Brandon Roy vs Damian Lillard... Who is better?

[Orion Bailey]

After all the controversy over Dame lately and with Roy's name being brought up alot, I thought I would put this together and see what people think after reading the stats and career highlights.

Brandon came into the league at the age of 22. In his first year he played in 57 games and put up the following numbers..

06-07
FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
349 765 .456 55 146 .377 294 619 .475 .492 202 241 .838 58 192 250 230 67 10 116 139 955


Dame also came into the league at the age of 22. In his first year he played in all 82 games and put up the following numbers...

12-13
FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
553 1288 .429 185 503 .368 368 785 .469 .501 271 321 .844 42 215 257 531 74 19 243 172 1562


Right off the bat I see the following things that stand out:

Though Broy shot a slightly better percentage from 3pt, Dame actually had the better 2pt% at .501 compared to Roy's .492. Dame also shot a slightly better FT% by a point.
However, at first glance it appears Roy came in with a much better Defensive agenda. In 57 games he only had 7 less steals than Dame in all 82 games. His TO ratio was also much better overall. In 57 games Roy only had 116 turnovers = 2.03 per game.

Dame had 243 turnovers in 82 games = 2.96 per game.

That's almost a full turnover more, which is fairly significant.

Looking at this first year, it sure seems hey both were very similar offensively, but Roy came out as a defensive beast compared to Lillard.

Now on to year two for Roy who played in 74 games:

07-08
FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
531 1170 .454 73 215 .340 458 955 .480 .485 281 373 .753 81 267 348 430 79 16 136 147 1416

Dame in his second season, again played all 82 games:

13-14
FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
553 1304 .424 218 554 .394 335 750 .447 .508 371 426 .871 35 253 288 457 64 22 193 197 1695


In more games, Roy's 3pt% dropped by almost 3%. His FG% also dropped by almost a point. His FT% took a huge drop of almost 10% going from 84% to 75%, though he only shot 52 more Free Throws. Not good.

In the same amount of games as his rookie season, Dame shot virtually the same in FG% and 2pt%, but raised his 3pt% up to 39%. He also increased his Free Throw percent by 3. a good jump overall from rookie to sophomore season. A better jump than what Roy had.

On to Year Three for Roy, who played in 78 games:

08-09
FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
633 1318 .480 83 220 .377 550 1098 .501 .512 416 505 .824 104 266 370 400 88 22 152 127 1765


Dame once again played in all 82 games:

14-15
FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
590 1360 .434 196 572 .343 394 788 .500 .506 344 398 .864 49 329 378 507 97 21 222 164 1720


Roy was able to raise most everything from the season before. Got his FT% up to 82. Also got his FG% up to 51. These are great steps of improvement from the year prior.

Dame put up more shots than either of his prior years with a total of 590 shots. His 3pt% dropped by 1.5 but his FG% stayed virtually the same. Dame's third year was very even to his second, with not much improvement.

And year four where Roy played in 65 games:

10-11
FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
491 1038 .473 73 221 .330 418 817 .512 .508 343 440 .780 73 212 285 305 61 16 129 136 1398

And Dame who has played in 64 games at the time of these stats being compiled:

15-16
FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
547 1282 .427 201 531 .379 346 751 .461 .505 355 399 .890 42 228 270 441 58 22 208 151 1650


Again,

Roy is shooting a lower percent from 3 than Dame, but has a much better FG%. Dames 2pt% took a real dive going from .500 to .461. Dame did raise his FT% up to 89%, where Roy took another step back down to 78%.

At a preliminary look, without having yet dug into individual game performances and clutch numbers,
it seems that Roy came out of the gate a better player, but had very little overall improvement once he entered the league. For the most part he was what he was out of college.
Dame seems to have been able to elevate more parts of his game as his career has grown...

I am not done yet with this and will post more individual achievements this evening to provide a better/clearer picture to be able to decide on, but from what I see so far, Roy was what he was and Dame is elevating his game almost every season. This leads me to believe he will continue to do so and will be the better player, if he isn't already after 4 seasons to compare.

 

[Tunchi]

This is a played out and tired conversation

 

[Natebishop3]

Dame. There might have been a discussion before this season, but his play this year has put that debate to bed.

 

[Orion Bailey]

This is a played out and tired conversation

Then don't participate....

From what I have read, there are still many people who prefer, or think Broy was better... especially in recent days. Trying to put all those discussions right here and see what we can pound out. If you don't like it, you can go pound sand....

However, I wouldn't have expected you to bring anything relevant to the table anyhow....

 

[Orion Bailey]

Dame. There might have been a discussion before this season, but his play this year has put that debate to bed.

I see one thing that people might use to think/believe/chose Roy as the better player. Consistency. He was way more consistent based on the stats than Dame, and if Dame IS inconsistent, he has a higher chance of regressing over the next few years. Do I believe this to be a probability? No. But his inconsistency does lead to the question in my opinion.

 

[e_blazer]

The way your thread title is worded, there's no doubt that Dame IS better, since Roy's knees are toast. I know you meant Roy I'm his prime vs. Dame, though and that's a tough call. They're such different players that comparison is hard. I think I'd have to give a slight nod to Dame because he gets his teammates more involved than Roy did. That said, Roy was a hell of a player and it's just a shame we couldn't have had them both at the same time.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

This is a played out and tired conversation

http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/who-is-will-be-better-in-the-end-brandon-or-damien.254702/
http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/brandon-roy-or-damian-lillard.294393/

Were it not for the health issues, I think Roy would have ended up with the superior career. I also believe that Dame has had the benefit of a far superior offensive coach and system. However, I'd say that Dame is the better leader and teammate, and those intangibles can't be ignored.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The way your thread title is worded, there's no doubt that Dame IS better, since Roy's knees are toast. I know you meant Roy I'm his prime vs. Dame, though and that's a tough call. They're such different players that comparison is hard. I think I'd have to give a slight nod to Dame because he gets his teammates more involved than Roy did. That said, Roy was a hell of a player and it's just a shame we couldn't have had them both at the same time.

Yeah, Maybe I should have been clearer in the initial question, but im putting injuries aside and trying to strictly look at game play and taking the first four seasons as an indicator as to how the rest of their respective careers would have arched.

At first glance, it seems Dame is clearly better because his game is getting better, but the eye test tells me he is way streakier than Roy. This is my concern looking at a long term career. Will Dame become streakier and have longer down times, or will he become more consistent and continue to elevate his game? I think this is the question that has the answer to the thread question.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Dame is more valuable because of his position, allowing the Blazers to play with another dynamic SG. BRoy acted like a PG but was not. I absolutely loved watching BRoy play, maybe even more than Dame, but he had to play with the right type of PG, one that did not dominate the ball.

Dame on the other hand can play with anyone. He is more versatile. This year he has shown he can run the offense while waiting to be the primary scorer. (When CJ is hot)

 

[Orion Bailey]

This is a played out and tired conversation

Dame. There might have been a discussion before this season, but his play this year has put that debate to bed.

Id like to point out that Roy is leading the poll currently, so this may not be played out, tired, or even put to bed as of yet.

 

[riverman]

Roy was talented but damaged goods, Lillard is a much healthier player and in my view, makes his teammates better than Roy did...Roy was an iso player, Dame looks to his teammates more. Dame is my answer.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

I believe Dame is more about the team and winning. I was never too sure about Roy.

 

[riverman]

Id like to point out that Roy is leading the poll currently, so this may not be played out, tired, or even put to bed as of yet.

I vote Dame and who cares if Debbie Downer likes your poll or not...he can use the ignore thread button anytime

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

End of discussion. If both Riverman and I say it's Dame, then it is. /thread.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

Yeah, who gets to be a thread-creation nazi? Are we going to tell BGD and AlbertoJr what thread topics they can start?
I'm starting to dislike you Tunchi, and you don't wan't to get on my bad side. I'll call up the forum ghosts.

 

[andalusian]

Until this year - it was debatable, but Dame's year is amazing - so at this point and going forward, Dame.

We will never know what a healthy Roy in his prime would have looked like - I suspect that he would have been an even bigger hassle to deal with than Dame - since he was a much stronger physical specimen - just imagine how Roy would have looked with better health and some time to hone his post game - he would have been a big SG sized Lebron like player - can initiate and be the fulcrum of the offense, fantastic in ISO situations and strong, big, physical player.

I loved Roy and his career cut short is the biggest sadness I have about the NBA - but Dame is an amazing player as well and by now has surpassed what Roy on his creaky knees managed.

 

[Natebishop3]

In terms of leadership, Dame by a mile.

In terms of overall talent, I still say Dame. I don't remember Roy ever going on a tear like Dame just did.

 

[B-Roy]

I still think 08-09 Roy was better, but Dame is pushing it.

 

[Daweez04]

I find it absolutely hilarious when Dame went off for 30 points 10+ games no one said shit. Now Blazers get through the toughest part of their schedule, playing .500 ball in that stretch, and Dame is all the sudden isn't that great.

Dame as a leader by a long shot

Dame by talent as well. He can play without the ball in his hands. Imagine if Roy had to play with a volume scorer like CJ/Dame at the 1? Couldn't have worked, Roy needed the ball in his hands to be effective.

 

[B-Roy]

In terms of leadership, Dame by a mile.

In terms of overall talent, I still say Dame. I don't remember Roy ever going on a tear like Dame just did.

 

[andalusian]

In terms of leadership, Dame by a mile.

In terms of overall talent, I still say Dame. I don't remember Roy ever going on a tear like Dame just did.

I do not think we ever saw Roy completely healthy. This is really not a fair comparison - talent wise - Roy was amazing, he had the equivalent of Lillard's athletic ability with a better version of CJ's skill and ability to stop on a dime, change directions and slither anywhere he wanted. He just never had the health, system and team-support that Lillard had.

I would argue that talent wise Roy was a smidge better, we just never got to experience it on a fully healthy version of Roy.

 

[Natebishop3]

View attachment 8357

View attachment 8358

That's....... not as good.

 

[Natebishop3]

He just never had the health, system and team-support that Lillard had.

Wha????

The entire McMillan offense was built around Roy, and in terms of talent, the Roy teams were much more talented.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I do not think we ever saw Roy completely healthy. This is really not a fair comparison - talent wise - Roy was amazing, he had the equivalent of Lillard's athletic ability with a better version of CJ's skill and ability to stop on a dime, change directions and slither anywhere he wanted. He just never had the health, system and team-support that Lillard had.

I would argue that talent wise Roy was a smidge better, we just never got to experience it on a fully healthy version of Roy.

I agree with you on the one on one overall I think, but the team support is way off. Remember ROy had Aldridge and Oden(laughable), a much better bench in my opinion (until this year) and a coach that ran ISO for him all the time. He had all the support form both coaches and players... at least as much as Dame has, especially up until this year

 

[riverman]

Dame didn't retire one day worried about walking with his kids and end the season a Timberwolve either....Roy could create his own shot as well as any Blazer ever.

 

[Daweez04]

Wha????

The entire McMillan offense was built around Roy, and in terms of talent, the Roy teams were much more talented.

Seriously. Nate started Blake for how long, just because Roy didn't "mesh" well with Dre. I'm not quite sure how much more a system could be centered around one guy.

 

[B-Roy]

That's....... not as good.

View attachment 8359

Wha????

The entire McMillan offense was built around Roy, and in terms of talent, the Roy teams were much more talented.

You can't be serious? The main reason I still hold Roy's 08-09 season in higher regard is because he led that group of nothings to 54 wins and homecourt advantage.

Seriously, which supporting cast is better:

Roy's:
Aldridge - Decent 2nd option
Oden - Couldn't even stay out of foul trouble, injured half the time
Przy - Pretty good
Rudy - Out of the league
Batum - Rookie token starter
Blake - lol
Outlaw - Out of the league
Frye - Didn't even have a 3 point shot
Sergio - Out of the league
Bayless - Barely played

Vs:

Dame's:
CJ - Decent 2nd option
Plumlee - Pretty good
Davis - Pretty good
Crabbe - Pretty good
Hendo - Pretty good
Aminu - Eh
Harkless - Eh
Leonard - Eh
Vonleh - Token rookie starter

You can't honestly tell me the first team is more talented as the second one? At worst they're even in talent, the difference is Roy's team won 54 and Dame's is on pace to win 42-43.

 

[Natebishop3]

Seriously. Nate started Blake for how long, just because Roy didn't "mesh" well with Dre. I'm not quite sure how much more a system could be centered around one guy.

I think people like to look back fondly on the Roy years and build him up into more than he was because he turned the franchise around. As good as Roy was, there are things that Lillard has done this year that put him in rare air. How many factoids have the Blazers put out about him? How many accomplishments has he achieved that haven't been done since Petrie in the 70s? Our entire offense was built around Roy and he never dominated in the same way that Dame has been. People will always have that "what if" attitude about Roy and his health, but in an era where point guards dominate the league, Dame is still finding a way to stand out among the rest.

 

[illmatic99]

You can't be serious? The main reason I still hold Roy's 08-09 season in higher regard is because he led that group of nothings to 54 wins and homecourt advantage.

Agreed. Dame has yet to reach the peak that BRoy did in 08-09. 24+ PER with far better defense. He was close to top 5 player in the league, while Dame is closer now to top 10. Then again, if the argument for longest sustained success, the winner is obviously Dame.

 

[Natebishop3]

You can't be serious? The main reason I still hold Roy's 08-09 season in higher regard is because he led that group of nothings to 54 wins and homecourt advantage.

Seriously, which supporting cast is better:

Roy's:
Aldridge - Decent 2nd option
Oden - Couldn't even stay out of foul trouble, injured half the time
Przy - Pretty good
Rudy - Out of the league
Batum - Rookie token starter
Blake - lol
Outlaw - Out of the league
Frye - Didn't even have a 3 point shot
Sergio - Out of the league
Bayless - Barely played

Vs:

Dame's:
CJ - Decent 2nd option
Plumlee - Pretty good
Davis - Pretty good
Crabbe - Pretty good
Hendo - Pretty good
Aminu - Eh
Harkless - Eh
Leonard - Eh
Vonleh - Token rookie starter

You can't honestly tell me the first team is more talented as the second one? At worst they're even in talent, the difference is Roy's team won 54 and Dame's is on pace to win 42-43.

LOL

Dude....... I guess if you want to play by those rules.

Roy - Out of the league