Brandon Roy vs Damian Lillard... Who is better?

[Draco]

How soon all of you forget...

Roy put the Jail Blazer era out of its misery and saved the Blazers and basketball for Portland.

Paul Allen had put the Blazers for sale. The Blazers didn't even own the Rose Garden anymore. This entire franchise was a disaster. Privately, Mayor Tom Potter would have let the Blazers out of the arena agreement for far less than the lease stated to avoid a long court battle.

It was Roy's magical rookie season that brought the fans back and more importantly made Paul Allen fall in love with the team again. He took the team off the market and bought back the Rose Garden.

Brandon Roy saved the Portland Trail Blazers.

Roy benefited greatly from coming along at a low point. He wasn't responsible for the team turning around he just happened to be along for the ride as the best player when all that crap happened.

Put Sabonis, Wes Matthews, Briant Grant, Jerome Kersey or any of those solid franchise guys on the team in Roy's situation and the team finally makes it back to the playoffs; they'd get all sorts of credit for saving the franchise.

There were tons of factors; Roy was only a small minor piece.

 

[Natebishop3]

It became a part of the conversation when you said that you believe that Dame has more talented than Roy. I am 100% behind Dame is a better blazer and player - but I am not going ready to accept that he is more talented yet. Roy had all the talent in the world. He just was never healthy enough with good enough support system (mature teammates in their prime and great offensive coach) to really show us what he could do with all that talent.

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying.... but yes, I do think Dame is more talented than Roy. I think he has done things in his first four years that Roy never did.

But B-Roy is saying that Roy's 08-09 season was better than Dame's best season. I disagree.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Roy benefited greatly from coming along at a low point. He wasn't responsible for the team turning around he just happened to be along for the ride as the best player when all that crap happened.

Put Sabonis, Wes Matthews, Briant Grant, Jerome Kersey or any of those solid franchise guys on the team in Roy's situation and the team finally makes it back to the playoffs; they'd get all sorts of credit for saving the franchise.

There were tons of factors; Roy was only a small minor piece.

Blazers didn't make the playoffs Roy's rookie season.

Roy was far from a minor piece. He became the leader and face of the franchise by the time the 2006-07 season was over. Paul Allen took the team off the market, then decided to end the drama and buy back the Rose Garden. While I love and respect all of the players you mentioned, some even more than Roy, none of them would have had an as immediate impact on the team, the franchise and the fan base. Roy was a breath of fresh air that was finally able to blow away the stench of the Jail Blazers.

 

[ripcityboy]

I love Brandon but there will always be that tinge of "what could have been." My memory of him will always be at the height of his game. Dame has hitched his career to the Blazers for the long hall and my hope is he retires as a Blazer. Just once in my life I would like to see a player in full.... not someone who's knees blew out, or got traded to Houston to live out his career fantasy. Someone who is completely identified with this franchise as its greatest player, unequivocally.

 

[blazerboy30]

Roy benefited greatly from coming along at a low point. He wasn't responsible for the team turning around he just happened to be along for the ride as the best player when all that crap happened.

Put Sabonis, Wes Matthews, Briant Grant, Jerome Kersey or any of those solid franchise guys on the team in Roy's situation and the team finally makes it back to the playoffs; they'd get all sorts of credit for saving the franchise.

There were tons of factors; Roy was only a small minor piece.

You forgot the green font...

 

[BigGameDamian]

All my years around these guys, I have only seen ONE player change......Wes!

Well he did changed teams.

 

[andalusian]

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying.... but yes, I do think Dame is more talented than Roy. I think he has done things in his first four years that Roy never did.

This is why I made my point - because I am not certain that Dame is more talented. I believe that what we have seen him do things Roy did not was because he was in a better system with better support and more health to develop than Roy had. It is OK to disagree - I love everything that Dame does - and his talents are better suited to what the new NBA is evolving into - but Roy had tons of talent, maybe more than Dame did - he just did not do all these things that Dame managed so far because the chips did not fall as readily his way as Dame's did in his NBA career so far.

 

[Orion Bailey]

This is why I made my point - because I am not certain that Dame is more talented. I believe that what we have seen him do things Roy did not was because he was in a better system with better support and more health to develop than Roy had. It is OK to disagree - I love everything that Dame does - and his talents are better suited to what the new NBA is evolving into - but Roy had tons of talent, maybe more than Dame did - he just did not do all these things that Dame managed so far because the chips did not fall as readily his way as Dame's did in his NBA career so far.

See, this is where I disagree. Broy may have had more physically raw talent, but Dame was surrounded by vets that would share the load more. If anything I would think that Roy would have had more of an individual output because he was isolated more and was the go to guy pretty much from day one, where Dame has only been the go to guy for this year.

 

[H.C.]

To me Roy and Lillard are completely different players that it's hard to draw a comparison between them.
Or even determine who is the more talented or better player.

The one thing that can be said without a doubt is Lillard is much better playing off the ball than Roy ever was.
One could argue Roy held certain teammates back from reaching their potential due to needing the ball in his hands to be most effective.
But Roy is miles ahead of Lillard in terms of CoD ability. Which made Roy a better iso player.

But I don't think it's qualifyable to say Roy or Lillard were better than each other. They had different games, different strengths & weaknesses.

 

[andalusian]

See, this is where I disagree. Broy may have had more physically raw talent, but Dame was surrounded by vets that would share the load more. If anything I would think that Roy would have had more of an individual output because he was isolated more and was the go to guy pretty much from day one, where Dame has only been the go to guy for this year.

Roy could not have more of an individual output for several obvious reasons:

1. He was not the 3 point shooter that Dame is.
2. He did not have another offensively dominant player that had to be stopped by opposing teams. The LMA that played with Roy was not the dominant low-post guy that you had to respect as the one that Dame had - and Roy never had anyone that could create as well as he did and could score as he did - as Dame has in CJ - so the defense had a much easier job of focusing on him.
3. The team was playing the slowest pace in the NBA where this team is about half way in the NBA, you get about 7 or 8 more times per game to do something in this team
4. The ISO system implemented at the time again made it much easier to focus on stopping Roy and only Roy to shut the Blazers down.

The fact that he had an amazing output given these points - to me, shows that he was a massively talented player.

Compare the 2013-2014 Blazers to the 2008-2009 Blazers. Both teams won 54 games during the regular season - but the 2008-2009 team did it with Roy being the best player on a team that featured the slowest pace in the leauge, a "rookie" Oden, a rookie Nic Batum (starting) a young LMA that was no-where near as good as the 2013-2014 LMA. That team had no place in the world to win at a 0.65 pace - and it was all because of Roy.

Just to give you a comparison - during the 2013-2014 year Robin Lopez gave you more minutes, points per game than Oden gave you during 2008-2009. Assume for a minute that Roy and Dame played the same position (Guard #1) - the 2013-2014 had better players in every position (Older Batum > rookie Batum, Older LMA >> young LMA, Lopez > Oden, Wes >>> Blake) and while the 2008-2009 bench was somewhat better than the 2013-2014 bench - the 2013-2014 team was super healthy with the starters playing long, productive minutes in almost every game of the season.

I will say this - I think that individually, Roy was a massive talent that I do not think even Dame has, but the way the game is played today and the move away from ISO play and emphasis on 3 point shooting makes Dame more valuable today - and maybe the talent gap is not that big. When you add Dame's health, apparent leadership and ability to play off the ball - he is a better player to build around for today's NBA

 

[blazerboy30]

I'm a huge fan of Dame and think he's been amazing for this franchise, but...

If I needed to build a team, knowing only what we knew about Roy in 08-09 or knowing what we know today about Lillard, I would choose Roy.

Roy was absolutely dominate and possibly the 2nd best SG in the league. His combination of size, athleticism and ball handling made him much more difficult to stop.

As a specific example, Roy would not have been forced into a step-back-fadeaway 3 pointer at the buzzer against Dallas in that situation.

 

[B-Roy]

Roy could not have more of an individual output for several obvious reasons:

1. He was not the 3 point shooter that Dame is.
2. He did not have another offensively dominant player that had to be stopped by opposing teams. The LMA that played with Roy was not the dominant low-post guy that you had to respect as the one that Dame had - and Roy never had anyone that could create as well as he did and could score as he did - as Dame has in CJ - so the defense had a much easier job of focusing on him.
3. The team was playing the slowest pace in the NBA where this team is about half way in the NBA, you get about 7 or 8 more times per game to do something in this team
4. The ISO system implemented at the time again made it much easier to focus on stopping Roy and only Roy to shut the Blazers down.

The fact that he had an amazing output given these points - to me, shows that he was a massively talented player.

Compare the 2013-2014 Blazers to the 2008-2009 Blazers. Both teams won 54 games during the regular season - but the 2008-2009 team did it with Roy being the best player on a team that featured the slowest pace in the leauge, a "rookie" Oden, a rookie Nic Batum (starting) a young LMA that was no-where near as good as the 2013-2014 LMA. That team had no place in the world to win at a 0.65 pace - and it was all because of Roy.

Just to give you a comparison - during the 2013-2014 year Robin Lopez gave you more minutes, points per game than Oden gave you during 2008-2009. Assume for a minute that Roy and Dame played the same position (Guard #1) - the 2013-2014 had better players in every position (Older Batum > rookie Batum, Older LMA >> young LMA, Lopez > Oden, Wes >>> Blake) and while the 2008-2009 bench was somewhat better than the 2013-2014 bench - the 2013-2014 team was super healthy with the starters playing long, productive minutes in almost every game of the season.

I will say this - I think that individually, Roy was a massive talent that I do not think even Dame has, but the way the game is played today and the move away from ISO play and emphasis on 3 point shooting makes Dame more valuable today - and maybe the talent gap is not that big. When you add Dame's health, apparent leadership and ability to play off the ball - he is a better player to build around for today's NBA

Well said.

 

[ChadWick]

I'm a huge fan of Dame and think he's been amazing for this franchise, but...

If I needed to build a team, knowing only what we knew about Roy in 08-09 or knowing what we know today about Lillard, I would choose Roy.

Roy was absolutely dominate and possibly the 2nd best SG in the league. His combination of size, athleticism and ball handling made him much more difficult to stop.

As a specific example, Roy would not have been forced into a step-back-fadeaway 3 pointer at the buzzer against Dallas in that situation.

I really believe if Roy had a full healthy career he would have been a Top 5 SG of all time. I remember when Ron Artest said he was the toughest player to guard.

 

[Natebishop3]

This is why I made my point - because I am not certain that Dame is more talented. I believe that what we have seen him do things Roy did not was because he was in a better system with better support and more health to develop than Roy had. It is OK to disagree - I love everything that Dame does - and his talents are better suited to what the new NBA is evolving into - but Roy had tons of talent, maybe more than Dame did - he just did not do all these things that Dame managed so far because the chips did not fall as readily his way as Dame's did in his NBA career so far.

But you're talking about our team over the past three years, while B-Roy and I are debating whether the 08-09 team with Roy was more talented overall than the current team with Dame.

I personally think the 08-09 team was more talented. It was really the only year that we had a healthy Roy/Aldridge/Oden. That was also the year that Rudy was healthy and had very solid numbers off the bench. This is key because we're debating the impact of Dame getting this team into the playoffs, compared to Roy's team winning 54 games that year.

 

[HolyBackboard]

How does this thread have SIX pages?!?!

It's no contest, Dame is head and shoulders above the player that Brandon Roy was and that was cemented as soon as Dame went 0.9 on the Rockets to win our first playoff series since 2000.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Kobe once said Roy was the hardest player to guard in the league. He never said that about Dame.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Why do we have to pick one? Can't we just be happy that we got to see both play?

 

[B-Roy]

Why do we have to pick one? Can't we just be happy that we got to see both play?

Answer: No

Source: We're all Blazers fans.

 

[Strenuus]

Kobe once said Roy was the hardest player to guard in the league. He never said that about Dame.

Probably because Kobe isn't the defender he was when Dame came in.

Logic and stuff.