Can gay people be Christian?

[Further]

Why?

Because their services take forever and kill any attempt at watching the early NFL games on Sunday. And maybe rape.

 

[magnifier661]

Is it the openly part that makes it a sin or the gay part? Is openly gay a sin but closeted gay not a sin or is being gay the sin?

And again, not trying to challenge you. Just trying to understand what you're saying.

Being open or closed doesnt matter. I think one that open or closed practicing adultery is the same thing. Same with anything in the bible. There isn't a single person on this planet more justified than the other with works.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Being open or closed doesnt matter. I think one that open or closed practicing adultery is the same thing. Same with anything in the bible. There isn't a single person on this planet more justified than the other with works.

I don't think that being gay and committing adultery are the same. You can choose to stop sinning, in other words to stop committing adultery but you can't choose to stop being gay just like a person can't choose to stop being straight. Sins in the bible seem to be acts of choice. Lying, murder, stealing, etc. As far as I know being gay isn't a choice so how can it be a sin?

 

[magnifier661]

I don't think that being gay and committing adultery are the same. You can choose to stop sinning, in other words to stop committing adultery but you can't choose to stop being gay just like a person can't choose to stop being straight. Sins in the bible seem to be acts of choice. Lying, murder, stealing, etc. As far as I know being gay isn't a choice so how can it be a sin?

That's a good point. Maybe you're right? Maybe the choice to be gay when you're actually not a sin? Who knows. For me; I really don't care. I'd be just as close to a gay Christian as I would to a straight one. They are brothers and sisters in Christ for all I care.

 

[magnifier661]

Sly, does that mean our homosexual love affair can be out in the open? It's been really bothering me!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Sly, does that mean our homosexual love affair can be out in the open? It's been really bothering me!

I'm straight but I choose to be gay with you so if you want our sin to be out in the open I'm okay with that.

 

[MarAzul]

I'm straight but I choose to be gay with you so if you want our sin to be out in the open I'm okay with that.

Straight? Oh I expect you can BS with the best, Sly.

By the way, the book "Who Wrote the Bible" is a good read for anyone interested in more insight
to the Old Testament. Mostly written by the Hebrew Rabbi's of
Judah and Israel. You may have noticed there are several instances of same story told in two different ways. Well different Rabbi's telling the story from the Israel view or the Ruling tribe of Judah. Saul, David, and Salomon were all of Judah and therefore the politically powerful tribe.

The Christians take this book as the word of God, I am not so sure the Jews do and I am not at all sure the Christians should.

 

[ABM]

As far as I know being gay isn't a choice so how can it be a sin?

It is a choice, though.

Genesis 2:18, 24 - The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”.......That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

It is a choice, though.

So you believe that being gay is a sin?

 

[ABM]

So you believe that being gay is a sin?

I believe what the Bible says about it. It's pretty clear.

 

[crandc]

ABM, when and how did you choose to be straight?

I have known gay men and lesbians who were evangelical Christians, Mormons, Muslims, Orthodox Jews. Not just liberal churches and synagogues who accept all people as equal human beings. And it's a real conflict. Because they believe, or say they do, in the doctrines. So they either have to say the doctrine is what I believe except what it says about me, or accept that their mere existence on the planet is evil.

I have no conflict. I know, having studied biology, that sexual variation including what we call gay, lesbian, bi and transgender, exist in every known animal species including our closest primate relatives, and that people whom we now call gay, lesbian, bi and transgender have existed in every known human society, past and present, even the most repressive. It is also clear from family studies that being gay is genetic; hard to find a gay person with no gay relatives (my family tree is positively crawling). Clearly sexual variation is natural although the exact genetic mechanisms are unknown. And since I don't believe in any god throwing thunderbolts and don't believe in eternal burning hell, I can just live my life. I may have 100 problems but being gay is not one of them. I no more chose my sexual orientation than I did my blue eyes or right handedness or femaleness, they all just exist. Some say female and gay are inferior. They are full of shit.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

ABM, when and how did you choose to be straight?

I have known gay men and lesbians who were evangelical Christians, Mormons, Muslims, Orthodox Jews. Not just liberal churches and synagogues who accept all people as equal human beings. And it's a real conflict. Because they believe, or say they do, in the doctrines. So they either have to say the doctrine is what I believe except what it says about me, or accept that their mere existence on the planet is evil.

I have no conflict. I know, having studied biology, that sexual variation including what we call gay, lesbian, bi and transgender, exist in every known animal species including our closest primate relatives, and that people whom we now call gay, lesbian, bi and transgender have existed in every known human society, past and present, even the most repressive. It is also clear from family studies that being gay is genetic; hard to find a gay person with no gay relatives (my family tree is positively crawling). Clearly sexual variation is natural although the exact genetic mechanisms are unknown. And since I don't believe in any god throwing thunderbolts and don't believe in eternal burning hell, I can just live my life. I may have 100 problems but being gay is not one of them. I no more chose my sexual orientation than I did my blue eyes or right handedness or femaleness, they all just exist. Some say female and gay are inferior. They are full of shit.

People who don't believe in evolution aren't or won't believe in genetics.

 

[ABM]

ABM, when and how did you choose to be straight?

Because I didn't want to be crooked?

That said, I believe the Bible in its entirety. It also teaches that premarital sex between a man and a woman is a sin.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Because I didn't want to be crooked?

That said, I believe the Bible in its entirety. It also teaches that premarital sex between a man and a woman is a sin.

It also says it's okay to rape a woman as long as you marry her afterwards.

 

[ABM]

It also says it's okay to rape a woman as long as you marry her afterwards.

Whatever your conscience will bear, son.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Because I didn't want to be crooked?

That said, I believe the Bible in its entirety. It also teaches that premarital sex between a man and a woman is a sin.

So you don't wear fabric of wool and linen woven together?

 

[ABM]

So you don't wear fabric of wool and linen woven together?

Not since I quit sporting a kilt.

 

[Further]

ABM, I think the point is YOU are choosing to recognize this part of the bible, but you shave, you likely wear mixed fabrics, you eat shellfish, you consider rape wrong under all circumstances, you frown upon the bible promoting the activity of slavey and more.

YOU are the one you is deciding. Why not realize that just as the bible was wrong about slavery, it is wrong about gays. Honestly, forget the bible for a moment and imagine yourself in a one on one conversation with Jesus (who never spoke of homosexuality). With all you know about Jesus, who cares for all, who helps and does not judge. If you actually got to speak to Jesus, what do you think he would say about homosexuality?

 

[magnifier661]

ABM, I think the point is YOU are choosing to recognize this part of the bible, but you shave, you likely wear mixed fabrics, you eat shellfish, you consider rape wrong under all circumstances, you frown upon the bible promoting the activity of slavey and more.

YOU are the one you is deciding. Why not realize that just as the bible was wrong about slavery, it is wrong about gays. Honestly, forget the bible for a moment and imagine yourself in a one on one conversation with Jesus (who never spoke of homosexuality). With all you know about Jesus, who cares for all, who helps and does not judge. If you actually got to speak to Jesus, what do you think he would say about homosexuality?

He would tell you "the man without sin cast the first stone" like he did to the mob that wanted to stone a prostitute.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

ABM, I think the point is YOU are choosing to recognize this part of the bible, but you shave, you likely wear mixed fabrics, you eat shellfish, you consider rape wrong under all circumstances, you frown upon the bible promoting the activity of slavey and more.

YOU are the one you is deciding. Why not realize that just as the bible was wrong about slavery, it is wrong about gays. Honestly, forget the bible for a moment and imagine yourself in a one on one conversation with Jesus (who never spoke of homosexuality). With all you know about Jesus, who cares for all, who helps and does not judge. If you actually got to speak to Jesus, what do you think he would say about homosexuality?

I think one of the strengths of Christianity is that they are able to reinterpret the bible and find new meanings for passages that more accurately fit with modern society.

I'll be the first to admit that I have intentionally given ABM a bad time about different passages from the bible. When I do he provides a link that explains what that really means and how that meaning fits within excepted believes.

Compared to other religions Christianity is able to grow and is somewhat malleable while keeping the basic core of beliefs intact. Now it does take some kicking and screaming at times but it does eventually catch up and eventually embrace accepted society norms.

 

[BigGameDamian]

How about all those gay people living a lie going to Christian functions?

 

[tlongII]

I consider ABM my friend, but I believe he is completely wrong about the Bible. It is a work of fiction referencing some true events.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I consider ABM my friend, but I believe he is completely wrong about the Bible. It is a work of fiction referencing some true events.

Would you be willing to wager your soul that you're right and ABM is wrong?

 

[MarAzul]

Would you be willing to wager your soul that you're right and ABM is wrong?

Depends on the wager and when I get the payoff. If I have to wait until judgement day, forget about it.

I am not sure there is one thing absolutely correct about the Bible. But you can glean out a philosophy of life that is the best on earth.

So to bicker is rather pointless. Gays can be Christians but it will work best if they refrain from sticking a thumb in the Christian eye trying to make them accept which they do not even want to know. Pretty simple really

 

[ABM]

I do appreciate everyone's feedback. While it would be a challenge to lead someone to the Lord in here, I will ALWAYS unabashedly stand up for my faith in Christ. I also love the fact that I can even start threads stating such. Yet another reason I enjoy S2 (thank you, Mods!).

While still very much a sinner, I know what Christ has done in my life, and will continue to do (this is called the sanctification process). As stated, many of you can't understand why I would believe in some kind of unknown entity. Prior to coming to Christ, I was in that same boat, trust me. My dad was a pastor and I wanted NOTHING to do with their God and their ways. I left the church when I was 13 and completely rejected their faith for nearly 20 years.....that is, until God got hold of me in the privacy of my home (I was completely sober just in case you were wondering)....and I "genuinely" gave my life to Him. As stated numerous times, I've never regretted that decision.....ever.

 

[tlongII]

I choose to seek the truth.

 

[crowTrobot]

I am not sure there is one thing absolutely correct about the Bible. But you can glean out a philosophy of life that is the best on earth.

"glean" = apply what you already know to pick and choose.

also I'm guessing whatever beneficial philosophy you think qualifies as the "Christian way" can be found in Buddhism which predates Christianity.

 

[magnifier661]

I choose to seek the truth.

You will one day. Remember me when it happens.

 

[Further]

I do appreciate everyone's feedback. While it would be a challenge to lead someone to the Lord in here, I will ALWAYS unabashedly stand up for my faith in Christ. I also love the fact that I can even start threads stating such. Yet another reason I enjoy S2 (thank you, Mods!).

ABM, while you and I disagree about much, we agree with each other on how nice it is that we can openly have these discussions. Here on S2, our two worlds can civilly interact and we can laugh together.

Also, I want you personally to know that although I attack some of your beliefs, I try to do it with respect, and I do like you and am better for hearing your thoughts.



That being said, if you feel like answering the question in my last post, I am genuinely interested in how you believe that discussion with Jesus would go. I won't attack your response, I'll simply read it, thank you, and move on.

 

[ABM]

ABM, while you and I disagree about much, we agree with each other on how nice it is that we can openly have these discussions. Here on S2, our two worlds can civilly interact and we can laugh together.

Also, I want you personally to know that although I attack some of your beliefs, I try to do it with respect, and I do like you and am better for hearing your thoughts.



That being said, if you feel like answering the question in my last post, I am genuinely interested in how you believe that discussion with Jesus would go. I won't attack your response, I'll simply read it, thank you, and move on.

I appreciate that.

I'll definitely respond. Can I get back to you tomorrow, though? Remind me. I will share my thoughts for sure.

Thanks.