OT Casey Holdahl tweet

[Minstrel]

People that wanted more would demand more for goods and services. The "admittedly limited" part should be the most admittedly important.

The "admittedly limited" meant that the experiments had limited scope (smaller populations than, say, a populous US state or the US as a whole). As I understand it, the premise for UBI is that everyone would be guaranteed a minimum livable income, nothing more. Anything beyond that that you want, you'd need to earn through some other method.

As automation begins to eat away more and more jobs, something like UBI will probably become necessary, IMO.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Where do the police put the homeless during the Rose Festival? Every year the same thing, right before the RF starts and poof! Homeless gone. Trash gone. Homeless camps near downtown gone. Shitty SUVs gone. It's amazing.

Also if you check the Multnomah County Animal Shelter's website, pit bulls everywhere! https://multcopets.org/adoptable/dogs

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

The "admittedly limited" meant that the experiments had limited scope (smaller populations than, say, a populous US state or the US as a whole). As I understand it, the premise for UBI is that everyone would be guaranteed a minimum livable income, nothing more. Anything beyond that that you want, you'd need to earn through some other method.

As automation begins to eat away more and more jobs, something like UBI will probably become necessary, IMO.

There will have to be price fixing at every level. We'd be better off outlawing automation than giving everyone free fake money.

Admittedly limited influences a real economy the same way the Casinos here giving away free cars influences car prices.

If everyone got a free car the automall will close or it'll only be there for upgrades, one way or another it will change how the business runs. It's undeniable logic.

 

[jonnyboy]

Why can't they just designate legal areas, or camps for the homeless? That way they dont have to waste money trying to move them around all the time? You could allow room for the charities, soup kitchens, temp agencies, churches etc. to set up shop close by. Designate a few officers to keep the areas patroled. Alot of homeless help eachother out also, like neighbors. Its not housing but it would keep the homeless safer and be a 'hub' for them to get assistance or resources. I think alot of people would be willing to go to these areas to help people out. People could drop of food and other necessities there instead of trying to seek out individuals, or making them bounce around the city for assitance in different areas. Seems pretty logical. If you build it they will come.

 

[Minstrel]

There will have to be price fixing at every level. We'd be better off outlawing automation than giving everyone free fake money.

It's free real money. But I think you're reversing cause and effect--business is going to change over time regardless, something like UBI allows society to change with it, without making 70% or more of the population homeless.

Outlawing automation and other innovation would be far, far worse. Those things grow the economy, which allows for things like UBI without deleterious effects. Enforcing stagnation would lead to a poorer economy all around (for the rich and the poor) than simply guaranteeing everyone a livable income and allowing innovation to flourish, even if that innovation completely changes how the economy works.

You should read the article I linked, if you haven't already. It's pretty interesting. UBI is also not a conservative/liberal split issue--plenty of conservatives (and libertarians) endorse UBI because they don't want to see government forced to limit technology artificially in order to save jobs.

 

[Nate]

@dviss1 I'm not sure what Casey's point was, whether he was showing disgust for the homeless population around the Moda Center and Portland and sharing his doubt that the problem will get fixed because of the homeless people themselves, or if his ire and disgust are aimed at the problem itself and our local and federal governments Ill aim to fix it.

I too have been homeless and it sucks. While there are a lot of people who would prefer not to be there are also a large number who have accepted the life and want to be homeless. I think building more transitional housing for homeless people with better programs to help them get cleaned up, dental work, find jobs, homes and get back on their feet. I know there already some of these in portland, but they can only house a small fraction of the homeless population and the transitions programs are Ill funded.
A lot of the population is runaway terms and older seniors who are disabled or have hard time finding work because of their age and so find themselves slipping through the cracks with no safety net to catch them.
It's a multifaceted problem that involves getting runaway terms home,( or if their homes aren't safe, somewhere that is) the people that can still work cleaned up and back on their feet with jobs with time to save up so they can eventually get their own place, while getting older folks on retirement, Disability, or put together some other form of funding for those that cantbwork to get them off the street. Then there is also the drug addiction issue. So, programs need to include helping those addicted get clean. It's a complex issue that needs a well out together solution. I know making homelessness illegal and putting people in jail and shooing them away or sending them away on buses to other cities is not the solution.
This issue angers me, I have seen it up close and personal. I have experienced it first hand. I know there is has not been enough done to fix it.

I know multiple people like this...

It's like modern day train traveling hobos. Except they want to set up camp in major cities, while the citizens pay for it.

 

[Nate]

Where do the police put the homeless during the Rose Festival? Every year the same thing, right before the RF starts and poof! Homeless gone. Trash gone. Homeless camps near downtown gone. Shitty SUVs gone. It's amazing.

Also if you check the Multnomah County Animal Shelter's website, pit bulls everywhere! https://multcopets.org/adoptable/dogs

Fake homeless.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

It's free real money. But I think you're reversing cause and effect--business is going to change over time regardless, something like UBI allows society to change with it, without making 70% or more of the population homeless.

Outlawing automation and other innovation would be far, far worse. Those things grow the economy, which allows for things like UBI without deleterious effects. Enforcing stagnation would lead to a poorer economy all around (for the rich and the poor) than simply guaranteeing everyone a livable income and allowing innovation to flourish, even if that innovation completely changes how the economy works.

You should read the article I linked, if you haven't already. It's pretty interesting. UBI is also not a conservative/liberal split issue--plenty of conservatives (and libertarians) endorse UBI because they don't want to see government forced to limit technology artificially in order to save jobs.

They're going to have to limit it to save jobs. I'm not saying some sort of communism isn't going to become reality. I'm saying to keep this country as it is people are going to have to work.

I'm mostly not worried unless people do like my wife likes to do.

I wanted toast one morning and couldn't find the toaster underneath the stove as usual. I asked my wife where it was. "I threw it away because it was dirty"

I asked her where the new one was, "Haven't bought one yet"

THEN DON'T THROW IT AWAY

 

[Chris Craig]

They're going to have to limit it to save jobs. I'm not saying some sort of communism isn't going to become reality. I'm saying to keep this country as it is people are going to have to work.

I'm mostly not worried unless people do like my wife likes to do.

I wanted toast one morning and couldn't find the toaster underneath the stove as usual. I asked my wife where it was. "I threw it away because it was dirty"

I asked her where the new one was, "Haven't bought one yet"

THEN DON'T THROW IT AWAY

Why not just clean it

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Why can't they just designate legal areas, or camps for the homeless? That way they dont have to waste money trying to move them around all the time? You could allow room for the charities, soup kitchens, temp agencies, churches etc. to set up shop close by. Designate a few officers to keep the areas patroled. Alot of homeless help eachother out also, like neighbors. Its not housing but it would keep the homeless safer and be a 'hub' for them to get assistance or resources. I think alot of people would be willing to go to these areas to help people out. People could drop of food and other necessities there instead of trying to seek out individuals, or making them bounce around the city for assitance in different areas. Seems pretty logical. If you build it they will come.

Liability. These areas are suited for people to live on.

No basic services like power and water. That means burning anything they can find and leaving shit and piss everywhere.

If you're talking about moving them from the Right To Dream Too spot that land has been sold and will be developed.

A lot of homeless people commit crimes. There was just a lady on the news who lives by 205, homeless came up to her house and ripped her storm door out of the frame. They turned into into a very nice BBQ grate over a fire. Homeless are on DOT land. DOT can't evict people, PPD can't really do much because DOT doesn't file criminal trespassing complaints.

(No @MarAzul, you can't legally shoot people taking things off of your house, only if they enter.)

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Why not just clean it

Don't get me started! Toasters are cheap but fuck buy a new one first. Cross the bridge when you come to it.

 

[Orion Bailey]

A minimum of 10% has to be charred from a fire of some sort and you will fit right in!!!

 

[Mediocre Man]

How many people can it hold?

Sleeps 9, and a patio. A solid 15 to 20 inside and out

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Sleeps 9, and a patio. A solid 15 to 20 inside and out

PARTY!

Yes, bring it!

 

[Rhal]

Studies in Canada and Denmark show it's actually cheaper to provide housingvfor the homeless than deal with them in the street.

That could very well be the case. To rent an apartment for a homeless person would be what 700 for a studio in Portland, then give them a social worker which is another probably 1000 a month, that seems like a lot but I bet when you add up all the cost of cleanup, calls to police, everything else that I cant' think of that goes into having homeless in a city that it would be cheaper.

 

[dviss1]

Was it Bofongo? Caaca con frites?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Liability. These areas are suited for people to live on.

No basic services like power and water. That means burning anything they can find and leaving shit and piss everywhere.

If you're talking about moving them from the Right To Dream Too spot that land has been sold and will be developed.

A lot of homeless people commit crimes. There was just a lady on the news who lives by 205, homeless came up to her house and ripped her storm door out of the frame. They turned into into a very nice BBQ grate over a fire. Homeless are on DOT land. DOT can't evict people, PPD can't really do much because DOT doesn't file criminal trespassing complaints.

(No @MarAzul, you can't legally shoot people taking things off of your house, only if they enter.)

You can in Texas.

 

[Mediocre Man]

That could very well be the case. To rent an apartment for a homeless person would be what 700 for a studio in Portland, then give them a social worker which is another probably 1000 a month, that seems like a lot but I bet when you add up all the cost of cleanup, calls to police, everything else that I cant' think of that goes into having homeless in a city that it would be cheaper.

Something this country should look at, at least

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Majority of the homeless I see are just lazy drug addict bastards making Portland look more & more like a shit hole every day. It's a choice for them. It's not that hard to get a basic job so you can at least afford a small apartment (and even easier if you get roommates).

 

[MAS RipCity]

Majority of the homeless I see are just lazy drug addict bastards making Portland look more & more like a shit hole every day. It's a choice for them. It's not that hard to get a basic job so you can at least afford a small apartment (and even easier if you get roommates).

I've read a lot of shitty takes on this website, but this might take the cake as the worst. My only hope is that you meant to put the above in green font but forgot.

I walk by tons of homeless each and every day to and from work and I couldn't disagree more with what you've stated. Unless you take the time to stop and talk to these people and get their story, there's absolutely no way you can or should make this type of assessment.

 

[Minstrel]

A lot of people feel better if, in their mind, anyone (or most people) in shitty circumstances deserved them. It's uncomfortable to think that some people are dealt terrible hands, sometimes unrecoverable ones, through no fault of their own.

 

[MickZagger]

Majority of the homeless I see are just lazy drug addict bastards making Portland look more & more like a shit hole every day. It's a choice for them. It's not that hard to get a basic job so you can at least afford a small apartment (and even easier if you get roommates).

A lot of those people you think are drug addicts are actually mentally ill.

If you're a leach and just want handouts to pay for your drug addiction, I agree with you. I'd say mental illness makes up a larger part of the street folks. Its a real problem.

 

[TBpup]

Mental illness is a big problem. Why such a rise in it over the years? Mental illness way up. Obesity/diabetes way up. Treating either of these doesn't actually solve anything. What is the problem causing them?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Mental illness is a big problem. Why such a rise in it over the years? Mental illness way up. Obesity/diabetes way up. Treating either of these doesn't actually solve anything. What is the problem causing them?

Ive often wondered. and I have no clue or data to support anything, just pure assumptions, but.
Could it be the market causes medical research to be driven primarily by those who have the funds to support the research?
Example:
Billionaire old fart cant get it up and thus pays millions and millions for erectile dysfunction research, rather than studies going towards truly life altering/killing illnesses?

It's all about the dollar right? If you don't have the funds to support the research to find a cure for your illness then you are pretty much fucked unless it becomes an epidemic, right?

That's why certain organ transplants costs tens of thousands of dollars and have long waiting lists?

The same holds true for mental illness. Most families don't have the funds to invest in research to cure their family member ailing of a mental issue.
Then you have instant media and world events constantly bombarding you day to day . Life is more complicated today and some people cant handle that.

 

[TBpup]

I think part of it (speaking about obesity/diabetes) is personal responsibility and discipline. I'm sure I'll take a lot of flak but anecdotally and from Doctors who are clients, so many people just don't make (or want to make) good decisions for their long term health. Instead of lean meat, vegetables etc, it is processed food and what is easy and they feel tastes good versus what is actually good for them.

Food is fuel for the body yet so many people treat it as an entertainment. No one would put such crap in their car's gas tank but will pour absolute trash into their own tank.

 

[MARIS61]

I think Michael Bloomberg should give a dollar to every American.

 

[Bob Dobalina]

I've read a lot of shitty takes on this website, but this might take the cake as the worst. My only hope is that you meant to put the above in green font but forgot.

I walk by tons of homeless each and every day to and from work and I couldn't disagree more with what you've stated. Unless you take the time to stop and talk to these people and get their story, there's absolutely no way you can or should make this type of assessment.

So enlighten us then. What have you found in your "walk by" research to suggest BoBo's take is so outrageous?

Been several posts on here about folks being homeless themselves at one time, I talk to them all the time, you have no idea, etc with no info to back it up.

Those who have been homeless. How'd you get there? How'd you get out? Honestly.

 

[TBpup]

Homeless is different in each country. My mom has done a lot of volunteer/missionary work over seas where their version of homeless/poor would make many of those in this country look rich by comparison. That is not to take away or belittle those who have a seriously bad situation of which they can't do nothing about that they didn't have something to do with in the first place due to decisions they made that brought certain consequences about. It's just quite a difference from the stories mom and her group has shared from their experiences. Serious destitution.