Politics CHARLIE KIRK SHOT IN UTAH

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Strenuus said:
Theres definitely some very easy conspiracy theories... not saying Trump did anything to make it happen... but the timing is oddly convenient.

I just hope his family is okay. That is the worst. He brought it all on himself, but now they are having to feel all the loss for it.
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The whole he brought it on himself thing is interesting. Not arguing against that. But a big part of the reaction from the right to this online has been astonishment that someone as boring as Charlie Kirk would be assassinated. I find myself in that camp, honestly. Kirk was part of that YouTube, watch an SJW get owned compilation algorithm. Ben Shapiro owns a liberal with facts and logic bullshit content your coworker watches. Not a radical figure at all.

Just as an aside...I've noticed that in the typical tributes to him from guys like J.D Vance, they talk about his "unlimited potential" but in all reality, he was declining in influence. He bridged the gap in the digital age for establishment Republicans before the Adin Ross meme streaming era took over. He was on a tour that was a relic of 2017 MAGA "culture" where he sits down and takes questions and has a fake debate. South Park did a lot to boost his waning visibility.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Who would benefit the most from this assassination?
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Well, it's pretty obvious who's making the most blatant political use of it. If I were conspiracy-minded I might suggest that Kirk was sacrificed for the cause. And the longer the shooter goes un-caught the more suspicious I'd be.

Because, let's be honest - if you're a left-wing assassin how far down your list would a guy who's just basically a Rush Limbaugh wannabe be? And after you shoot him, security on actual worthwhile targets will go way up.
 
jonnyboy said:
Um do you happen to read the things some people on the left are writing right now? Start with this forum lol. There isn’t any one side who can claim the high road. Right wing fanatics are claiming extremist wokeism and declaring war on…nobody because there isn’t even a fucking shooter or motive. And Leftist fanatics are jerking off to a gore video of a man being violently murdered in front of his wife and children.
We are cooked as a country. People’s brains are just gone.
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I've not seen anybody celebrating or joking about Kirk being assassinated.

Everyone in here has been pretty typical about it, saying it needs to change. Wishing we'd do something that would actually help prevent these things from happening. Even if we disagree on how to do that.

But saying somebody who made a career of attacking innocent people and publicly supporting (for profit and fame and using lies and misinformation) laws, politicians and military actions which resulted in far more suffering and death was courting violence to himself is a fact.

He was egging these people on and helping destroy institutions and systems which could possibly have helped prevent his death (depending on who committed the act).
 
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Rastapopoulos said:
Well, it's pretty obvious who's making the most blatant political use of it. If I were conspiracy-minded I might suggest that Kirk was sacrificed for the cause. And the longer the shooter goes un-caught the more suspicious I'd be.

Because, let's be honest - if you're a left-wing assassin how far down your list would a guy who's just basically a Rush Limbaugh wannabe be? And after you shoot him, security on actual worthwhile targets will go way up.
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This is a solid point. And it's been in the back of my mind... could be...
 
Witness questions security


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Trump's oval office address definitely looked like it at least had some AI editing done.
 
No question people with different viewpoints shouldn't kill each other. Rarely we can find common ground, four Republicans called for releasing Epstein files, which is good, but all the rest of the Congressional Republicans sided with abusers against raped girls.

I don't know how many people share Charlie Kirk's kill the gays opinion. But too many are ready to deny at least some in my community civil rights. Where is my common ground? I am either equal human being or not.

Incidentally, Kirk loudly opposed compassion and empathy, said they are symptoms of what's wrong.
 
Kash Patel couldn't find his ass with both hands so they're already soft launching a straight out of central casting trans lunatic as the suspect.

 
bulls_with_booz said:
The whole he brought it on himself thing is interesting. Not arguing against that. But a big part of the reaction from the right to this online has been astonishment that someone as boring as Charlie Kirk would be assassinated. I find myself in that camp, honestly. Kirk was part of that YouTube, watch an SJW get owned compilation algorithm. Ben Shapiro owns a liberal with facts and logic bullshit content your coworker watches. Not a radical figure at all.

Just as an aside...I've noticed that in the typical tributes to him from guys like J.D Vance, they talk about his "unlimited potential" but in all reality, he was declining in influence. He bridged the gap in the digital age for establishment Republicans before the Adin Ross meme streaming era took over. He was on a tour that was a relic of 2017 MAGA "culture" where he sits down and takes questions and has a fake debate. South Park did a lot to boost his waning visibility.
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You're (meaning Kirk) publicly spreading lies in support of politicians and policies that hurt millions of people. You're making yourself a target.

What you say matters.

It is an absolute travesty that we're in a situation in which we had the CDC shot up (and the president didn't really seem to care), Democratic politicians and their family members literally attacked and murdered by a radical right insane person, and the president didn't seem to care, and a right-wing influencer murdered (to which the president gives a national order for flags at half staff and casts blame on his political opposition before we even know who pulled the trigger).
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Well, it's pretty obvious who's making the most blatant political use of it. If I were conspiracy-minded I might suggest that Kirk was sacrificed for the cause. And the longer the shooter goes un-caught the more suspicious I'd be.

Because, let's be honest - if you're a left-wing assassin how far down your list would a guy who's just basically a Rush Limbaugh wannabe be? And after you shoot him, security on actual worthwhile targets will go way up.
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Ding ding ding.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Why though? He was one of their biggest supporters...
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He was actually starting to turn, because his audience certainly had. And he very clearly linked Israel to Epstein. If they had fully lost him, there would be no one in conservative media to simp for the Israeli regime. Yeah, mainstream network news would still be with them but what they're most afraid of is losing the youth since the boomers are going to die out. They need a population who believes in the fables of Israel and they are scared as hell that they don't have it. Check out the timing of Bibi's X posts and he's laundering Kirk's death with his own message. People are figuring it out.
 
Phatguysrule said:
You're publicly spreading lies in support of politicians and policies that hurt millions of people. You're making yourself a target.

What you say matters.
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Yeah that's the part I'm not going to even engage with. To me, he was just another Republican that did the hard pivot to harsh rhetoric to "fit in" with that crowd. But as a public persona, you can't expect everyone to interept the red meat thrown to the MAGA fanatics as part of the show. You can find a bunch of quotes that make Kirk look like George Lincoln Rockwell, but he was not interpreted as such by the right wing. The Fuentes crowd, the white nationalists, they all thought Kirk was a joke and the poster boy cuckservative.

And as to the jumping to conclusions on the shooter, I agree with you that what MAGA inc is doing right now is immoral and absurd. We know nothing concrete yet. They are scrambling to find the suspect/a suitable patsy.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Clearly this moron doesn't know history. Or anything about that fire.
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I would bet most people who use it in the manner he did, only know what they've heard, and what they heard was wrong and from someone who thinks the earth is flat and the moon landing was faked.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
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It's kinda weird how absolutely wrong they are about the "loony left".

The KKK, Nationalism, Neo-Nazis, Proud Boys (etc) are the ones that are violent, and cos play as fascists.

The extreme left buys prius, rides bikes everywhere, abhors guns and violence, is big on climate change, and not wearing deodorant or eating meat.

Now which side would you guess is more prone to violence?
 
julius said:
I would bet most people who use it in the manner he did, only know what they've heard, and what they heard was wrong and from someone who thinks the earth is flat and the moon landing was faked.
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Kinda hilarious that non-MAGA are saying this is like Reichstag because they're gonna use it to round up people they don't like..... and then this moron comes out and SAYS EXACTLY THAT.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Kinda hilarious that non-MAGA are saying this is like Reichstag because they're gonna use it to round up people they don't like..... and then this moron comes out and SAYS EXACTLY THAT.
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And they're either oblivious to it, OR willingly going there.
 
bulls_with_booz said:
Yeah that's the part I'm not going to even engage with. To me, he was just another Republican that did the hard pivot to harsh rhetoric to "fit in" with that crowd. But as a public persona, you can't expect everyone to interept the red meat thrown to the MAGA fanatics as part of the show. You can find a bunch of quotes that make Kirk look like George Lincoln Rockwell, but he was not interpreted as such by the right wing. The Fuentes crowd, the white nationalists, they all thought Kirk was a joke and the poster boy cuckservative.

And as to the jumping to conclusions on the shooter, I agree with you that what MAGA inc is doing right now is immoral and absurd. We know nothing concrete yet. They are scrambling to find the suspect/a suitable patsy.
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It doesn't matter if most people take the speakers lies as not dangerous. Because a not insignificant portion believes the lies. A huge portion votes based on those lies. So those lies actively impact people's lives. Those lies helped elect Trump. Which has been an absolute catastrophe for millions to billions of people.

What you say matters. If your platform helps to spread lies and disinformation (perhaps by editing out parts of debates that prove your lies are wrong, or how tenuous critical parts of your position maybe) then you are actively harming this country.

If they were just debates and they stood on their own merits it wouldn't be nearly as bad. But they were more than that. They were edited and amplified on social media. The intended effect of which is to trigger an emotional response.

And you may not think that it was very important but young people paid a lot of attention to him. I don't think Trump wins without Charlie Kirk in his corner.

From my perspective, with high school and college students all around me, a huge part of the youth shift toward Trump was thanks almost entirely to Charlie Kirk and the propaganda he spread.
 
julius said:
It's kinda weird how absolutely wrong they are about the "loony left".

The KKK, Nationalism, Neo-Nazis, Proud Boys (etc) are the ones that are violent, and cos play as fascists.

The extreme left buys prius, rides bikes everywhere, abhors guns and violence, is big on climate change, and not wearing deodorant or eating meat.

Now which side would you guess is more prone to violence?
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Remember all the jokes about how, if there was a new Civil War, The Right would win in a landslide because they have all the guns? Suddenly the Left seems to have acquired them, I guess.
 
Erdogan faked a coup so that he could round up all his opponents. I have long said that Trump will do the same thing.
 
Phatguysrule said:
It doesn't matter if most people take the speakers lies as not dangerous. Because a not insignificant portion believes the lies. A huge portion votes based on those lies. So those lies actively impact people's lives. Those lies helped elect Trump. Which has been an absolute catastrophe for millions to billions of people.

What you say matters. If your platform helps to spread lies and disinformation (perhaps by editing out parts of debates that prove your lies are wrong, or how tenuous critical parts of your position maybe) then you are actively harming this country.

If they were just debates and they stood on their own merits it wouldn't be nearly as bad. But they were more than that. And you may not think that it was very important but young people paid a lot of attention to him. I don't think Trump wins without Charlie Kirk in his corner. A huge part of the youth shift toward Trump was thanks almost entirely to Charlie Kirk and the propaganda he spread.
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Might edit this and respond to more, but Kushner paid tribute to Kirk by saying that he basically replaced the preexisting conference/organizer roles within the Republican Party in 2016, and took a lot of heat because of it. My only argument really about his rhetoric is that it was very typical mainstream MAGA stuff. People are sort of in a roundabout way saying that if you're a public Trump guy your family shouldn't be all that surprised to see you gunned down. It's not great messaging going into 2028 in my opinion. But truth be told, I don't know what is anymore.
 
Whenever a controversial political figure dies I am reminded of this sketch from "Not the Nine O'Clock News," a sketch show from the late 70s/early 80s (yes, that is Mr. Bean - this is how he became famous)

 
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