Politics Can Sanders beat Trump?

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Does anyone actually believe Bernie will even live another 5 years?
 
MARIS61 said:
Does anyone actually believe Bernie will even live another 5 years?
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His VP pick would be more consequential than most.

And it's really unclear who that would be, at this point. There's nobody who is an obvious pick.

barfo
 
barfo said:
His VP pick would be more consequential than most.

And it's really unclear who that would be, at this point. There's nobody who is an obvious pick.

barfo
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Usually your VP is meant to shore up a weakness. So Obama picked Biden to woo the Republican-esque Democrats. Where is Bernie's weakness? HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE!!!!

Okay, there seem to be a lot of women who find him offputting, but mainly it's because of the "Bernie Bros". People who genuinely loved Hillary (hard to believe there were such people, but there you go) loathe Bernie. And it's getting a bit like that with Warren supporters. But if (a) Warren dropped out in time, and (b) she agreed, that would be a very left-heavy ticket. But then again, can you see Bernie really tolerating a right-of-center old-fashioned Democrat? I dunno.

Wasn't there talk of Stacy Abrams at one point? Or was that Biden?
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Usually your VP is meant to shore up a weakness. So Obama picked Biden to woo the Republican-esque Democrats. Where is Bernie's weakness? HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE!!!!
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Well, there's his heart...

Okay, there seem to be a lot of women who find him offputting, but mainly it's because of the "Bernie Bros". People who genuinely loved Hillary (hard to believe there were such people, but there you go) loathe Bernie. And it's getting a bit like that with Warren supporters. But if (a) Warren dropped out in time, and (b) she agreed, that would be a very left-heavy ticket. But then again, can you see Bernie really tolerating a right-of-center old-fashioned Democrat? I dunno.
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You are saying he's intolerant? That would be another weakness.

Wasn't there talk of Stacy Abrams at one point? Or was that Biden?
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I think that was for Biden, but probably she works for Bernie equally well (or poorly, depending).

barfo
 
If Sanders wanted to "play politics," he'd probably try to pick up someone like Amy Klobuchar as a running mate, to diversify the ticket a bit while also seeming to throw a bone to the centrists.

It wouldn't surprise me if Sanders picked someone who's not really on the national radar that he felt better aligned with his principles.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Where is Bernie's weakness? HE DOESN'T
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Bernie has a ton of weaknesses the Rep will exploit if it is a Bernie/Trump final race. It will get very ugly for Bernie.

By and far Bernie's biggest weakness is the very platform he is running on. It is built on quicksand, and can not work. Even the DNC has said so.

Bernie only throws the numbers around that sound good. But he fails to include the affect his changes would have by reducing the tax revenues in other areas. One example he uses is the corporate tax Amazon pays.

Think about this. If Amazon does not pay tax on profits, where do the profits go? A. The stock holders, who then pay taxes on the profits as income, but at a higher rate than the corporate tax rate.

Bernies plan talks about the extra taxes raised by increasing the corporate tax. But he fails to include the amount of the taxes lost by moving the profits away for stockholders income.

Bermie's plan is so full of holes. There is a very good chance his plan will reduce total tax revenues, while seriously increasing spending. Bernies plan could turn our country into ruins.
 
oldfisherman said:
Think about this. If Amazon does not pay tax on profits, where do the profits go? A. The stock holders, who then pay taxes on the profits as income, but at a higher rate than the corporate tax rate.
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Well, that isn't entirely accurate. Untaxed profits don't necessarily go to the stockholders directly. They do increase the value of the stock, maybe that is recognized by an increase in the stock price, maybe that motivates some stockholders to sell to capture gains, at which point they pay capital gains tax. The capital gains tax rate is lower than the corporate tax rate, not higher. Of course, that's the nominal rate; as we've seen the corporate tax rate can be zero, and various deductions can apply for personal taxes as well.

Stockholders aren't forced to sell, though, so there's no guaranteed tax collection.

barfo
 
Minstrel said:
It wouldn't surprise me if Sanders picked someone who's not really on the national radar that he felt better aligned with his principles.
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But they are all dead... Che, Chavez, Castro, Lenin, Marx, Mao...

barfo
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Usually your VP is meant to shore up a weakness. So Obama picked Biden to woo the Republican-esque Democrats. Where is Bernie's weakness? HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE!!!!

Okay, there seem to be a lot of women who find him offputting, but mainly it's because of the "Bernie Bros". People who genuinely loved Hillary (hard to believe there were such people, but there you go) loathe Bernie. And it's getting a bit like that with Warren supporters. But if (a) Warren dropped out in time, and (b) she agreed, that would be a very left-heavy ticket. But then again, can you see Bernie really tolerating a right-of-center old-fashioned Democrat? I dunno.

Wasn't there talk of Stacy Abrams at one point? Or was that Biden?
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haha oh my...
 
barfo said:
Well, that isn't entirely accurate. Untaxed profits don't necessarily go to the stockholders directly. They do increase the value of the stock, maybe that is recognized by an increase in the stock price, maybe that motivates some stockholders to sell to capture gains, at which point they pay capital gains tax. The capital gains tax rate is lower than the corporate tax rate, not higher. Of course, that's the nominal rate; as we've seen the corporate tax rate can be zero, and various deductions can apply for personal taxes as well.

Stockholders aren't forced to sell, though, so there's no guaranteed tax collection.

barfo
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Profits can affect the price of the stock. And there maybe a lower tax rate on profits from selling stocks to incourage long term investment that create jobs. But.

You failed to explain where the profits go. (So does Bernie)

Some of the profits are paid out to stockholders as dividends. Dividends are taxed at the same rate as wage income, not corporate tax rate.

Some of the profit is invested back into the company to increase jobs. Jobs that create large amounts of tax revenue that supports many social programs. Increasing corporate taxes decreases job creation.

I'm not even going to get into all of the hidden taxes businesses pays just for the priviledge on gambling large amounts of money for a better life.
 
oldfisherman said:
Profits can affect the price of the stock. And there maybe a lower tax rate on profits from selling stocks to incourage long term investment that create jobs. But.

You failed to explain where the profits go. (So does Bernie)
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You didn't ask me to.

Some of the profits are paid out to stockholders as dividends.
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Maybe in the general case, but you specifically used Amazon as your example. Amazon doesn't pay dividends.

Dividends are taxed at the same rate as wage income, not corporate tax rate.
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No, most dividends are taxed at the capital gains rate.

Some of the profit is invested back into the company to increase jobs. Jobs that create large amounts of tax revenue that supports many social programs. Increasing corporate taxes decreases job creation.
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That can be. Certainly in the case of Amazon, they do invest in growth.

I'm not even going to get into all of the hidden taxes businesses pays just for the priviledge on gambling large amounts of money for a better life.
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Life's rough, eh? And then you die.

barfo
 
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barfo said:
You didn't ask me to.



No, most dividends are taxed at the capital gains rate.



barfo
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Actually, I did ask.

Ordinary dividend income is reported on IRS form schedule B, part II. The total is then entered on form 1040 line 3b. The dividends are added to wages as part of the adjusted gross income.

There are some exceptions that may qualify for different tax rates, such as qualified dividends and nondividend distributions.
 
oldfisherman said:
Actually, I did ask.

Ordinary dividend income is reported on IRS form schedule B, part II. The total is then entered on form 1040 line 3b. The dividends are added to wages as part of the adjusted gross income.

There are some exceptions that may qualify for different tax rates, such as qualified dividends and nondividend distributions.
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Most dividends are qualified dividends.

And as for what happens to profits that are not paid as tax - since you asked - the company can do what they like with them.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Most dividends are qualified dividends.

And as for what happens to profits that are not paid as tax - since you asked - the company can do what they like with them.

barfo
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Can not find any stats to confirm or debunk your first statement. IRS states to treat all dividends as ordinary untill they meet requirements to be qualified.

Second comment. You should run for office. Bernie has nothing on you for making vague salad statements and circular arguments.
 
oldfisherman said:
Can not find any stats to confirm or debunk your first statement. IRS states to treat all dividends as ordinary untill they meet requirements to be qualified.
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For regular people, the only requirement for a dividend to be qualified is for you to have held the stock for 60 days before the dividend is paid.

Second comment. You should run for office. Bernie has nothing on you for making vague salad statements and circular arguments.
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Not disputing your statement here in general, but my specific statement was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth: Companies are free to do whatever they want with money they don't pay in tax. They can hire people, they can invest in equipment, increase inventory, pay the CEO a bonus, distribute it to shareholders, buy back shares, save it for a rainy day, spend it on employee healthcare, buy a corporate jet... literally anything they choose.

barfo
 
SportsAndWhine said:
I’m more worried about who can beat Donald Trump in 2024, 2028, and 2032.
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Beat him at what, going to prison, grabbing the pussy of that pretty little blond that works for him?
 
Lanny said:
I doubt they will remove prison term limits for Trump. He probably won't get life.
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real talk, I don’t think trump will be the least bit punished for his illegal acts, but I appreciate the optimism.
 
55% of Americans now own stocks. This includes stocks in retirement funds such as 401, IRA, and mutual funds.

Serious question.
IF Sanders, or any Dem, becomes president and implements higher corporate taxes. What affect will higher corporate taxes have on the value of retirement funds and stocks owned as investments?

55% of the people would like to know.
 
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oldfisherman said:
55% of Americans now own stocks. This includes stocks in retirement funds such as 401, IRA, and mutual funds.

Serious question.
IF Sanders, or any Dem, becomes president and implements higher corporate taxes. What affect will higher corporate taxes have on the value of retirement funds and stocks owned as investments?

55% of the people would like to know.
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Thats why the Nordic countries treat corporations as contributors so all citizens can pay and extremely high fed tax to support their programs. Now with more and more immigration challenges with many not working or contributing its creating issues with citizens as they are paying the high tax for those that wont contribute.
 
I just can’t see how Sanders can even get 1/4 of his proposals done even if the Dems won House and senate somehow. I mean think about it...

Healthcare for all (including illegals)
College for all
Green new deal
Internet for all
Etc.

Even if you taxed the 1% at 100% you ain’t even touching the budget needed for that shit. It would mean, us, the average American footing the tax bill, while yes you get services but what will the quality be? Everything else will be far more expensive too with Green New deal proposals.

Economically this is suicide.
 
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