concerted effort to get Nurkic the ball in good scoring position. That seems to be a lost art in the NBA now. Lots of teams don't even try to get easy buckets with their centers.
Looking at the stats when the win streak started (February 9th) to the end of the season , I expected Anfernee Simons or Josh Hart to have the highest true shooting percentage on the team, but No. It was Jusuf Nurkic at 66%.

Yep and if the Suns blew it by not getting Ayton involved rather than die by the three which they did.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

My question back would be what was given up to acquire Ayton and Grant? I think Hart would get the Ayton deal done with maybe the Bucks pick. Suns have no leverage and I really think they burned their bridge with Ayton. If they do not trade him, I expect him not to sign with them and walk after next season. I could be wrong. As for Grant, personally I would not give up our 7 for him.

Is Ayton on a huge max contract worth Hart, the Bucks pick and Nurk walking? I'd say heck no.

But who knows with Cronin, maybe its something the Blazers would do.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

#7 + Nurk for Ayton in a S&T is a drastic overpay, especially when Phoenix has little to no leverage in the situation.

underpay

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

The thing is that it's a lost art because it's not smart basketball in the NBA.

Why feed your big guy so he can shoot 60% when you have guys who can shoot 35% from three pointers? Why clog the paint with a big guy when you could have the floor stretched and layups be easier?
[…]
Also, about Golden State: pointing that they drafted Wiseman isn't really relevant. The team is winning in spite of getting NOTHING from him, which just reinforces that top-flight centers aren't needed to succeed.
About Ayton: giving up value for him and then paying him like a top-flight center would be a disaster IMO.

When Looney is better than Wiseman, that’s not their game. And a top center isn’t NEEDED for a winning team … I agree. But the signs point to Ayton’s availability … there’s plenty of chatter down here in AZ.

Ayton is good in the paint on O — and not just at the hoop. Ayton gets 12+ on 10 shots while the Mo Harkless of centers gets 10.5 from 3? And Ayton gets O-Rebs being closer in AND should be getting to the line. I’m not saying go get any “top” center and fork over $30 million. Nurkic tops out in a totally different neighborhood in a lower tier. And Gobert is significantly overpaid as a distant #4 option on O. Ayton’s just better, IMHO. Yes, he can be option #2. For me, with centers, it’s a small list on a contending team where the C is, or should be, #2.

 

[blazerfan11]

Is Ayton on a huge max contract worth Hart, the Bucks pick and Nurk walking? I'd say heck no.

But who knows with Cronin, maybe its something the Blazers would do.

I don't think Ayton could be had for that.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

When Looney is better than Wiseman, that’s not their game. And a top center isn’t NEEDED for a winning team … I agree. But the signs point to Ayton’s availability … there’s plenty of chatter down here in AZ.

Ayton is good in the paint on O — and not just at the hoop. Ayton gets 12+ on 10 shots while the Mo Harkless of centers gets 10.5 from 3? And Ayton gets O-Rebs being closer in AND should be getting to the line. I’m not saying go get any “top” center and fork over $30 million. Nurkic tops out in a totally different neighborhood in a lower tier. And Gobert is significantly overpaid as a distant #4 option on O. Ayton’s just better, IMHO. Yes, he can be option #2. For me, with centers, it’s a small list on a contending team where the C is, or should be, #2.

Why didn't Phoenix win when Ayton was #5 then?

 

[damianlillard]

I don't think Ayton could be had for that.

You never know. Suns already don’t wanna pay him, either they’re gonna have to pay him or swallow and their pride and take a crappy offer lol. If I was the blazers gm I would offer Ayton max, and if the suns want to make a deal only Nurkic is on the table. Suns are in a crappy spot, don’t give into the pressure

 

[blazerfan11]

Ayton is about to be 24 years old and had a true shooting percentage of 63% last season.

When Looney is better than Wiseman, that’s not their game. And a top center isn’t NEEDED for a winning team … I agree. But the signs point to Ayton’s availability … there’s plenty of chatter down here in AZ.

Ayton is good in the paint on O — and not just at the hoop. Ayton gets 12+ on 10 shots while the Mo Harkless of centers gets 10.5 from 3? And Ayton gets O-Rebs being closer in AND should be getting to the line. I’m not saying go get any “top” center and fork over $30 million. Nurkic tops out in a totally different neighborhood in a lower tier. And Gobert is significantly overpaid as a distant #4 option on O. Ayton’s just better, IMHO. Yes, he can be option #2. For me, with centers, it’s a small list on a contending team where the C is, or should be, #2.

He's also just 1 year older than Anfernee Simons. Ayton is almost 24 and Simons is almost 23 years old. Those two could have good careers together.

 

[damianlillard]

Why didn't Phoenix win when Ayton was #5 then?

Cause everyone above him choked

 

[blazerfan11]

What would the Blazers need to do to be able to offer Ayton a max deal?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

The thing is that it's a lost art because it's not smart basketball in the NBA.

Why feed your big guy so he can shoot 60% when you have guys who can shoot 35% from three pointers?

Because 1.2 points per shot is better than 1.05?

Why clog the paint with a big guy when you could have the floor stretched and layups be easier?

Because the big guy could collapse the defense, making 3-point shots easier?

Jokic and Embiid are amazing players that pass and can shoot from deep... and it's still questionable if they're as valuable (dollar for dollar) as top-tier smaller guys. It might just be coincidence that they are at home right now, but it also might speak to the way the teams are constructed.

Both of those teams have their top-flight center as the primary offensive option. Our top-tier smaller guy is ours.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

Sign and trade is the way for Ayton. I’ve seen numbers crunched. 3-teamers. What other teams could do, instead. BUT the reasonable thinking against $30 million centers who don’t shoot 3’s will be the same league-wide. Few teams, IMHO are in a place to do a deal AND Ayton has to want it, too.

I’d rather see the forward spots fixed … but don’t see a veteran star. Maybe a couple #3 options (Anunoby and Grant, for instance).

 

[SharpesTriumph]

What would the Blazers need to do to be able to offer Ayton a max deal?

The Blazers basically have to do a sign and trade. Someone had a good post on it here because of Ayton BYC, but basically they have to receive ~$41 million in salary so Ayton plus something else and send out likely Nurk and another player. Probably have to renounce the trade exception.

If the Blazers are going to also do another trade for a veteran (Grant, Woods, Randle, OG, etc) it might have to all be done in one single trade to get the salaries to match up. The tricky part is the Blazers have to first draft #7 (which likely has to be part of such a trade) but then cant agree to a deal with Ayton until July.

So it might be very hard to get all parties to agree to both. And once there are multiple parties negotiating, we've seen how Cronin move is to just give everything away.

 

[blazerfan11]

You never know. Suns already don’t wanna pay him, either they’re gonna have to pay him or swallow and their pride and take a crappy offer lol. If I was the blazers gm I would offer Ayton max, and if the suns want to make a deal only Nurkic is on the table. Suns are in a crappy spot, don’t give into the pressure

Can the Blazers offer him a max deal?

Because 1.2 points per shot is better than 1.05?


Because the big guy could collapse the defense, making 3-point shots easier?


Both of those teams have their top-flight center as the primary offensive option. Our top-tier smaller guy is ours.

The problem with relying on 3-point shooting is obvious. You need to have a way to get high-percentage two point shots as well.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Can the Blazers offer him a max deal?

The problem with relying on 3-point shooting is obvious. You need to have a way to get high-percentage two point shots as well.

Perhaps there's value in balance, eh?

 

[blazerkor]

I honestly think with the emergence of Daniels, there is a serious dropoff after 7. So I think that the Spurs will be willing to trade us 9 and 25 for 7. I'm hoping we get Sochan at 9 and can get Grant for 25 and maybe just include giving Detroit their 2025 second back as well but I'm afraid Joe might overpay and give Detroit 25 and the Bucks first.

If Joe doesn't overpay and we get Sochan and Grant without giving up the Bucks pick. I then think that Nurk and the Bucks pick would be enough to obtain Ayton as far as the Suns are concerned but I don't know how the salary matching works out at that point because if the Suns can re-sign Ayton for what Nurk's salary is going to be then they'll just do that.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

FYI, y'all..

 

[Freshtown]

FYI, y'all..

hopefully it’s not 7 for randle. Only acceptable trade for randle would be 7 and bledsoe for 11 and Randle.

I would be ok moving down a few spots for Randle, but not giving up our lottery pick for him.

 

[Idog1976]

hopefully it’s not 7 for randle. Only acceptable trade for randle would be 7 and bledsoe for 11 and Randle.

I would be ok moving down a few spots for Randle, but not giving up our lottery pick for him.

Getting Randle and #11 would be incredible. Then you could draft Duren, Sochan or Eason at #11 one of them will be available or maybe a hail mary mega drop by a better prospect. That's a trade I'd actually be straight-up stoked about. I'd even consider the #11 for Grant.

Lillard
Simons
Grant/ or Sochan/ or Eason
Randle
Nurk/ or Duren

That's pretty damn solid!

Also, if you draft Duren you could try and do an S&T of Nurk for a wing which I think is possible especially if you throw in the Buck's 1st. With Duren having a rookie scale salary, especially at the #11 pick, we also free up salary for the 5 that is currently going to Nurk. I like it!

 

[Natebishop3]

Getting Randle and #11 would be incredible. Then you could draft Duren, Sochan or Eason at #11 one of them will be available or maybe a hail mary mega drop by a better prospect. That's a trade I'd actually be straight-up stoked about. I'd even consider the #11 for Grant.

Lillard
Simons
Grant/ or Sochan/ or Eason
Randle
Nurk/ or Duren

That's pretty damn solid!

Also, if you draft Duren you could try and do an S&T of Nurk for a wing which I think is possible especially if you throw in the Buck's 1st. With Duren having a rookie scale salary, especially at the #11 pick, we also free up salary for the 5 that is currently going to Nurk. I like it!

I think the pick would be Sochan or Eason, but honestly I don't think Sochan lasts beyond the Spurs.

But I really don't see it working with Dame/Grant/Randle. Especially since Grant thinks of himself as some kind of superstar.

 

[illmatic99]

FYI, y'all..

if we can get him without giving up 7 or if he comes with 11, i'm in. i know some question the basketball fit, but i genuinely think it can work

 

[RR7]

If we're trading the pick, I hope it's initially with many trade downs to gather extra assets. 7 for 9 and 20. 9 for 12 and 30 or a future first. 12 and 20 for 13 and 15. 15 for 22 and 29. Etc.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If we're trading the pick, I hope it's initially with many trade downs to gather extra assets. 7 for 9 and 20. 9 for 12 and 30 or a future first. 12 and 20 for 13 and 15. 15 for 22 and 29. Etc.

I composed and deleted nearly an identical post earlier today.