"Boom goes the dynamite" Rebuild

[Nikolokolus]

Fair warning, this would cost this team a whole lot of wins in the short term.

If I were Cho and Paul Allen (Vulcan?)

1. I'd fire Nate and name Bernie the interim coach for the rest of the season. This is purely a "change for change's sake" move, just to get a slightly different voice in there.

2. I'd trade Miller, Camby, Oden and/or Joel and get whatever assets I could for them (preferably a decent big or two or a decent youngish point guard).

2a. Nobody is untouchable. Move Nic, Matthews, Armon and/or Babbitt if the right deal comes across your desk ... if you can move Roy or Aldridge for shorter term contracts do it.

3. Shut Roy down if he can't move on defense or severely limit his minutes with the supposition that rest might help in the longterm, or even if it doesn't maybe we'll get something out of him over the life of his contract.

4. Play Matthews, Nic, Luke, Patty and Dante as many minutes as you can give them (aside from the automatic 35 LMA is going to get and whatever other player(s) you might trade for.) Find out what you have with some of these young guys and figure out if they are worth developing, cutting or trading.

and finally ...

5. Ride your 25 or 30 win season into the lottery and take the best player available even if he's a wing ... and view this player as a trade chip.

That's it, that's all I've got -- the nuclear option that assumes that whatever championship aspirations this team had are dead and buried -- if some of the youngsters show enough promise to warrant being kept around then awesome, but that shouldn't rule out a complete overhaul of the roster in order to attain cap flexibility. Because in my opinion there's no worse situation to be in than a mediocre team paying the luxury tax, with longterm (and high dollar) salary commitments with no better than low seed playoff aspirations (see: Pacers, NBA basketball team, 2003-2009).

I admit that this is premature and maybe a bit over the top, but this team just has the feeling of a group that needs a major shakeup and I don't think an on-the-fly retooling is going to cut it; our trade assets feel a little too flimsy or old and the team's top talent is either too risky from a health perspective or locked into too many years to be easily moved in the short term.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

IMO, the franchise will not survive a total blow up like this. You're looking a 4-5 year window to getting into the playoffs with a blowup...perhaps even more. Might as well ride in mediocrity until contracts lapse...take the gamble on Oden and this squad is better than we can do "retooling" or building through the draft.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

If you do blow up the squad, you have to give up this "good citizens" bullshit. How do you feel now about the good guys now that they can't win a game?

 

[Nikolokolus]

If you do blow up the squad, you have to give up this "good citizens" bullshit. How do you feel now about the good guys now that they can't win a game?

I don't recall ever being one of the people advocating for nothing but choir boys ... you just can't have a team of nothing but knuckleheads, or your veteran "leadership" being the ringleader of the knuckleheads.

 

[MickZagger]

I don't recall ever being one of the people advocating for nothing but choir boys ... you just can't have a team of nothing but knuckleheads, or your veteran "leadership" being the ringleader of the knuckleheads.

Bingo! That was always my beef with the Jailblazer era team. I've always been an advocate of somehow getting Stephen Jackson. Everybody around here thinks he's a knucklehead. Finding a happy medium has always been ideal. Jackson won a ring in SA as a starter.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I don't recall ever being one of the people advocating for nothing but choir boys ... you just can't have a team of nothing but knuckleheads, or your veteran "leadership" being the ringleader of the knuckleheads.

I was speaking in general. I think the Blazers have to target offensive stud type players...guys like Danny Granger. Nic is a great defender but he's not an elite scorer, which we kind of need.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

fuck Bickerstaff. Free Caleb!!!!

 

[MickZagger]

fuck Bickerstaff. Free Caleb!!!!

Hell motha fuckin yeehaw!!!

His nickname is the 'Roadrunner'! Rep-re-sinin SW TEjas

 

[Nikolokolus]

fuck Bickerstaff. Free Caleb!!!!

Sure why not. He actually got a bunch of rookies and summer league scrubs to set picks, move off the ball and run. I'm all for it.

 

[Natebishop3]

I've seen sayin Caleb for a month now!

 

[Drttimmy]

I'm pretty sure they'll wait until the deadline before giving up on the season. Joel will probably help quite a bit, even if he is gimpy, because we sorely lack a physical presence and rebounding. And if we just had a shooter or two...like if Rudy returned to his rookie form...I really think it'd make a world of difference. Like 45 win team vs .500. If that's satisfactory. Then ride it out selling the public that all will be different next season when Oden "returns".

I just don't have faith they blow it up and fully committ to starting over. I think they fear the half empty arena and loss of revenue. It's ironic, but Allen's goldmine is supposed to be unique advantage for this franchise, but I sense he, or those that represent him, put making money on equal ground with winning.

 

[MARIS61]

Fair warning, this would cost this team a whole lot of wins in the short term.

If I were Cho and Paul Allen (Vulcan?)

1. I'd fire Nate and name Bernie the interim coach for the rest of the season. This is purely a "change for change's sake" move, just to get a slightly different voice in there.

2. I'd trade Miller, Camby, Oden and/or Joel and get whatever assets I could for them (preferably a decent big or two or a decent youngish point guard).

2a. Nobody is untouchable. Move Nic, Matthews, Armon and/or Babbitt if the right deal comes across your desk ... if you can move Roy or Aldridge for shorter term contracts do it.

3. Shut Roy down if he can't move on defense or severely limit his minutes with the supposition that rest might help in the longterm, or even if it doesn't maybe we'll get something out of him over the life of his contract.

4. Play Matthews, Nic, Luke, Patty and Dante as many minutes as you can give them (aside from the automatic 35 LMA is going to get and whatever other player(s) you might trade for.) Find out what you have with some of these young guys and figure out if they are worth developing, cutting or trading.

and finally ...

5. Ride your 25 or 30 win season into the lottery and take the best player available even if he's a wing ... and view this player as a trade chip.

That's it, that's all I've got -- the nuclear option that assumes that whatever championship aspirations this team had are dead and buried -- if some of the youngsters show enough promise to warrant being kept around then awesome, but that shouldn't rule out a complete overhaul of the roster in order to attain cap flexibility. Because in my opinion there's no worse situation to be in than a mediocre team paying the luxury tax, with longterm (and high dollar) salary commitments with no better than low seed playoff aspirations (see: Pacers, NBA basketball team, 2003-2009).

I admit that this is premature and maybe a bit over the top, but this team just has the feeling of a group that needs a major shakeup and I don't think an on-the-fly retooling is going to cut it; our trade assets feel a little too flimsy or old and the team's top talent is either too risky from a health perspective or locked into too many years to be easily moved in the short term.

Been there, done that. In fact that's why we're in this spot now.

 

[oldmangrouch]

If the new CBA is anywhere near as draconian as Stern wants, at least half the teams in the league will be in "blow it up" mode. Is it really such a huge risk to start now, rather than waiting until 2012? Even in the best case scenario, Miller and Camby will be done (or on their last legs) by 2012, so some degree of change is inevitable.

 

[KingSpeed]

Blow up this team, build it back up over several years to where the new guys finally get into the playoffs but lose in the first round 6 years from now? No. Horrible, horrible idea. Plus what is this "play the youngsters to see what they got"?? We HAVE been playing the "youngsters" and we DO know what they've got. Fuck, Dante has had to play stretches at C. And Wesley isn't some unknown. He started for the Jazz last year. Nic's started most of his career.

I think you're overreacting, Nik. We have a good team. And Roy is still a very effective player. He's gonna have to learn to play with what he has. Extensive rest won't make a difference (he had all summer off!) and why bench a guy who can put up 22 a night and is being paid millions to do so? Finally, I like to see my team WIN so I would like my coach, players, and management committed to that.

Look....the Wizards blew it up last season. They won the lotto. Wall is a stud. But do you see them legitmately competing for a championship in the next 5 to 7 years? I don't. Why would I want us to become THAT?

We should be looking to re-tool, looking for ways to improve our current roster, not destroy it.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Fair warning, this would cost this team a whole lot of wins in the short term.

If I were Cho and Paul Allen (Vulcan?)

1. I'd fire Nate and name Bernie the interim coach for the rest of the season. This is purely a "change for change's sake" move, just to get a slightly different voice in there.

2. I'd trade Miller, Camby, Oden and/or Joel and get whatever assets I could for them (preferably a decent big or two or a decent youngish point guard).

Never happen. Can't happen. First, a "youngish" point guard will be under a rookie contract. And any of those (with the possible exception of Augustine) is untouchable as we found out last summer. We'd have to trade Oden due to him being on a rookie contract and I can't see a team doing that one. Now, I could possibly see a team trading an average to less than average 'big' for one of our expiring contracts. But is that what we really want? Some slug. Not for me. I'd rather let the cap room come to us and get what we can via free agency. No disrespect intended, but this falls under the "we simply snap our fingers and the NBA falls at our knees with trades that help us win and them lose" scenario the drunken kids around here dream up during the off season. I see no reality here.

2a. Nobody is untouchable. Move Nic, Matthews, Armon and/or Babbitt if the right deal comes across your desk ... if you can move Roy or Aldridge for shorter term contracts do it.

I would think this makes sense. Batum is a highly prized commodity. Armon and Babbitt are token throw-ins. Roy is 110% untradable. I'd rather keep Aldridge.

3. Shut Roy down if he can't move on defense or severely limit his minutes with the supposition that rest might help in the longterm, or even if it doesn't maybe we'll get something out of him over the life of his contract.

I agree with this. He can move well enough to find an open jump shot. Aside from that, his game is gone.

4. Play Matthews, Nic, Luke, Patty and Dante as many minutes as you can give them (aside from the automatic 35 LMA is going to get and whatever other player(s) you might trade for.) Find out what you have with some of these young guys and figure out if they are worth developing, cutting or trading.

Well, if we really want to blow up the team, then this should follow.

and finally ...

5. Ride your 25 or 30 win season into the lottery and take the best player available even if he's a wing ... and view this player as a trade chip.

Since this nuclear approach isn't going to happen, we will still take the best player available in the draft as usual.

That's it, that's all I've got -- the nuclear option that assumes that whatever championship aspirations this team had are dead and buried -- if some of the youngsters show enough promise to warrant being kept around then awesome, but that shouldn't rule out a complete overhaul of the roster in order to attain cap flexibility. Because in my opinion there's no worse situation to be in than a mediocre team paying the luxury tax, with longterm (and high dollar) salary commitments with no better than low seed playoff aspirations (see: Pacers, NBA basketball team, 2003-2009).

I admit that this is premature and maybe a bit over the top, but this team just has the feeling of a group that needs a major shakeup and I don't think an on-the-fly retooling is going to cut it; our trade assets feel a little too flimsy or old and the team's top talent is either too risky from a health perspective or locked into too many years to be easily moved in the short term.

You know, this all started with trying to build a championship team rather than a long term playoff team like SA and Detroit did, and then tweak it for a title run. We took players with iffy injury histories (Roy, Oden) that we maybe should not have taken and hitched the franchise wagon to them in the hopes of a title. Now, that strategy has possibly destroyed this team for years to come. Allen and Vulcan are to blame for this epic fail.

 

[Blazinaway]

I'm pretty sure they'll wait until the deadline before giving up on the season. Joel will probably help quite a bit, even if he is gimpy, because we sorely lack a physical presence and rebounding. And if we just had a shooter or two...like if Rudy returned to his rookie form...I really think it'd make a world of difference. Like 45 win team vs .500. If that's satisfactory. Then ride it out selling the public that all will be different next season when Oden "returns".

I just don't have faith they blow it up and fully committ to starting over. I think they fear the half empty arena and loss of revenue. It's ironic, but Allen's goldmine is supposed to be unique advantage for this franchise, but I sense he, or those that represent him, put making money on equal ground with winning.

Then again I have no confidence this team can go anywhere constructed as it is, especially with Roy's diminished play and contract serving as a huge anchor - gotta be blunt and honest about that. IMO one big thing we need to do is see if anyone might take his contract by the deadline, I'll take expirings, he's only going to get worse as time goes on and we cannot build around him. A team with a "win window now" like Dallas or Chi or Orlando could take a chance on him if he cal play like he has the last few games for 30-35 mpg - if we are lucky.

 

[ucatchtrout]

Change the coach. Its time for a new direction.
Bring Brandon off the bench. He can't play D anymore and he can't carry the first unit offensively anymore. His style is better suited for 2nd unit play where the other players watch one guy light it up.
Trade anyone not named Oden or Aldridge or Roy to improve the roster. (LA and Roy are probably untradeable due to their contracts, and we're not going to get much for Greg...might as well see what the future holds for him)

 

[Nikolokolus]

Then again I have no confidence this team can go anywhere constructed as it is, especially with Roy's diminished play and contract serving as a huge anchor - gotta be blunt and honest about that. IMO one big thing we need to do is see if anyone might take his contract by the deadline, I'll take expirings, he's only going to get worse as time goes on and we cannot build around him. A team with a "win window now" like Dallas or Chi or Orlando could take a chance on him if he cal play like he has the last few games for 30-35 mpg - if we are lucky.

This is going to sound like blasphemy, but I'd trade him for Gilbert Arenas, if only because Gil has one less year on his deal.

 

[craigehlo]

This is going to sound like blasphemy, but I'd trade him for Gilbert Arenas, if only because Gil has one less year on his deal.

He's got one less year and doesn't look like he's nearly in the same amount of pain as Roy either. It's so sad that BRoy might be one of the worst contracts in the NBA right now.

Anyway, the only way out of the current situation is to trade the sizable expiring deals we have coming off the books this year (Andre, Joel) and next (Camby).

 

[Nikolokolus]

Blow up this team, build it back up over several years to where the new guys finally get into the playoffs but lose in the first round 6 years from now? No. Horrible, horrible idea. Plus what is this "play the youngsters to see what they got"?? We HAVE been playing the "youngsters" and we DO know what they've got. Fuck, Dante has had to play stretches at C. And Wesley isn't some unknown. He started for the Jazz last year. Nic's started most of his career.

I think you're overreacting, Nik. We have a good team. And Roy is still a very effective player. He's gonna have to learn to play with what he has. Extensive rest won't make a difference (he had all summer off!) and why bench a guy who can put up 22 a night and is being paid millions to do so? Finally, I like to see my team WIN so I would like my coach, players, and management committed to that.

Look....the Wizards blew it up last season. They won the lotto. Wall is a stud. But do you see them legitmately competing for a championship in the next 5 to 7 years? I don't. Why would I want us to become THAT?

We should be looking to re-tool, looking for ways to improve our current roster, not destroy it.

You think I'm overreacting, I think you're in denial. We'll call it a draw.

As for the Wizards, I don't know if I see them competing for a championship, but if Wall progresses like many think he will and if Javale McGee can ever figure it out (which he seems like he's starting to) then I think they've got as decent a chance as any team if Ted Leonsis can surround Wall in particular with the right mix of veterans through trades and free agent signings. I don't know what their odds are, but I'd put their chances way ahead of this Blazers team as currently constructed.

 

[Wheels]

havent read the whole responses to this thread but if it hasnt been mentioned.. not sure bombing gets us anything this year with the impending lockout.. there arent going to be any good underclassmen who are declaring for the draft. So unless Kyle Singler becomes all of the sudden coveted by the league's GM's for some reason, the lottery pick wont be much of an asset this year IMO.

 

[HailBlazers]

I don't think blowing it up (or tearing it down, depending on the metaphor you prefer for an extreme, long-term make-over) is really an option being considered. I think that Cho will first see where Roy is, what his perhaps new level of play is and then determine what moves make the team better from here. Not from a torn-down-to-the-foundations base in a couple of years.

As things stand right now, Portland is a mediocre team that might squeak into the playoffs if things broke their way. In my opinion, history shows that that is closer to a championship-caliber team than a team with some cap space, a top lottery pick and little to no talent. Teams rarely jump from terrible to great in one off-season, or even two, from adding superstars via free agency or draft picks.

I think Portland will probably start from the foundation they already have (Aldridge, Batum, whatever Roy proves to be) and build from there. They may deal older players in recognition that they are now further from title contention than they seemed to be a few months ago, but I don't think there is going to be a "tear it down" (rebuild) or "status quo" (win now) debate internally. I think business proceeds as usual: make any trade that makes the team better, reject any trade that doesn't.

Thanks Minstrel!

 

[e_blazer]

Good frickin' lord. What a massive overreaction to some injuries and a crappy period of play. The Blazers are 8-8 and 4 of their losses are by a combined total of 6 points. The team needs some corrections, but it's far from a blow-it-up and hope things work out in the future situation. Due to injuries, this team is a month behind the competition in developing a playing rotation. We're undersized because Joel and Greg are out, but that's going to change soon. Cho will likely have a disabled player exception to work with soon to bolster the lineup.

Most of all, IT'S STILL FRICKIN' NOVEMBER PEOPLE. There's a lot of basketball to be played and the Blazers are only a few wins from being back in the mix. Despite all of the hand wringing that goes on around here, not all of the bad stuff that happens in the NBA happens only to the Blazers. Some of the teams in front of us will have injuries or other disruptions that impact their play. The Blazers will play better. If things aren't shaping up as we close in on the trade deadline, it may make sense to think about making moves with an eye on retooling for the future, but now isn't that time.

 

[MIXUM]

kingspeed is 150% right

rebuilding is a joke. new coach and add the right players through trade.

 

[Ed O]

I don't understand why we'd give away everyone and anyone and then expect to be better off.

How are we going to acquire a better C prospect than Oden--even with his injuries--any time soon?

How are we going to get a superior PF than Aldridge? A better, younger SF than Batum?

Why would we change coaches if we're blowing things up? If the coach is being tuned out, isn't that better, so we lose as many games as possible?

I am not averse to trading Miller, Joel and even Camby... for younger players or picks or younger rotation guys on longer contracts. It might hurt us in the short run, but it would help build on the base that we have.

Tearing down the base we have seems like a terrible idea.

Ed O.

 

[craigehlo]

How are we going to acquire a better C prospect than Oden--even with his injuries--any time soon?

Let me see. The draft? For example, Roy Hibbert was a 17th pick a few seasons ago and developed nicely for the Pacers.

 

[LittleAlex]

I don't understand why we'd give away everyone and anyone and then expect to be better off.

How are we going to acquire a better C prospect than Oden--even with his injuries--any time soon?

How are we going to get a superior PF than Aldridge? A better, younger SF than Batum?

Why would we change coaches if we're blowing things up? If the coach is being tuned out, isn't that better, so we lose as many games as possible?

I am not averse to trading Miller, Joel and even Camby... for younger players or picks or younger rotation guys on longer contracts. It might hurt us in the short run, but it would help build on the base that we have.

Tearing down the base we have seems like a terrible idea.

Ed O.

Do you mean how good Batum actually is playing right now or how good some of us perceive he might become?

Replacing Batum's current production wouldn't be all that difficult.

Replacing the Platonic Ideal of Future Batum would be.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Stern's expressed goal in the new CBA is a 30% reduction in player payroll, and a hard cap to keep salaries suppressed. The only way to accomplish that, will be to make all existing contracts voidable (ie non-guaranteed).

Take a look at NBA payrolls. How many teams can absorb a 30% cut without dumping a significant chunk of their current rosters? Teams will find ways to keep their stars, but a lot of good players are going to be hitting the free agent market. Players like LMA and Matthews - good, but overpaid - are going to be looking for work at whatever they can get.

In the post lockout upheaval, the successful teams will be the ones who do the best job playing this new FA market. They won't need 5-6 years to rebuild/retool.

 

[Wheels]

dammit I rue the days when a good front office will be what gets you good, as opposed to an advantage with money. Wonder if there will be signing bonuses and stuff with free agents.

 

[Ed O]

Let me see. The draft? For example, Roy Hibbert was a 17th pick a few seasons ago and developed nicely for the Pacers.

So you're saying that the average mid-first round center is as good a prospect as Oden is right now?

Do you want me to detail all the flops? Or at least two, to indicate how silly pointing to a single player that might work out is?

Ed O.