Politics Brittney Griner

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Phatguysrule said:
You'd rather keep an innocent person in prison to be tortured than let a guilty man go free?

Insane.
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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

If people die as a result of him going free, was it worth it?
 
Phatguysrule said:
We got an innocent person out of a place she would have been tortured and tormented. There is nothing bad about that.
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Whether or not you agree that weed should be legal, you do agree that there are laws (even here in the US) that make marijuana illegal and that you can be punished for those laws, correct?

Do you think that she did not break the law in Russia?

I still maintain that when you leave our country and travel to another country, you are agreeing to adhere to the laws in said country. If you don't want to follow those laws, don't travel to that country.

Remember this story? https://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/27/...ngapore-tells-of-the-blood-and-the-scars.html
 
Natebishop3 said:
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

If people die as a result of him going free, was it worth it?
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Absolutely. We don't waste innocent American civilian lives in the hopes of saving other lives.

That is simply fear mongering and authoritarian thinking. This whole discussion is horrifying to me. We are truly on the path to fascism, and a large segment of our population is on board with it.
 
Phatguysrule said:
That is simply fear mongering and authoritarian thinking
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Go look up that guys history. It's not fear mongering. He has been instrumental in the deaths of a lot of people. What makes you think that he's going to change now?

If we had taken Osama Bin Laden alive, would you ever want to see him released? Do you think taking him out of circulation for 15 years would make him less dangerous?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Whether or not you agree that weed should be legal, you do agree that there are laws (even here in the US) that make marijuana illegal and that you can be punished for those laws, correct?

Do you think that she did not break the law in Russia?

I still maintain that when you leave our country and travel to another country, you are agreeing to adhere to the laws in said country. If you don't want to follow those laws, don't travel to that country.

Remember this story? https://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/27/...ngapore-tells-of-the-blood-and-the-scars.html
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I don't believe anybody should be in jail for the personal use of any substance.

I don't believe anything that resulted from any trial run by Russia, or any admission from her while in Russian custody.

I don't know that she committed any crime at all.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't believe anybody should be in jail for the personal use of any substance.
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That has no bearing whatsoever on this topic.

I don't believe anything that resulted from any trial run by Russia, or any admission from her while in Russian custody.

I don't know that she committed any crime at all.
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If you travel to a corrupt country, you are exposing yourself to their corrupt courts. Don't go to corrupt countries.
 
Natebishop3 said:
That has no bearing whatsoever on this topic.



If you travel to a corrupt country, you are exposing yourself to their corrupt courts. Don't go to corrupt countries.
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There should be no incentive for a person of her unique abilities and resulting high profile to visit such a country.

Unfortunately here in the US that isn't the case, so we expose ourselves and our ambassadors to these risks.
 
The idea that being sent to Russia is gaining your freedom is an oxymoron. Bout's assets were frozen long ago. He's broke. Broke in Russia in the winter....sounds like fuel for a depressing novel.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Go look up that guys history. It's not fear mongering. He has been instrumental in the deaths of a lot of people. What makes you think that he's going to change now?

If we had taken Osama Bin Laden alive, would you ever want to see him released? Do you think taking him out of circulation for 15 years would make him less dangerous?
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Sure. And I'd plant multiple GPS trackers in his ass and scoop him back up once we received the innocent civilian.
 
crandc said:
In other words, she deserved it. Go fuck yourself.

Repeat. Go fuck yourself.
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If someone ignores the signs on the beach that say, "Shark infested waters. No swimming" and they go swimming and get attacked by a shark, what do you say?

So fuck me for thinking someone is a fucking fool for traveling to Russia right before war breaks out? A war that we are clearly involved in?

Biden issued this warning about Ukraine on February 10th https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/wh...ave-ukraine-russia-troops-world-war-rcna15781

Griner was arrested on February 17th https://people.com/sports/brittney-griner-russia-arrest-and-trial-timeline/

The official warning about Russia didn't come until later that month, but how could anyone not see what was happening in that region? It's like traveling into Taliban territory during the war in Afghanistan, or into Iran. So rather than pay attention to geopolitical news, she went to Russia like nothing had changed and she got arrested.

Is that sad? Yes.
Was it preventable? Yes.

How the hell is she not partially responsible for the predicament that she was in? Russia is our enemy and we are fighting a proxy war against Russia in Ukraine right now. This seems to me like really basic common sense.
 
I don't believe anyone here thinks that Griner didn't use poor judgement, because she clearly did...but I don't think that's the crux of the discussion...just sayin'.
 
yankeesince59 said:
So Griner is only a little more at fault than Whelan...and also, I don't believe anyone here thinks that Griner didn't use poor judgement, because she clearly did...but I don't think that's the crux of the discussion...just sayin'.
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What's the crux of the discussion then?

Griner was arrested for weed. Whelan was arrested for espionage. I'd say those are massively different circumstances.
 
barfo said:
Yeah - after reading a bit more about him, I think he might be a spy, but not for the USA. Or maybe just a fool.

barfo
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Either way, his situation isn't nearly as cut and dry as Griner. The Russians won't tell us all the details, but based on his past the guy seems sketchy.
 
Natebishop3 said:
What's the crux of the discussion then?

Griner was arrested for weed. Whelan was arrested for espionage. I'd say those are massively different circumstances.
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Seems to me that for that last 2 pages or so, it's been whether or not Griner should have been released instead of Whelan, and whether it was a bad trade or not. I not defending Griner for using very poor judgement but I think that if we traded a "bad guy" for Griner and it was the only option Russia gave us, I say do it.

I also believe that the arms dealer isn't that much worse than the US or Russia or China or any other country who supplies/sells arms to other countries...the end result is the same, those weapons are designed to kill people.
 
Paul Whelan I've learned has US, British, Irish and Canadian passports and citizenship.....he's not just our problem....don't see folks bashing the Irish or Canadians or Brits for failing to bring him home.there's actually a good chance he is a spy, which would explain why Russia doesn't want to let him go. Bout had a 25 year sentence and had served 14 years of it already...had 11 years left on it.
 
riverman said:
Paul Whelan I've learned has US, British, Irish and Canadian passports and citizenship.....he's not just our problem....don't see folks bashing the Irish or Canadians or Brits for failing to bring him home.there's actually a good chance he is a spy, which would explain why Russia doesn't want to let him go. Bout had a 25 year sentence and had served 14 years of it already...had 11 years left on it.
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That's exactly why I don't understand those who view this as "a bad trade".
 
yankeesince59 said:
Seems to me that for that last 2 pages or so, it's been whether or not Griner should have been released instead of Whelan
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Not for me. I never brought him up until you guys did. I wouldn't have traded Bort for Whelan. I think Griner was clearly getting fucked over, but Whelan is another story. I don't know what's going on in his case. It's not a clear cut story like Griner. But either way, I'm not trading a dangerous arms dealer for either one of them.
 
Bort has been in US custody for over a decade. At this point, he is not very likely to be a real danger for a long time if ever. I wish we did not have to do the exchange and Griner certainly could have been more careful - but given the opportunity to do it, I am glad we did. If you have ever seen Americans around the world, too often we believe everything works exactly as we expect it to work in the US. Maybe some good will come out of it and more Americans will be more careful when getting out of the country.
 
andalusian said:
Bort has been in US custody for over a decade. At this point, he is not very likely to be a real danger for a long time if ever. I
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To me, it all depends on why the Russians wanted him back. Are they going to punish him? Or are they looking to leverage his skillset because they need weapons?
 
Natebishop3 said:
If someone ignores the signs on the beach that say, "Shark infested waters. No swimming" and they go swimming and get attacked by a shark, what do you say?

So fuck me for thinking someone is a fucking fool for traveling to Russia right before war breaks out? A war that we are clearly involved in?

Biden issued this warning about Ukraine on February 10th https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/wh...ave-ukraine-russia-troops-world-war-rcna15781

Griner was arrested on February 17th https://people.com/sports/brittney-griner-russia-arrest-and-trial-timeline/

The official warning about Russia didn't come until later that month, but how could anyone not see what was happening in that region? It's like traveling into Taliban territory during the war in Afghanistan, or into Iran. So rather than pay attention to geopolitical news, she went to Russia like nothing had changed and she got arrested.

Is that sad? Yes.
Was it preventable? Yes.

How the hell is she not partially responsible for the predicament that she was in? Russia is our enemy and we are fighting a proxy war against Russia in Ukraine right now. This seems to me like really basic common sense.
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Who the hell said she's not partially responsible? She's more than paid for any mistake she made in seeking supplemental income in Russia.
 
Natebishop3 said:
To me, it all depends on why the Russians wanted him back. Are they going to punish him? Or are they looking to leverage his skillset because they need weapons?
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I am willing to bet it is a publicity stunt, just like the initial arrest was. Putin is under pressure at home, he can now show his people that he is behind them hoping they will forget he is forcing a lot of them to fight in a war they do not want.
 
Natebishop3 said:
To me, it all depends on why the Russians wanted him back. Are they going to punish him? Or are they looking to leverage his skillset because they need weapons?
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If Russia wants to finish cutting their nose off that's on them. There is nothing this guy can do to make Russia a bigger threat than they already are.
 
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