Politics Brittney Griner

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Natebishop3 said:
I don't understand why the entertainment industry is so hard to grasp.

Movies, television, sports..... are part of the entertainment industry. If your product doesn't make money, you don't make money. Plenty of movie stars who used to be big are now gone because they had too many flops. You can try to insert your social agenda into entertainment all you want, but if people don't want to watch it, it won't make money and it will go away. If people are unhappy with the compensation that women get from sports, they should support those sports more.

How much womens sports do you watch @Phatguysrule

How many jerseys have you purchased?

The NFL and NBA are profitable because people watch them. Their franchises are worth billions of dollars. It's pretty cut and dry. We're not talking about manufacturing cars here. We're talking about a product that needs eyes to watch it or it's not profitable. Sadly, women's sports is not that profitable. If you were running a business and you were barely scraping by, would you pay your employees more money? Would you go into a deficit to pay your employees more? Would you go out of business just so you could pay your employees more money for a short period of time?
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I watch a ton of women's sports. I coach women's sports. I pay for WNBA league pass.

And I see the difference between young girls who play sports (or do other extra curricular activities) and those who don't.

Women's competitions make society better. Stronger.
 
riverman said:
You have to fill an arena with fans and sell a ton of merch to get big paychecks in sports...from what I've seen in both college and the WNBA there's usually an echo in the arena....it's not a thriving success not that it couldn't blossom into that. I went to Oregon State games when my son was a student and the men's basketball program had a ton of fan support...the women's ..empty seats. It can change but it's going to take an image makeover from what I see to make it more of a draw than baseball which it's not as of yet...women's softball and baseball is much more popular
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I just made a proposal that would pay them better without doing the other stuff first.

If we didn't put power behind women's sports via title 9 there would still be no women's sports other than what media were able to sexualize.

Women are worth more than that, IMO.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
I watch a ton of women's sports. I coach women's sports. I pay for WNBA league pass.

And I see the difference between young girls who play sports (or do other extra curricular activities) and those who don't.

Women's competitions make society better. Stronger.
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That's great! I have also supported high school and college women's basketball but I didn't have much company...I don't subscribe to any league pass though..I'm a radio guy for most live sports. Blackouts soured me on NBA league pass..did it two years in a row and found it frustrating and I can honestly say the WNBA doesn't keep my attention much...I'm not a fan at all and don't seek it out so I'm part of why they lack big viewing numbers. I do watch team USA play in the Olympics though which I thoroughly enjoy.
 
riverman said:
You have to fill an arena with fans and sell a ton of merch to get big paychecks in sports...from what I've seen in both college and the WNBA there's usually an echo in the arena....it's not a thriving success not that it couldn't blossom into that. I went to Oregon State games when my son was a student and the men's basketball program had a ton of fan support...the women's ..empty seats. It can change but it's going to take an image makeover from what I see to make it more of a draw than baseball which it's not as of yet...women's softball and baseball is much more popular
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The problem for me, personally, is that I am used to and enjoy the level of athleticism and skill at the pro level of men's basketball. I can't stand high school sports for the same reason that I don't enjoy watching women's basketball. I don't even really like college basketball. As an example, it drive me nuts how many of the college players are horrible at free throw shooting. It's just frustrating to watch. I like dunks. I like deep threes. I like hard physical play. I just don't see those things from women's basketball.

Also, I'll just point out that there's so many things to pull people's attention now. There's so many streaming services and content that's available on demand all the time. So someone REALLY has to want to watch something that's kinda niche. Just an example, but motorcycle racing isn't super big in the US anymore. I had to pay for a separate subscription to stream the MotoGP races and it wasn't cheap. It's huge overseas but in the US it just really isn't that big and it's niche. Those guys put their lives on the line every race, and people have died. Some of them really don't make that much money. Especially the guys in the US. But they make their money from endorsements and if they're not one of the most popular riders on a factory vehicle, they just won't make that much money. It's not fair but that's the sport.
 
riverman said:
That's great! I have also supported high school and college women's basketball but I didn't have much company...I don't subscribe to any league pass though..I'm a radio guy for most live sports. Blackouts soured me on NBA league pass..did it two years in a row and found it frustrating
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We can't watch anything on time anyway, so the blackouts don't bother me. And I want to support the sport any way I can.

Men's sports are so flush with cash we could easily support women's sports better without negatively impacting anybody.

I see no reason not to do it.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I watch a ton of women's sports. I coach women's sports. I pay for WNBA league pass.

And I see the difference between young girls who play sports (or do other extra curricular activities) and those who don't.

Women's competitions make society better. Stronger.
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That's fantastic. Good for you. I'm not saying that with any sarcasm at all. That's why we try our best to offer the same opportunities in high school and college, but the pros are about making money. They're a business. Businesses need to make money. You can't pay someone money that doesn't exist.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I just made a proposal that would pay them better without doing the other stuff first.

If we didn't put power behind women's sports via title 9 there would still be no women's sports other than what media were able to sexualize.

Women are worth more than that, IMO.
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Honestly I think all professional athletes in basketball are grossly overpaid but I feel that way about entertainment industry in general...Brad Pitt can make 20 million for six weeks work and it's not fair...ever. I also think a kid should be able to go to a game and not be priced out by adults with deep pockets.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I just made a proposal that would pay them better without doing the other stuff first.

If we didn't put power behind women's sports via title 9 there would still be no women's sports other than what media were able to sexualize.

Women are worth more than that, IMO.
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Title 9 relates to sports in education, requiring educational institutions that proclaim value in marrying athletics and education to provide equal athletic opportunities for all students, and requiring those institutions to foot the bill. There's a very clear public benefit (involvement in youth sports is valuable to development), and a very clear definition of the responsible party (educational institutions).

Attempting to apply the same logic to government subsidization of professional women's athletics is fraught with pitfalls.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Title 9 relates to sports in education, requiring educational institutions that proclaim value in marrying athletics and education to provide equal athletic opportunities for all students, and requiring those institutions to foot the bill. There's a very clear public benefit (involvement in youth sports is valuable to development), and a very clear definition of the responsible party (educational institutions).

Attempting to apply the same logic to government subsidization of professional women's athletics is fraught with pitfalls.
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What pitfalls are you referring to?
 
Natebishop3 said:
That's fantastic. Good for you. I'm not saying that with any sarcasm at all. That's why we try our best to offer the same opportunities in high school and college, but the pros are about making money. They're a business. Businesses need to make money. You can't pay someone money that doesn't exist.
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The money does exist. I've already shown where it can come from without negatively impacting anybody. While possibly helping to improve the NBA product...

And that's just 1 of many different possible solutions...
 
Phatguysrule said:
What pitfalls are you referring to?
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logical pitfalls in comparing the two.

For example--title IX directly impacts millions of people, namely every girl enrolled in any US educational institution. Subsidizing the WNBA directly impacts, what, 200 people? How do you bridge that gap?

There are similar gaps in cost, type of impact, long-term feasibility, equity, etc.
 
Phatguysrule said:
The money does exist. I've already shown where it can come from without negatively impacting anybody. While possibly helping to improve the NBA product...

And that's just 1 of many different possible solutions...
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Tax payers shouldn't subsidize entertainment. That would be ridiculous. Put that money into education. We're not talking about trying to get more women into STEM. The WNBA is already being subsidized by the NBA. I'm tired of our government putting money into failing businesses while our economy is going into the trash. We should be investing into education. We should be investing into our infrastructure. We should be looking into healthcare and mental health. There are so many social issues that are much higher up the list than women being paid higher wages in professional sports. A lot of people would KILL to get 150-200k to play sports for a living.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Tax payers shouldn't subsidize entertainment. That would be ridiculous. Put that money into education. We're not talking about trying to get more women into STEM. The WNBA is already being subsidized by the NBA. I'm tired of our government putting money into failing businesses while our economy is going into the trash. We should be investing into education. We should be investing into our infrastructure. We should be looking into healthcare and mental health. There are so many social issues that are much higher up the list than women being paid higher wages in professional sports. A lot of people would KILL to get 150-200k to play sports for a living.
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My suggestion doesn't prevent any of those things you're pointing out. It doesn't impact them at all.

It would however increase the talent pool and give more kids incentive to further their education.

And I didn't say tax payers should support it. I said I would be fine with it if they did.
 
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PtldPlatypus said:
logical pitfalls in comparing the two.

For example--title IX directly impacts millions of people, namely every girl enrolled in any US educational institution. Subsidizing the WNBA directly impacts, what, 200 people? How do you bridge that gap?

There are similar gaps in cost, type of impact, long-term feasibility, equity, etc.
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Improving the talent pool, and thereby the product, would give the sport more exposure to more girls. Lifting the college game, as well as HS.

Some of those young people reached by the expanded exposure would naturally choose to be like their role models and play sports.

What if WNBA players didn't all have to play overseas to make a decent living and could spend their off season here advocating for and helping to build the sport... Or running camps in less priveleged areas?

This would all be good.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
My suggestion doesn't prevent any of those things you're pointing out. It doesn't impact them at all.

It would however increase the talent pool and give more kids incentive to further their education.

And I didn't say tax payers should support it. I said I would be fine with it if they did.
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Throwing out "tax incentives" firstly isn't really a plan. Second, it is subsidizing. Taxes go to government programs. Programs like education.
 
Shaboid said:
I'm just going to throw this out there.... who has a daughter and who doesn't?
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My only child is a daughter. I'd like her to play sports but I'm also going to be realistic with her about the realities of what life is like after school and pursuing things that can support a comfortable lifestyle. Sports aren't a good bet, and neither is really any form of entertainment. That includes acting, music, art, etc. None of it is generally lucrative unless you're either very very good or very very lucky.
 
Shaboid said:
I'm just going to throw this out there.... who has a daughter and who doesn't?
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I have 3 daughters. All 3 play sports.

*Edit* None of them are planning on taking the pay cut currently required to play in the WNBA.

Though, they may do it if the opportunity presents itself.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Throwing out "tax incentives" firstly isn't really a plan. Second, it is subsidizing. Taxes go to government programs. Programs like education.
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Lol. Taxes go to business all the time... Welcome to America...for far less beneficial things than women's sports...
 
Natebishop3 said:
Throwing out "tax incentives" firstly isn't really a plan. Second, it is subsidizing. Taxes go to government programs. Programs like education.
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That wasn't the plan. I simply said I would support tax incentives.
 
Phatguysrule said:
pay cut currently required to play in the WNBA.
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It isn't a pay cut. It's the going rate.

This would be like comparing all writers. There are some writers who do books. Some do screenplays. Some do articles for newspapers. Whichever form of writing you choose to pursue, you don't get to expect that they all pay the same. Similarly, not all athletes can expect the same level of pay. That's the business of entertainment. It's pretty cut and dry. If I write a book, I will either make money because it's a good book and people buy it, or I won't. Hell, it might not even be published. I would have sunk hours into writing something for nothing. No compensation at all. If a woman author writes a book that does better than me, and it makes a lot more money, is that fair? What if my book is objectively better written? There are a lot of very shitty books that make a ton of money because of the genre. Hell, there are some screenwriters that make GOOD money just writing those horrible Hallmark movies every year. If I write an objectively better script, or better book, is it fair that I'm not making the same pay? Yes, it's fair, because I'm trying to write what I want to write, and if there's no market for it.... guess what.... I don't get paid. It can't get any more fair than that.

We created these leagues and we subsidize these leagues so that pro sports can exist for women, but apparently that's not good enough. The leagues are losing money and they need to be propped up, but that's not good enough. If they weren't subsidized and they were allowed to fail, do you think all those athletes would happily have back their 150-200k salaries?
 
Shaboid said:
I'm just going to throw this out there.... who has a daughter and who doesn't?
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I have both daughters and sons, granddaughters and grandsons....one of my granddaughters is a star soft ball player in San Diego and on a very good team with amazing support ...she's the only girl in the family who really focused on or even wanted to play sports...my older sons were skateboarders and hated team sports..they surfed and skateboarded and my youngest son loves sports like me and played soccer and basketball in school....still plays hoops today with his college buddies for fun....I was a baseball player...played basketball for fun but played baseball more seriously.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It isn't a pay cut. It's the going rate.

This would be like comparing all writers. There are some writers who do books. Some do screenplays. Some do articles for newspapers. Whichever form of writing you choose to pursue, you don't get to expect that they all pay the same. Similarly, not all athletes can expect the same level of pay. That's the business of entertainment. It's pretty cut and dry. If I write a book, I will either make money because it's a good book and people buy it, or I won't. Hell, it might not even be published. I would have sunk hours into writing something for nothing. No compensation at all. If a woman author writes a book that does better than me, and it makes a lot more money, is that fair? What if my book is objectively better written? There are a lot of very shitty books that make a ton of money because of the genre. Hell, there are some screenwriters that make GOOD money just writing those horrible Hallmark movies every year. If I write an objectively better script, or better book, is it fair that I'm not making the same pay? Yes, it's fair, because I'm trying to write what I want to write, and if there's no market for it.... guess what.... I don't get paid. It can't get any more fair than that.

We created these leagues and we subsidize these leagues so that pro sports can exist for women, but apparently that's not good enough. The leagues are losing money and they need to be propped up, but that's not good enough. If they weren't subsidized and they were allowed to fail, do you think all those athletes would happily have back their 150-200k salaries?
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It would be a pay cut compared to their other options.
 
riverman said:
I have both daughters and sons, granddaughters and grandsons....one of my granddaughters is a star soft ball player in San Diego and on a very good team with amazing support ...she's the only girl in the family who really focused on or even wanted to play sports...my older sons were skateboarders and hated team sports..they surfed and skateboarded and my youngest son loves sports like me and played soccer and basketball in school....still plays hoops today with his college buddies for fun....I was a baseball player...played basketball for fun but played baseball more seriously.
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Baseball is best, but I know I'm in the minority around here with that opinion.
 
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