Zombie Blow this team up

[BBert]

I'm of the opinion you have to be good before you can become great.

This. It seems like some people want a magic bullet that goes from Lottery to Champion in a single bound. As in, if we are merely good, that's called purgatory, and it's time to start over. And over.

There is a lot of luck in sports. We were basically a made basket and some biased officiating from a championship in 2000. The Blazers looked like they would be perennial contenders when they assembled the Roy/Aldridge/Oden team, but then blown knees happened. The Aldridge/Dame/Wes/Nick team was very strong...then an injury...and a defection...and a reboot...and we still managed to get to the second round the following year. Now that the Blazers are playing down to their actual talent level, our heightened expectations are getting the better of us.

I for one am rooting for the team to try improving the team through trades that don't send us on a downward path to perennial lottery team. Although, we may hit the lottery just fine this year with the roster we have, LOL. Which would still put us in a position to make trades.

Keep the faith, brothers and sisters!

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yep, and in the first 30 years of the draft lottery, only 8 franchises won an NBA title, and none of them were perennial cellar dwellers.

BNM

Did all of them have at least one high lottery pick on their roster?

 

[roroyo]

The 2000 Blazers were not only "contenders," they were very close to winning it all.

The 2014-15 team was in contention, too. Second in the West with a great record until Wes Matthews was injured.

The current team is not doing well, that's certainly true. And yeah, that's not a ton of success over the past 20-30 years, though a potential golden era was taken away by injuries to Roy and Oden.

Again, forgive my english. I'm gettin emotional, but unfortunately can't finds words and grammar

Yeah, loved 2000 Blazers, but did they make the finals? Even if they were very close to winning it all they wer contenders for very short time. Nice times and I know you both want to prove me I don't belong here but I think you missin the point. Team we have now is bunch of kids who are (as Davis stated in preseason) "millioners" and don't give a shh about fans as much as Bonzi Wells didn't. At least he said that. Blazers now are talkin bout "clearing the air" and they think they will go away with it. Blazers never made me that angry. Washington game was too much for me at halftime. I was curious if anything happen after the game, but Lillard was all in smiles - such a good time to make millions shoting threes. So again, blow it, let Damian go do his rap in California, glue, built around CJ, just because no one gives a shit about the game in this team.

 

[Minstrel]

Nice times and I know you both want to prove me I don't belong here

Believe me, if you're down on the team, you belong here.

On a more serious note, you do have to be more prepared to accept disagreement with your views and not take it personally, if you want to enjoy posting here. Because there are people with all sorts of perspectives and you will be disagreed with a lot. All of us are.

 

[roroyo]

It's embarrassing I forgot how good the team was with Detlef hitting 3s. Sorry, my bad. Ill probably make a lot more mistakes on my way here.
It was almost 20 years ago, you know, and I feel we swimin in mediocrity for ever.
And I don't buy this "buildin the culture" stuff. That's not what sport is about. Sport is about gettin f angry on the court. And this team is never angry. That's why they make me so angry

 

[Boob-No-More]

Did all of them have at least one high lottery pick on their roster?

Not that they drafted. Most high lottery picks that do win titles, do so for one of the teams they play for after the team that drafted them (Shaq, KG, Pau, Bosh, LeBron - in MIA, Payton, Sheed, Billups, Lamar Odom, Tyson Chandler, Shaun Livingston, Bogut, Kevin Love, etc.).

In the first 30 years of the draft lottery, the list of players taken in the top 4 in the draft that have won NBA championships is astonishingly small. Since the inception of the draft lottery, the list of players taken in the top 4 that have won titles for the team that drafted them is almost non-existent. And even that is skewed by LeBron moving from MIA and back to CLE, where he teamed up with multiple other top 4 picks in both locations, to win titles.

Even Duncan in SAS was a unique case. That was a 60-win team team with one other former No. 1 draft pick and future first ballot Hall of Famer that happened to dip into the lottery for one year, due to an injury to that player, only to grab anther No. 1 overall pick who will also be a future first ballot Hall of Famer.

Until last June, Darko Milicic was the only top 4 draft pick since Tim Duncan to win an NBA title with the team that drafted him - and he wasn't a factor in that championship.

BNM

 

[noknobs]

Again, forgive my english. I'm gettin emotional, but unfortunately can't finds words and grammar

You'll fit right in.

Team we have now is bunch of kids who are (as Davis stated in preseason) "millioners" and don't give a shh about fans as much as Bonzi Wells didn't. At least he said that. Blazers now are talkin bout "clearing the air" and they think they will go away with it. Blazers never made me that angry. Washington game was too much for me at halftime. I was curious if anything happen after the game, but Lillard was all in smiles - such a good time to make millions shoting threes. So again, blow it, let Damian go do his rap in California, glue, built around CJ, just because no one gives a shit about the game in this team.

As you said they're basically kids. Despite how much several of them got paid last summer, they're still tied for the 2nd youngest team in the NBA. It's easy to forget that.

I think it's very unfair to say they don't give a shit, especially Lillard. They aren't at all good at defense but that doesn't mean they don't care.

 

[roroyo]

You'll fit right in.



As you said they're basically kids. Despite how much several of them got paid last summer, they're still tied for the 2nd youngest team in the NBA. It's easy to forget that.

I think it's very unfair to say they don't give a shit, especially Lillard. They aren't at all good at defense but that doesn't mean they don't care.

Would rather see them kicking stuff around after such game. Thats all.
And hope they prove me wrong tonite. But somehow I doubt it.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Not that they drafted. Most high lottery picks that do win titles, do so for one of the teams they play for after the team that drafted them (Shaq, KG, Pau, Bosh, LeBron - in MIA, Payton, Sheed, Billups, Lamar Odom, Tyson Chandler, Shaun Livingston, Bogut, Kevin Love, etc.).

In the first 30 years of the draft lottery, the list of players taken in the top 4 in the draft that have won NBA championships is astonishingly small. Since the inception of the draft lottery, the list of players taken in the top 4 that have won titles for the team that drafted them is almost non-existent. And even that is skewed by LeBron moving from MIA and back to CLE, where he teamed up with multiple other top 4 picks in both locations, to win titles.

Even Duncan in SAS was a unique case. That was a 60-win team team with one other former No. 1 draft pick and future first ballot Hall of Famer that happened to dip into the lottery for one year, due to an injury to that player, only to grab anther No. 1 overall pick who will also be a future first ballot Hall of Famer.

Until last June, Darko Milicic was the only top 4 draft pick since Tim Duncan to win an NBA title with the team that drafted him - and he wasn't a factor in that championship.

BNM

So stay the course?

 

[noknobs]

Would rather see them kicking stuff around after such game. Thats all.
And hope they prove me wrong tonite. But somehow I doubt it.

You don't know they didn't. People see a two second clip on TV and read too much into it. Just because they lost doesn't mean they're not entitled to smile again until they win.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Believe me, if you're down on the team, you belong here.

On a more serious note, you do have to be more prepared to accept disagreement with your views and not take it personally, if you want to enjoy posting here. Because there are people with all sorts of perspectives and you will be disagreed with a lot. All of us are.

That's bullshit and I COMPLETELY disagree with that near felonious statement!

I have the correct perspective on everything and you all are just trying to keep up.

 

[BonesJones]

If PHI was willing to trade is theirs and LALs 1st for CJ and Crabbe Id do it. Three top 10 picks in a loaded draft? Yes please

 

[Boob-No-More]

So stay the course?

Of course not. Make some trades. Even if it means taking a chance on someone with a less than choir boy reputation (like Nerlens Noel). Be bold and daring. So far, Olshey's trades have been low risk, with upside. He got some good pieces for cheap, but now we need to turn some of those good pieces into some great pieces. Time for a high risk, high reward trade, or two.

BNM

 

[Mediocre Man]

If PHI was winning to trade is theirs and LALs 1st for CJ and Crabbe Id do it. Three 1st round picks in a loaded draft? Yes please

As long as there is not another pick like the great white hype.

 

[BonesJones]

As long as there is not another pick like the great white hype.

They'd all be top 10 so nope!

 

[Mediocre Man]

They'd all be top 10 so nope!

Aminu over Heyward and George

Traded Baron Davis and number 1 overall pick for Jamario Moon and Mo Williams

Drafted Lillard (our staff already identified him before Neil was hired), and Leonar_

Drafted McCollum

So assuming Lillard was already PA's pick....since he was, Olsey is 1 for 4 on using lottery picks correctly.

This team needs an overhaul, needs to do it through the draft because we can't attract difference making FA's, and has a GM that misses more than hits in the early part of the draft.

That's where this franchise is at.

Everyone likes to call out the neggative posters, but are we wrong?

 

[roroyo]

Maybe we're tanking but players can't admit it openly? Lillard almost made me belive him when he said how hard it is and they trying hard but cant work it out. But then I realize how many time I used this kind of bullshh in my work when I was lazy youngster. IDK nothing at this point. Guess need to wait till deadline and see.

 

[BonesJones]

Aminu over Heyward and George

Traded Baron Davis and number 1 overall pick for Jamario Moon and Mo Williams

Drafted Lillard (our staff already identified him before Neil was hired), and Leonar_

Drafted McCollum

So assuming Lillard was already PA's pick....since he was, Olsey is 1 for 4 on using lottery picks correctly.

This team needs an overhaul, needs to do it through the draft because we can't attract difference making FA's, and has a GM that misses more than hits in the early part of the draft.

That's where this franchise is at.

Everyone likes to call out the neggative posters, but are we wrong?

Idk how you can count Lillard as a "miss". You could count him as bad "Doesn't count" but not as bad "miss". Therefore, he's 1 for 3. Also l, that pick was supposed to be 10th, and he was trying to get rid of Davis. That was when most GMs didn't really protect their picks.

We need to build through the draft. That's the only way for us to get stars, and right now our stars don't play defense, and we have no flexibility to get that much better. If we want to win a ring with Dame, were probably gonna have to trade CJ.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Idk how you can count Lillard as a "miss". You could count him as bad "Doesn't count" but not as bad "miss". Therefore, he's 1 for 3. Also l, that pick was supposed to be 10th, and he was trying to get rid of Davis. That was when most GMs didn't really protect their picks.

We need to build through the draft. That's the only way for us to get stars, and right now our stars don't play defense, and we have no flexibility to get that much better. If we want to win a ring with Dame, were probably gonna have to trade CJ.

I didn't count him as a miss. I counted him as nothing because PA had been sold on him by the prior staff long before we hired Olshey

 

[BonesJones]

I didn't count him as a miss. I counted him as nothing because PA had been sold on him by the prior staff long before we hired Olshey

I miscounted

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Prior to 1999, however, every title for 19 years (except for the 83 Sixers) was won by a team with a player drafted by that team in the top 3. Jordan, Olajuwon, Magic, Isiah, McHale.

If PHI was winning to trade is theirs and LALs 1st for CJ and Crabbe Id do it. Three top 10 picks in a loaded draft? Yes please

Assuming they're all between 5-10, and the first 4 off the board are Fultz, Ball, Smith, and Jackson, what 3 players would you pick up in that scenario?

My thought would be Monk, then Isaac, then Markkanen (of course taking Jackson instead of Monk if somehow that were an option).

 

[Minstrel]

Prior to 1999, however, every title for 19 years (except for the 83 Sixers) was won by a team with a player drafted by that team in the top 3. Jordan, Olajuwon, Magic, Isiah, McHale.

Some of that might be the nature of the game then vs. now. While basketball will always be the major pro sport most dominated by singular stars, the game has become less controlled by the best player on a given team (hero ball) and offenses are now generally more distributed affairs as spread passing offenses have taken off.

Not that I'd turn down a Jordan today, but it may be less of a hard requirement to win a title.

 

[BonesJones]

Prior to 1999, however, every title for 19 years (except for the 83 Sixers) was won by a team with a player drafted by that team in the top 3. Jordan, Olajuwon, Magic, Isiah, McHale.

Assuming they're all between 5-10, and the first 4 off the board are Fultz, Ball, Smith, and Jackson, what 3 players would you pick up in that scenario?

My thought would be Monk, then Isaac, then Markkanen (of course taking Jackson instead of Monk if somehow that were an option).

Jayson Tatum is gonna be an all around stud.

First off, if we trade CJ, we'd need to trade Plumlee for a 1st

Let's say we get 5th (PHI), 7th (LAL), 9th (POR), 24th (Plumlee), and 29th (CLE). I think you package 7th, 24th, and 29th (plus filler if needed) to move up to 3 or 4 to take Jackson. Then Tatum at 5, and Anunoby or Giles at 9. If you can't trade up, then you take whichever one of Isaac/Monk is left.

The best case scenario would be to get into the top 2 or 3 by getting lucky in the lottery. Imagine having the 2nd (POR), 5th (PHI), and 7th (PHI) picks. You could trade from 7th up to 4th and have 3 top 5 picks. Imagine Fultz+Jackson+Tatum.

Even without luck, Jackson + Tatum + Giles would be dynamite. That's potentially 3 stars (if Giles can stay healthy). Their rookie-level floor would be at the same level our role players have played at a summer. Even if we had to settle for Monk or Isaac instead of Jackson, it'd still be a great decision.

That's why, if Philly calls, I think you have to trade CJ for those 2 picks. Maybe toss in Crabbe too, and see if they'll give up Noel too.

You could even try trading some salary away to get some $30M in cap room. Sign a couple good starters who can mentor the rookies and you have a good team now, and in the future. There would be no floor.

If you wanted to go all in with the rebuild you could trade Dame for another top 5 pick, a 2018 pick (maybe top 5 as well), and young filler (I personally wouldn't do that though)

 

[Minstrel]

First off, if we trade CJ, we'd need to trade Plumlee for a 1st

Plumlee isn't bringing back a first-round pick as a so-so player who's about to hit free agency. Especially not in a loaded draft.

 

[BonesJones]

Plumlee isn't bringing back a first-round pick as a so-so player who's about to hit free agency. Especially not in a loaded draft.

You're telling me that Toronto, who has no backup center and two late firsts this year, wouldn't trade one of those for Plumlee, who'd be a premier backup C and his salary wouldn't be hard to match?

 

[Minstrel]

You're telling me that Toronto, who has no backup center and two late firsts this year, wouldn't trade one of those for Plumlee, who'd be a premier backup C and his salary wouldn't be hard to match?

Yes, I absolutely don't think they'd give up a first-round pick for a half-season of a backup center. Matching rights is only a valuable commodity on good players, players you fear to lose. Plumlee isn't that type of player. Backup centers aren't extremely hard to come by on the free agent market and Plumlee will likely not be the cheapest of options. They may not even want to match the offers he gets.