Politics Can Pete Buttigieg beat Trump? (1 Viewer)

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donkiez said:
I think the big issue with Barfo's gripe is assuming Bernie supporters were democrats and involved in the political process before Bernie reached them. Many "Bernie Bros' were not part of the equation at all before Bernie was part of the equation. The rest of the DNC is doing their part in alienating Bernie supporters then expecting them to vote for a party that they only identify with because of Bernie. Instead Bernie should be acknowledged for his ability to reach new voters and bring them into the process rather than chastised for not making them part of the establishment. His appeal is that he is not part of the establishment and if he tried he would lose those supporters himself. The amount of people who Bernie (or potentially Warren) can reach is arguably greater than the amount of independents who will be gained with a moderate candidate.
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You could also say the Democrats should give Trump their nomination, because Trump brings a lot of voters that would never vote Democratic otherwise.
If Bernie supporters aren't democrats and won't support any other democrat, what good are they to the party? No more use than Trump supporters.

If the DNC wanted to reach these voters they would do two things. 1) Acknowledge that the party is evolving and has a large progressive wing that wants to be taken seriously.
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No, you just said that this supposed 'progressive wing' isn't actually part of the party and won't vote for anyone but their candidate.

2) insist on a transparent legitimate process to select a nominee and move forward with whatever those results are.
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Agree with that, and they are actually trying. Note, however, that it was Bernie that made the IA caucuses even worse. Because caucuses favor him, even though they are a lot messier than regular primaries. And he lobbied for the multiple-ways-to-count-the-results option.

If both of those points were an agenda for the DNC then even if Bernie lost his supporters would be more likely to accept it and become part of the process which would grow the DNC base considerably.
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Didn't we do that last time? Shouldn't those Bernie voters now be part of the party? Or are they only going to join if Bernie is the nominee? In which case, they aren't really joining the party.

barfo
 
barfo said:
You could also say the Democrats should give Trump their nomination, because Trump brings a lot of voters that would never vote Democratic otherwise.
If Bernie supporters aren't democrats and won't support any other democrat, what good are they to the party? No more use than Trump supporters.
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They are not part of the party until they are. Either the party reaches out to them or the lose them or they come around. I think the safest bet for the DNC is to reach out to them.

barfo said:
No, you just said that this supposed 'progressive wing' isn't actually part of the party and won't vote for anyone but their candidate.
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The progressive wing is bigger than Bernie, Bernie is a subgroup of the progressives. There are plenty of progressives who will vote democratic but feel shitty about doing it.

barfo said:
Agree with that, and they are actually trying. Note, however, that it was Bernie that made the IA caucuses even worse. Because caucuses favor him, even though they are a lot messier than regular primaries. And he lobbied for the multiple-ways-to-count-the-results option.
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Ok its all Bernie's fault? You keep bringing this up like it matters. A lot of what was agreed on was a compromise by both sides. The actual caucus was not the center issue in Iowa, the lights out deck shuffling was the problem. But really if the DNC cared, they would have made primary and election reform a primary topic on January 1, 2017. A fair, transparent, legitimate process benefits everyone.

barfo said:
Didn't we do that last time? Shouldn't those Bernie voters now be part of the party? Or are they only going to join if Bernie is the nominee? In which case, they aren't really joining the party.
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I dont know, ask them. They obviously feel like the DNC has not addressed their needs. Maybe they should just get out of the club, I dont think they feel like they are invited anyway.
 
I think it would help in tonights debate if Bernie soften it a bit against billionaires and corporations and Pete being supported by big money.
 
Pete, you did a lousy job of managing paltry South Bend, IN and now you want to manage the country?

Please
 
Hoopguru said:
I think it would help in tonights debate if Bernie soften it a bit against billionaires and corporations and Pete being supported by big money.
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Why would that help? That's basically his platform.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
This is the kind of slogan you come up with when you literally have no principles and stand for nothing:


(I'd still vote for him over Trump, of course.)
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The issues that are the issues are the issues that I stand for.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Not one post in this thread mentions Pete is gay. Which is awesome.
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It is. It’s simply not relevant. It’s no reason to hate or like a person. I personally don’t like him for political reasons but who he loves means zero to me in a policy debate.
 
Hoopguru said:
I think it would help in tonights debate if Bernie soften it a bit against billionaires and corporations and Pete being supported by big money.
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Bernie need to just keep doing Bernie. He’s the #1 Democratic candidate right now. The billionaire thing is one of the only traits that sets him apart from the other candidates and it’s obviously hitting home with a lot of people. You might come up with some advice for the others who are trailing him.
 
ABM said:
Pete, you did a lousy job of managing paltry South Bend, IN and now you want to manage the country?

Please
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Trump, you're a draft dodger and have no moral fiber, you defaulted on countless business bank loans, got your start from Daddy's money & in 2016 you wanted to manage the country?

Please.
 
jonnyboy said:
Bernie need to just keep doing Bernie. He’s the #1 Democratic candidate right now. The billionaire thing is one of the only traits that sets him apart from the other candidates and it’s obviously hitting home with a lot of people. You might come up with some advice for the others who are trailing him.
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trailing now. Wait till he goes to the South, SE & Mid West. If all he's going to do is demonized billionaires and corporations it will work against him. Just my opinion
 
yankeesince59 said:
Trump, you're a draft dodger and have no moral fiber, you defaulted on countless business bank loans, got your start from Daddy's money & in 2016 you wanted to manage the country?

Please.
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Trump is Prez. Meanwhile, Pete is a wannabe.

Please.
 
Hoopguru said:
trailing now. Wait till he goes to the South, SE & Mid West. If all he's going to do is demonized billionaires and corporations it will work against him. Just my opinion
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Tbh, his policies really aren’t that batshit crazy. Providing healthcare and education through tax dollars aren’t exactly the full blown communist nightmare the hard-lined Republicans make them out to be. You can flush your money down a giant military contractor-built toilet in the Middle East, or you can give people healthcare for the same price or less. The answer is really becoming more obvious to me as I watch the people around me struggle. A single medical emergency when you’re in between jobs can decide if you’re ever able to own a home or start a business. That’s fucked.
 
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jonnyboy said:
“Blue no matter who” is a bullshit bully tactic
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Why? The Dems values align far more with mine than the GOP, especially these days. I would vote for any Democrat over Trump, even Bernie, and he is just about my last choice.
 
I do think that if Bernie had never labeled himself a Socialist, he would run away with the whole thing and beat Trump fairly easily. His economic program would likely benefit and resonate with those folks in the Midwest who switched parties and voted for Trump.

But in this country, the S tag would be fatal. Hell, if the Republicans could turn a war hero like John Kerry into a swift boating draft dodger, imagine what they would do to Bernie the Socialist.

#Bloomberg2020 is where I think I am headed!
 
ABM said:
Trump is Prez. Meanwhile, Pete is a wannabe.

Please.
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Not surprised that the distinct reference to "2016" escaped you. If you're gonna play, please try to keep things in their proper context.
 
Stevenson said:
I do think that if Bernie had never labeled himself a Socialist, he would run away with the whole thing and beat Trump fairly easily.
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Funny how he's doing better than everybody who DIDN'T label themselves a Socialist. There's a whole generation (or two) who grew up after the cold war and socialism is no longer the boogieman. Socialism means affordable healthcare and a social safety net, like in Scandinavia. These are different times, and you need different candidates to beat Trump. No traditional Democratic candidate this time round comes with the air of inevitability that Clinton did, and look what happened to her.
 
Stevenson said:
Why? The Dems values align far more with mine than the GOP, especially these days. I would vote for any Democrat over Trump, even Bernie, and he is just about my last choice.
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That’s perfectly fair. But if you feel your candidate was blatantly ripped off and you decide not to support a fucked up election system, that’s fair too. I just don’t agree with the pressure the “vote blue no matter who” people put on other Dem voters, as if it is their civic duty to partake in something they don’t agree with.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
This is the kind of slogan you come up with when you literally have no principles and stand for nothing:


(I'd still vote for him over Trump, of course.)
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I'd vote for Sly over Trump and that's saying something.
 
barfo said:
Not unusual for high school students to think Bernie is cool.

barfo
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After that last incident with you, I told you to leave me alone. I meant it.

You are banned from me. Don't quote me or try to contact me, ever.
 
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