Call it now--who won the Simmons/Harden trade?

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Who won the Simmons/Harden trade?

  • Morey--he was proven right for his refusal to settle

    Votes: 10 14.1%

  • Marks--Nets benefitted greatly from Morey's obsession with all-stars

    Votes: 34 47.9%

  • Both--Blockbuster team made both teams better; they'll probably meet in the playoffs

    Votes: 12 16.9%

  • Neither--Simmons/Harden lack the mentality necessary to elevate a team the way their talent should

    Votes: 15 21.1%
  • Total voters
    71
Natebishop3 said:
I said similar.

Not the same.

Harden is averaging
View attachment 45188

Obviously CJ isn't going to average nearly a triple double, but I think he could put up 24 ppg, 4-5 boards, and 8 assists if he's playing as the primary ball handler. He would also shoot a hell of a lot better than 41% from the field and 33% from three. Aside from the near triple double, Harden's shooting and PER are very mediocre compared to his career stats.

CJ's stats last year was 23, 5 assists and 4 boards. Stop acting like those aren't All-Star caliber numbers on way less money.
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No i don't think they are. And I don't think he should ever even be in the discussion to be an all star. Teams would be lining up to get him with way more than what we got from Pelicans.

Harden s TS% is way higher than CJ's even in his down year. So he is actually much more efficient on offense as well.
 
When does the investigation begin?
 
Question: If the Sixers are found guilty of tampering, the usual penalty (besides the removal of front office personnel responsible) is to take away a 1st round pick. Right now that 1st round pick belongs to the Nyets. I wonder how it would be handled?
 
Titan said:
I like where you are thinking
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I've seen all the teams up close and personal.
By far, Milwaukee and Memphis out impress every other team I've seen. (my job)..
Can't see the Bucks not winning it again.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Harden opting into his contract next season is a HUGE win for the 6ers. They don't have to give him that supermax this summer now. Two playoffs to see how it works with Embiid is where the most value comes from Harden.

It actually has similarities to the way Morey got Chris Paul from the Clippers. If Harden doesn't produce at prior levels Morey later probably will tell him "Hey I want to give you the supermax James, these damn 76ers owners will only let me give you a smaller reasonable contract" Harden can't get the supermax elsewhere so good chance he might even accept far less....... Hell one more thought I just thought of; will Harden now hit some over 36 rule on his contract preventing the 6ers from giving him as many years on a supermax?

I have to hand it to Morey, he played this situation about as good as could be done. Much better than all the shitty owners and franchise, even the Spurs, that traded away their star for lesser value.
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Nice take. I'd assume that the extension was part of the behind the scenes discussion and has been *wink* *wink* guaranteed. If not, frankly, that's a small, but very significant coup from Morey. Given Harden's trajectory and Embiid's injury history, I think it all comes down to 1) whether they win a championship this year or next; and 2) whether or not Harden gets that max or near-max extension.
 
maxiep said:
Question: If the Sixers are found guilty of tampering, the usual penalty (besides the removal of front office personnel responsible) is to take away a 1st round pick. Right now that 1st round pick belongs to the Nyets. I wonder how it would be handled?
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Take away their next one?

Void the trade?
 
maxiep said:
Question: If the Sixers are found guilty of tampering, the usual penalty (besides the removal of front office personnel responsible) is to take away a 1st round pick. Right now that 1st round pick belongs to the Nyets. I wonder how it would be handled?
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probably just 7 figure fines. Which they'd gladly pay. I just hope they get barred from making future trades by forcing a firing.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Wouldn't the same apply to the Nets?

I'd say the 6ers odds at a title went up more than the Nets this season.
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Not in my opinion, no.
1) Simmons is a better fit for Brooklyn than Harden was. Irving & Harden made no sense to me.
2) Harden is getting older, has injury issues.
3) The Nets were pigeon holed by Harden, so they virtually had no choice.
4) The sixers could’ve sent Ben anywhere and probably received better assets (in my opinion).
5) The Nets pretty much accepted the best possible deal, while I have a hard time believing the 76ers couldn’t have robbed somebody like the Kings for Halliburton.
6) Harden is gonna get paid 50 mill+ as he continues to age and faces more injury issues.
7) I think a Healthy nets team would absolutely work the 76ers. Frankly, I’m sure the betting odds improved, but I think the 76ers are less likely to win a chip now. I wouldn’t count on Harden’s hamstring making it thru the playoffs, but assuming both teams are healthy… this trade makes the Nets a lot better than it makes the sixers, in my opinion. Part of that is Simmons playing with Irving and KD makes a lot more sense than Harden ever did, if only because Simmons for all his faults, is an amazing defender.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Not if they are five, six, seven years out. Do you think Dame is carrying a team to a great regular season record on a huge contract at 38?
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Getting picks “5, 6, or 7 years out” means absolutely Jack shit to me, and pretty much everyone else, including the GM who would make such a stupid trade, and most likely lose his job. If you’re trading Dame, you’re doing it so you can have a rebuild FINISHED in the next 3 years. Not so you’re waiting a fucking decade to even hope to reap rewards for trading him.
 
Three Aussies, a Kiwi, and a Canuck; Marks is slowly assembling the British Commonwealth.
 
It's a tall order to get everyone back playing (not just on the road), healthy, and in the right mental headspace, but the following closing lineup is legit:

Irving - Curry - Harris - Simmons - Durant

The spacing around Simmons is as good as you could ever hope for; Simmons would be allowed to operate as a center on offense; and Durant is like the perfect complement to Simmons on the defensive side, in which you have premium spacing on offense without sacrificing size and length (at least in your 4 and 5 spots) on defense. Purely as a fan of basketball, I hope we get to see it.
 
I think both teams got better this season. The Nets got a very unique player who can guard every position better than anyone else in the league, he has really high basketball IQ, he sees the court really well, he has one of the best handles in the league, he's a helluva rebounder and when he commits to doing it he's a fantastic finisher at the hole on offense. They also got Seth who is a difference maker whether off the bench or starting. They got a huge big who is probably not the best but adds something. They even got two first rounders.

The Sixers got a player that they've needed forever, a perimeter scorer and facilitator and they got the best one in the game. They got Millsap who seems as washed as Drummond. They still have Thybulle, Maxey, Green, Shake and obviously still Toby and Embiid. They got better today but gave up a lot to do it.
 
Graduate32 said:
It's a tall order to get everyone back playing (not just on the road), healthy, and in the right mental headspace, but the following closing lineup is legit:

Irving - Curry - Harris - Simmons - Durant

The spacing around Simmons is as good as you could ever hope for; Simmons would be allowed to operate as a center on offense; and Durant is like the perfect complement to Simmons on the defensive side, in which you have premium spacing on offense without sacrificing size and length (at least in your 4 and 5 spots) on defense. Purely as a fan of basketball, I hope we get to see it.
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Harris' ankle might keep him off the court the rest of the season--there's a possibility of it needing a second surgery.
 
maxiep said:
Question: If the Sixers are found guilty of tampering, the usual penalty (besides the removal of front office personnel responsible) is to take away a 1st round pick. Right now that 1st round pick belongs to the Nyets. I wonder how it would be handled?
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Maybe they can take the 2024 pick away, I don't think the NBA has to abide by the Stephen rule.
 
Predator said:
Getting picks “5, 6, or 7 years out” means absolutely Jack shit to me, and pretty much everyone else, including the GM who would make such a stupid trade, and most likely lose his job. If you’re trading Dame, you’re doing it so you can have a rebuild FINISHED in the next 3 years. Not so you’re waiting a fucking decade to even hope to reap rewards for trading him.
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Picks are like currency to acquire players. You want picks to have the best chance of being in the lottery as that is when they are worth more. A pick many years out when the current stars are old and a franchise that is good now could be much much worse have a lot more value. Thats how Boston got Tatum and Brown from the Nets.

But the Blazers wouldn't be locked into having to keep those picks until they draft a player and keep that player to contend. If they get to a point where they have an allstar on the roster, then they could flip all those picks for a second allstar and contend.

Rebuilding after a Dame trade is not something that gets done in 3 years. If that is the case just keep Dame and try to win with him when he's 34. Trading Dame for a rebuild is going to be a much longer process, so buckle up.
 
Harden has peaked. He’s overweight and injury-prone. The Nets got one of the best defenders in the league, one of the best shooters, a rebounding beast of a center, and two first-round picks.

Nets win the trade hands down.
 
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SlyPokerDog said:
Morey, hate to say it but he was right not to settle. Ending up with Harden out of that mess is amazing.
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This would be true if it was the same James Harden he tried to acquire from Houston for the same package 2 years ago. It ain't.
 
Oh, lol. Embid and Harden in one team? This will be funnier than Lakers with Westbrook.
 
royo said:
Oh, lol. Embid and Harden in one team? This will be funnier than Lakers with Westbrook.
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At least their games fit together. I don't think this will be a mess; I just also don't think it will be nirvana either.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Has nothing to do with the Blazers, but whatever--it's a big enough deal that it's worthy of a thread. Where do you come down in regard to this blockbuster trade?
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I gotta tell you this fills me with rage that not only did we not get Simmons, not only did Morey get the perfect complement to Embiid without giving up anything other than Simmons who wasn't playing anyways but also the Blazers trades look EVEN WORSE now. Holy crap! The Nets won the trade hands down IMO in terms of fit and what flows from this. That said both teams are much, much better now. THIS is what a real trade looks like. God damn. Maybe we do need to blow it up. I see the Nets being in the finals and probably winning it all after this if KD, Kyrie, and Simmons are all healthy. Man all the assholes won this trade. Harden, Simmons, and Morey all end up getting what they wanted in a weird way. Yuck.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
Brooklyn got the best out of this. Not sure there is an argument the other way?
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maybe

but from Philly's perspective they traded Curry, Drumond, and a couple of late first round picks for Harden. Simmons was just salary filler who was never going to play for them again. That's a pretty good return for 2 role players
 
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