Politics CHARLIE KIRK SHOT IN UTAH

[Phatguysrule]

Again, bullshit. I never said that. You are twisting my words. Quote me saying scientists and academia have agendas and cant be trusted.
Lets see how you truncate my statement to fit your narrative (sounds familiar)…

i said some can, just like all professionals in all aspects. But i said im sure the vast majority are on the up and up. You aRe generalizing and truncating my statement instead of taking it word for word.
Thats bullshit

This statement is a good example of how little you understand about science or the scientific method.

Once again, it is very difficult to have an open and honest dialogue like this.

 

[sheed30]

Thank you for indicating exactly how science doesn't work.

That’s your reply? Lol funny.

again it’s what and where you get your information and whatever decision you want to form, that’s your choice.

but don’t come out and make those statements like it’s 100% facts when you don’t know any better than anyone else here.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Im done. You guys are clearly twisting my words claiming i said things i never said or said way differently.
all too familiar….

Thank you for the open and honest dialogue.

 

[Phatguysrule]

That’s your reply? Lol funny.

again it’s what and where you get your information and whatever decision you want to form, that’s your choice.

but don’t come out and make those statements like it’s 100% facts when you don’t know any better than anyone else here.

Please feel free to list any legitimate epidemiologists who disagreed with any of the things that I claimed.

Once you do I'll show you how they were likely paid by a political or corporate entity to do so.

 

[HailBlazers]

"More political and full of hate in recent years."

Sounds familiar.

 

[sheed30]

Please feel free to list any legitimate epidemiologists who disagreed with any of the things that I claimed.

Once you do I'll show you how they were likely paid by a political or corporate entity to do so.

lol, so now you want to claim anyone that had a different view from what you said and read in the past was paid for by a political corporate entity?

Funny man, this goes back to every way you come across on here from this topic to basketball, if anyone doesn’t agree with you they are wrong and your right and you think your smarter than others here.

showed in the past and shows in the way you’re replying now.

like I said you are free to form your own decision, we all have that right, but don’t claim something is 100% facts when you are not a scientist yourself.

 

[Chris Craig]

bullshit Chris. I never said science cant be trusted. Why are you putting words in my mouth???

You basically did by saying scientists have agendas. You did then say not all of them do, that most are on the up and up. That insinuates that science cannot be trusted.

The scientific method does not allow for agenda or opinion. Findings must be based in immutable fact.

Though scientists are people and maybe have certain political leanings and such outside of the field, those leanings have no place within the scope of their work. I love that about science. It's the one thing that sits outside all the bs.

Too I take offense at the comment that teachers have agendas. The job of the teacher, is to teach kids how to think for themselves, not what or how the teacher thinks. That has been my experience as both a student and teacher. I don't care for all these claims teachers are indoctrinating students. That's just fear mongering.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Thank you for the open and honest dialogue.

takes two and you didn't meet me half way. You made it personal. You twisted my words. You claimed i said things i did not say. That is not open and honest dialogue.
So ill move on to those who can exert that type of behavior. Not cater to deflection and twisting of comments snd personal attacks, which is what you did from the outset.
Your effort to try to understand others is not there its you are right and if one disagrees with you they are harmful. This is not open and honest dialogue.

I gave it and didn't get it in return, so I'm moving on.
But you are welcome for the thanks you provided.
Unfortunately i cant thank you in return because you did not provide that same type of conversation.
I do find it interesting, those claiming one side cant have open honest dialogue, exhibits that same behavior themselves.

We are doomed…..

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

You basically did by saying scientists have agendas. You did then say not all of them do, that most are on the up and up. That insinuates that science cannot be trusted.

The scientific method does not allow for agenda or opinion. Findings must be based in immutable fact.

Though scientists are people and maybe have certain political leanings and such outside of the field, those leanings have no place within the scope of their work. I love that about science. It's the one thing that sits outside all the bs.

Too I take offense at the comment that teachers have agendas. The job of the teacher, is to teach kids how to think for themselves, not what or how the teacher thinks. That has been my experience as both a student and teacher. I don't care for all these claims teachers are indoctrinating students. That's just fear mongering.

What would you call what Kirk was doing? Not that he was a teacher.

Again, bullshit. I said some scientists CAN have agendas.
So basically, you are twisting my words. Thats bullshit….

devil is on the details and you glossed right over them, like so many people do….

 

[sheed30]

Im done. You guys are clearly twisting my words claiming i said things i never said or said way differently.
all too familiar….

Typical, and it just goes to show the true color of some of these posters.

 

[Phatguysrule]

lol, so now you want to claim anyone that had a different view from what you said and read in the past was paid for by a political corporate entity?

Funny man, this goes back to every way you come across on here from this topic to basketball, if anyone doesn’t agree with you they are wrong and your right and you think your smarter than others here.

showed in the past and shows in the way you’re replying now.

like I said you are free to form your own decision, we all have that right, but don’t claim something is 100% facts when you are not a scientist yourself.

So you can't do it. That's fine.

 

[riverman]

Purely a hate crime by an immature young man who has never voted..just a reaction to the Charlie Kirk msg that caused him to snap. This will undoubtedly stifle some hard right wing hate speech mongers from taking it public. It also reflects the horrible possibilities that can happen when your govt doesn't hold it's most corrupt and divisive talking heads accountable. Trump and Bannon and Alex Jones are still out there slinging partisan hatred to the weak willed. Trump and now Kirk have been shot over it less than a year into the MAGA presidency. Guns aren't protecting us...sorry. It's not working.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

How many of us common folk are engaged in dialogue with scientists and professors?
im referring to us common folk on day to day socializing. What we are witnessing, as common folk express themselves.
Also. Scientific studies can be manipulated to fit narratives as well, simply by ommiting certain facts/knowledge. And let’s not pretend educators and scientists don't also have beliefs and agendas just like politicians.

But thats all murky. I stand by what i said which i believe is clear. Both sides. All sides must engage in open and honest dialogue for us to come back together as a society and humanity. The right must listen to the left and the left must listen to the right. Without this, we are doomed.

You basically did by saying scientists have agendas. You did then say not all of them do, that most are on the up and up. That insinuates that science cannot be trusted.

The scientific method does not allow for agenda or opinion. Findings must be based in immutable fact.

Though scientists are people and maybe have certain political leanings and such outside of the field, those leanings have no place within the scope of their work. I love that about science. It's the one thing that sits outside all the bs.

Too I take offense at the comment that teachers have agendas. The job of the teacher, is to teach kids how to think for themselves, not what or how the teacher thinks. That has been my experience as both a student and teacher. I don't care for all these claims teachers are indoctrinating students. That's just fear mongering.

that is NOT what i said….

 

[Hoopguru]

My guess is they would categorize the antifa/protesters as the "loony left", but they were a small very disorganized group that didn't infiltrate the democratic party the way the tea party did in the past and now MAGA has taken over the GOP (or at least, took that side of the party out of hiding).

Looney left - blows up army recruiting station
Looney right - blows up abortion clinics

Crazies on both ends

I still have Loonies frommy travels in Canada

 

[Phatguysrule]

takes two and you didn't meet me half way. You made it personal. You twisted my words. You claimed i said things i did not say. That is not open and honest dialogue.
So ill move on to those who can exert that type of behavior. Not cater to deflection and twisting of comments snd personal attacks, which is what you did from the outset.
Your effort to try to understand others is not there its you are right and if one disagrees with you they are harmful. This is not open and honest dialogue.

I gave it and didn't get it in return, so I'm moving on.
But you are welcome for the thanks you provided.
Unfortunately i cant thank you in return because you did not provide that same type of conversation.
I do find it interesting, those claiming one side cant have open honest dialogue, exhibits that same behavior themselves.

We are doomed…..

My claim was that you can't have open and honest dialogue with someone who doesn't respect and trust academia and science.

You proceeded to argue with me about how untrustworthy academia and science are.

I'm not sure what else you wanted.

 

[sheed30]

So you can't do it. That's fine.

You always like to say a lot but when you reply like this, just goes to show you “check mate”

you only want to push your thoughts and views and claim this and that, basketball related and this topic related, you always have a big problem when someone doesn’t see things the same way as you.

It’s ok man, people can have different views and form their own judgement, sorry that bothers you so much.

 

[Phatguysrule]

You always like to say a lot but when you reply like this, just goes to show you “check mate”

you only want to push your thoughts and views and claim this and that, basketball related and this topic related, you always have a big problem when someone doesn’t see things the same way as you.

It’s ok man, people can have different views and form their own judgement, sorry that bothers you so much.

I asked you to participate in the conversation by supporting your claim. You refuse to do so.

It's not checkmate, I'm just not sure where else to go with it.

 

[Strenuus]

lol, so now you want to claim anyone that had a different view from what you said and read in the past was paid for by a political corporate entity?

Funny man, this goes back to every way you come across on here from this topic to basketball, if anyone doesn’t agree with you they are wrong and your right and you think your smarter than others here.

showed in the past and shows in the way you’re replying now.

like I said you are free to form your own decision, we all have that right, but don’t claim something is 100% facts when you are not a scientist yourself.

To his point, and kind of the same point as yours... follow the money. Thats all he was saying, which is the truth. Absolutely scientists said it didn't work, but who are they bought by? Working for?

Same if they said that all of it did work for covid? Were they paid by Pfizer? Etc.

In a roundabout way y'all are talking about the same thing (at least big picture, I didnt read fully in the semantical part, so I apologize if this has been uttered).

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

My claim was that you can't have open and honest dialogue with someone who doesn't respect and trust academia and science.

You proceeded to argue with me about how untrustworthy academia and science are.

I'm not sure what else you wanted.

That is your incorrect perception based on your biased views of me.
I wanted nothing. I stated a belief. You took it to a personal level and claim to be providing open and honest dialogue. You broke that down from the beginning.
I never said science cant be trusted or science had agendas. I said some scientists CAN have agendas.
You take that however you want but it wont be open and honest dialogue…

 

[RR7]

Scientific studies can be manipulated to fit narratives as well, simply by ommiting certain facts/knowledge. And let’s not pretend educators and scientists don't also have beliefs and agendas just like politicians.
.

Ditto. What you are advocating, that there is not any possibility of foul play in science, is very harmful to this country. Id suggest you check yourself and give light to the fact that scientists are also human and have agendas. Covid proved this. Not all scientists agreed on covid. I rest my case.

You stated twice that scientists have agendas. Why are you arguing you did not? That doesn't seem in good faith.

 

[riverman]

In my opinion scientific method cannot function within the constraints of fundementalist religious belief...that's where science is divided. Demonstrable science require proof of a supreme being and heaven or hell. An actual scientist cannot accept these beliefs blindly without proof. We have many diverse ideologies masking as "science" driven that are actually dogmatically driven. Some may define a UFO as an angel and some as an alien interstellar being.

 

[Chris Craig]

Again, bullshit. I said some scientists CAN have agendas.
So basically, you are twisting my words. Thats bullshit….

devil is on the details and you glossed right over them, like so many people do….

So science can be trusted?

 

[Strenuus]

You basically did by saying scientists have agendas. You did then say not all of them do, that most are on the up and up. That insinuates that science cannot be trusted.

The scientific method does not allow for agenda or opinion. Findings must be based in immutable fact.

Though scientists are people and maybe have certain political leanings and such outside of the field, those leanings have no place within the scope of their work. I love that about science. It's the one thing that sits outside all the bs.

Too I take offense at the comment that teachers have agendas. The job of the teacher, is to teach kids how to think for themselves, not what or how the teacher thinks. That has been my experience as both a student and teacher. I don't care for all these claims teachers are indoctrinating students. That's just fear mongering.

Ill push back slightly. I fully believe in the scientific method. It does not mean all scientists bind to it. in favor of disingenuous results. Both of those statements, unfortunately in our political and capitalistic climate, can be true.

That being said, that shit needs to be cleaned up because science is the only way we have even gotten as far as we have. And right now its very diluted.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

There are two extremely sad things i'm seeing from this event.

#1 - dude is a father. If he doesn't make it his child has one less parent in the world.

#2 - these people are already blaming the left and calling them disgusting before any details about the perpetrator comes out.

Any sane reasonable person waits to review the facts before going into full blown rage.

I'm just gonna go ahead and bump this. We don't have the full facts or know if the persons total motives, but looking more and more true that any sane reasonable person needs to wait to review the facts before full blown rage.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

You basically did by saying scientists have agendas. You did then say not all of them do, that most are on the up and up. That insinuates that science cannot be trusted.

The scientific method does not allow for agenda or opinion. Findings must be based in immutable fact.

Though scientists are people and maybe have certain political leanings and such outside of the field, those leanings have no place within the scope of their work. I love that about science. It's the one thing that sits outside all the bs.

Too I take offense at the comment that teachers have agendas. The job of the teacher, is to teach kids how to think for themselves, not what or how the teacher thinks. That has been my experience as both a student and teacher. I don't care for all these claims teachers are indoctrinating students. That's just fear mongering.

Then you can take offense to teachers teaching religious curriculum. If you don't think some teachers have agendas, then you are just as naive as those who think Trump can do no wrong…

But also taking offense at all? Why? Why take offense?I didn't attack you personally. Get the emotions out of it.
Thats a big part of society problems. Reaction with emotion instead of rational thoughts.
If you told me some project managers in construction can be selfish pricks out for nothing but money, i wouldn't take offense, id agree because its true.

 

[Phatguysrule]

That is your incorrect perception based on your biased views of me.
I wanted nothing. I stated a belief. You took it to a personal level and claim to be providing open and honest dialogue. You broke that down from the beginning.
I never said science cant be trusted or science had agendas. I said some scientists CAN have agendas.
You take that however you want but it wont be open and honest dialogue…

I'm sorry if you feel I've personally attacked you in some way. That was not my intention.

 

[Strenuus]

You basically did by saying scientists have agendas. You did then say not all of them do, that most are on the up and up. That insinuates that science cannot be trusted.

The scientific method does not allow for agenda or opinion. Findings must be based in immutable fact.

Though scientists are people and maybe have certain political leanings and such outside of the field, those leanings have no place within the scope of their work. I love that about science. It's the one thing that sits outside all the bs.

Too I take offense at the comment that teachers have agendas. The job of the teacher, is to teach kids how to think for themselves, not what or how the teacher thinks. That has been my experience as both a student and teacher. I don't care for all these claims teachers are indoctrinating students. That's just fear mongering.

Sorry to double reply to you, Chris. BUT FUCKING PREACH ABOUT THE STUDENTS AND TEACHERS. That indoctrinating bullshit stuff is fucking stupid. The fuck you calling Oklahoma with required Bible stuff? Yeah, THATS indoctrinating. Because they forced that. Youre not forcing math, science, English, writing... thats the core subjects.


Shit drives me nuts.

 

[Chris Craig]

Ill push back slightly. I fully believe in the scientific method. It does not mean all scientists bind to it. in favor of disingenuous results. Both of those statements, unfortunately in our political and capitalistic climate, can be true.

That being said, that shit needs to be cleaned up because science is the only way we have even gotten as far as we have. And right now its very diluted.

True.

 

[Chris Craig]

I'm sorry if you feel I've personally attacked you in some way. That was not my intention.

Mine either

Just trying to have open dialogue.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

You stated twice that scientists have agendas. Why are you arguing you did not? That doesn't seem in good faith.

See that word CAN in there? It is being spun i said science cant be trusted. Bullshit. I never said teachers cant be trusted and yet some teacher have agendas.

Are you actually gonna claim all scientists are 100% on the up and up and not one might have a personal agenda based on ideologies?

You and others are omitting certain words to make my statement seem different than it is.
That is a literacy issue or an agenda of its own accord. I dont know…