Rebuild Around Dame

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Ayton would be such a huge aquisition. Has to be less than 1% chance to get him though. Way less.
 
Cugel said:
Ayton would be such a huge aquisition. Has to be less than 1% chance to get him though. Way less.
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Suppose we got the #3 pick. Would you trade the #3 and Nurk for Ayton? (Obviously it would have to be sign-and-trade on both ends.)

Obviously if we WEREN'T trying to build a contender round Dame, you keep the #3, but in this scenario...
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Suppose we got the #3 pick. Would you trade the #3 and Nurk for Ayton? (Obviously it would have to be sign-and-trade on both ends.)

Obviously if we WEREN'T trying to build a contender round Dame, you keep the #3, but in this scenario...
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easy no. Ayton is a little better than Nurkic, but he's not so much better that the difference is a top-3 pick. And Ayton has a worrisome injury history, just like Nurk

but more than that is the Blazers need to spend that top-3 pick where it has the most potential impact, and that's not at C
 
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wizenheimer said:
easy no. Ayton is a little better than Nurkic, but he's not so much better that the difference is a top-3 pick. And Ayton has a worrisome injury history, just like Nurk

but more than that is the Blazers need to spend that top-3 pick where it has the most potential impact, and that's not at C
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Exactly. My view is that if they can get Grant (who I view as decent but not a needle mover) with the Bucks' pick and other assets (Little?), then the top-3 pick, if they are fortunate enough to get it, can be used to get a difference-making wing. Preferably, that's through a trade for an established SF, maybe using Bledsoe for salary matching.

It's going to take way more luck than Cronin has found so far for this rebuild around Dame plan to work.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Suppose we got the #3 pick. Would you trade the #3 and Nurk for Ayton? (Obviously it would have to be sign-and-trade on both ends.)

Obviously if we WEREN'T trying to build a contender round Dame, you keep the #3, but in this scenario...
Click to expand...

I would but I am not a brilliant GM so maybe it would be a blunder.
 
wizenheimer said:
easy no. Ayton is a little better than Nurkic, but he's not so much better that the difference is a top-3 pick. And Ayton has a worrisome injury history, just like Nurk

but more than that is the Blazers need to spend that top-3 pick where it has the most potential impact, and that's not at C
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Agree to disagree. Ayton is, in my view, invaluable in the modern NBA because he's that rare big man who cannot be played off the floor by smallball. Nurk is an old-school center. I presume your comment about "most potential impact" not being at C is because of modern smallball.

Also, I have my doubts about this draft, or at least about the long-term best player from this draft being one that is currently ranked in the top 5.
 
Blazers should trade for LeBron!

Bledsoes contract, Keon Johnson, Didi! Boom!
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Agree to disagree. Ayton is, in my view, invaluable in the modern NBA because he's that rare big man who cannot be played off the floor by smallball. Nurk is an old-school center. I presume your comment about "most potential impact" not being at C is because of modern smallball.

Also, I have my doubts about this draft, or at least about the long-term best player from this draft being one that is currently ranked in the top 5.
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hypothetical:

Nurkic (13M) + Jabari Smith (9M) + Otto Porter (6M tax-MLE) + Eubanks (1.7M) >>> Ayton (30M)

or

Nurkic (13) + Jaden Ivey (9M) + Jalen Smith (8M MLE) + Eubanks (1.7M) >>> Ayton (30M)

or, simply:

Nurkic (13M) > Ayton (30M)
 
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Don't know what the tax implications would look like, but I think something like this would be a swing for the fences.
 

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RR7 said:
Toronto isn't going to trade OG for Little.
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Yeah, you're right...I was working of the discussions that some had had regarding Toronto possibly needing to move off OG for salary purposes, but I now remember those also involved us trading our number 6 to them.
 
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I love that you guys are talking about getting rid of Nurk.
 
Ayton is a significant upgrade over Nurk. I don't see how that can be disputed. But he is also more money and much harder to obtain.
 
The fact is if you can make the off season nothing more than signing Ant and Nurk to very reasonable and very tradeable contracts, drafting a forward with our first round pick that will make an immediate impact with the ability to get better, get the Pistons to take future draft consideration (even if that means guaranteeing our 2023 FRP to the Bulls to free up future picks) for Jerami Grant, drafting a backup big or pg with our early second rounder, then getting the backup you didn't draft with the TPMLE and opting in on Hart. You then have a rotation of Dame, Ant, mid to early lotto pick, Grant, Nurk, Hart, Nas, TPMLE, early second round pick, with a lot of young hungry players trying to get the rest of the minutes.

If Dame/Ant is more than the sum of its part and is therefore considerably better than Dame/CJ along with us drafting really well that's a better team than we have had during Dame's career and it's better by a pretty good margin. I think a well drafted player in the top 8 and Jerami Grant are far far better than any combo that we've had at forward since Dame has been at an all NBA level. I think that bench could be pretty damn impressive too. In two weeks we'll know where our draft pick is and that will give us a better idea of just how optimistic we can be but it's just not inconceivable that Dame, Ant, Jerami Grant, Jabari Smith, Nurk, Hart, Nas, a high second rounder and another solid bench player signed for around 6M could contend as early as this upcoming season. That's a lot of things breaking right for us but it's not at all out of the realm of possibilities.
 
Assuming the Blazers don't get a top 3 pick, I'm warming up to the idea of Keegan Murray or Shaedon Sharpe.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Ayton is, in my view, invaluable in the modern NBA because he's that rare big man who cannot be played off the floor by smallball. Nurk is an old-school center.
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Exactly! In today's NBA, Bigs like Gobert and Nurk are defensive liabilities come the playoffs as teams relentlessly run high pick and rolls until they've got their top ballhandling shooter iso'd on them. They are guaranteed a great look every trip down the court. Ayton is much more valuable because he can adequately stay in front of those guys, so the opposition has to try other means to get a good shot. The reason Blazer fans didn't see an overwhelming amount of this strategy during the regular season is that Portland had so many other poor defenders to go at.

STOMP
 
PtldPlatypus said:
1 ACL tear = "chronic"? Interesting.
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He's missed the last two seasons with that supposed single injury playing in less then half of the Magic's games since he was drafted in 2017. Can you name one player in the history of hoops who has missed similar time to knee injury(ies?) and come back to enjoy playing at anywhere close to their former abilities? I can't.

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
He's missed the last two seasons with that supposed single injury playing in less then half of the Magic's games since he was drafted in 2017. Can you name one player in the history of hoops who has missed similar time to knee injury(ies?) and come back to enjoy playing at anywhere close to their former abilities? I can't.

STOMP
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And obviously, any trade for him would be contingent on extensive testing and validation of his knee and hamstring health. But if he can pass the tests that a smart front office would require (questionable whether we have one of those, but I digress), then I think it'd be worth a shot.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
1 ACL tear = "chronic"? Interesting.
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An ACL that he's still rehabbing 21 months after the injury is a pretty big red flag. Now with a hamstring injury that needed even a minor surgery, he has to be seen as a huge injury risk with questionable soft tissue integrity.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...is-season-has-procedure-on-injured-hamstring/

I just don't know how any team can take a gamble on him unless it's just a complete salary dump on Orlando's part but I don't see why the Magic would take that gamble unless they know for sure the knee is shot. So in short I don't think there is any way he gets moved. No one can feel good about giving up anything of real value for him and if the Magic are willing to just dump him then he probably just eats up 17.4M of a team's cap every season for the next three seasons.

I mean I guess his management or the Magic could release some video of him showing what he's got on court, if he's ready to go but they were just holding him out to tank and then he could hold some value but if he is the Isaac he was before 17.4M is good value and I don't know why the Magic would trade him in that situation. Basically I don't think players making this kind of money on a multiyear contract ever get traded after sitting out two years before being seen in live NBA action and rebuilding their value.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
And obviously, any trade for him would be contingent on extensive testing and validation of his knee and hamstring health. But if he can pass the tests that a smart front office would require (questionable whether we have one of those, but I digress), then I think it'd be worth a shot.
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You dodged my question... interesting.

Are you pining for Isaac for the cultural wars that he'd bring as an outspoken asshat or because you actually think he'll ball at a high level again?

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
You dodged my question... interesting.

Are you pining for Isaac for the cultural wars that he'd bring as an outspoken asshat or because you actually think he'll ball at a high level again?

STOMP
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I "dodged your question" because I assumed it was rhetorical, since you and I both already knew the answer thereto.

Also, it's disingenuous to claim that me saying a trade for him would "be worth a shot" equates to me "pining for Isaac". You're better than that.

All that aside, I do believe that if his knee is healthy there would be a decent chance of him playing at a level better than any forward we've had since Aldridge (a low bar to clear, I understand). Obviously, if you looked at the trade prop I put out there, I'm not advocating giving up a ton for him. He's not an "all-in" type piece. I simply see him as a low-risk/high-reward option, if Orlando is looking to move off his contract to make room for other young frontcourt players without similar injury histories (including the top-3 draftee they're likely to have this summer).
 
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