Child Welfare called in on Father who gave Son a Gun

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jlprk said:
That's quite an argument against freedom.



And that's a quickie in favor of a police state.

...If it's legal for a kid to own a gun, then why does CPS investigate legal activity?
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How is that an argument against freedom? If it is, then we have no freedom, and we never had. As far back as Adam and Eve, we have the freedom to choose. But then, we must all answer for our choices. Or the Freedom of Speech, Amendment numero uno. We all have the Freedom of Speech, but we must be prepared to pay the consequences (say, yelling "fire" in a full theatre, when in fact, there is no fire).
 
oldguy said:
That may be true of kids raised in the city. I grew up in the country. I had a gun (.22) when I was 12. I was thoroughly checked out on gun safety before I was ever allowed to shoot it. I was also thoroughly checked out on the issue that you don't get to make a mistake with a gun. Most of the kids I knew had a gun by the time they were allowed to hunt big game, about 14 years old.

Go Blazers
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It's true. I was generic, and I have cousins that live in the country that learned to shoot guns at a younger age. In general, in areas of greater populace where guns are not used in daily life (i.e. with my cousins, they routinely used guns for hunting or to scare coyotes from livestock), I'd say most children are not educated on gun safety. And I'm going to assume you're from a different generation than me.

Most people who are properly educated on gun safety and are not completely clueless would not post pics of their child holding a gun that looks similar to a semi-automatic on FB, and then be totally shocked when child services comes to the door. You guys are missing the point. I don't fear guns. I don't care if the kid learns to shoot a gun properly. I don't care that the dad is a bad-ass for posting the picture.

What I don't understand is why the dad is upset that, after HE posted pictures on FB, HIS "friend" called child services/police, and yet he is upset at child service for doing their job and performing a welfare check (which everything sounds like it was by the book and everything was fine).
 
donkiez said:
This is one area I totally agree with you Maris. A cops job is to ENFORCE THE LAW, lieing and intimidating people into giving up information is a tool they use. I have met some very nice officers over the years but I have never made the mistake of believing any of them are ever on MY side.

Little offnote highschool story to emphasis this point. In HS a couple of buddies who were both 18 were at a party. One was drunk the other not. After the party the sober guy gave the drunk guy a ride home, thinking he was doing the responsible thing, and got pulled over. The cop smelled alcohol asked if anyone was drinking, the driver said his passenger was drunk and that he was giving him a ride home. The cop gets all buddy buddy, shooting the shit etc, asks the driver if he had anything to drink all night. Driver responds one or two a long time ago. BOOOM! DUI for driver and MIP for passenger, even though the driver blew and registered about as much alcohol as he would have if he had swallowed some mouth wash. His admission of drinking anything was enough for the DUI as under 21 there is zero tolerance. Point being a cop will do anything to get the info out of you and then they will enforce the law and leave any interpretations to the judge.

In relation to this thread, the Dad is an idiot and so is whoever turned him in. CPS has to investigate everything and some people use that to their advantage. Dad did nothing wrong, except blame the system and cry about 2nd ammendment rights. Seems like everyone is being oversensative these days. Im careful about what I post on facebook, not because I do anything illegal, but because I know that everything on there is for the world to see and Im carefull how I portray myself to the world.
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This.

As for your example of the cops.... I see no lying or intimidation there. I see a cop using common sense and was friendly enough that the kid felt comfortable communicating with him.
 
donkiez said:
Do you ever google stuff before you call BS? This took me like 5 seconds to find.


How much do you have to drink (BAC*) for a DUI in Oregon?
Under 21
.00% (zero tolerance)

21 or older
.08%

Commercial
.04%


http://dui.drivinglaws.org/oregon.php

I can name the two individuals, it is not an urban legend.
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Yeah, donkiez is right on this one, ToB. I've witnessed similar situations in HS, but I just assumed it was common sence (hence, the age-21 drinking law).
 
Over and over in this thread, the CPS employees and their relatives whine, "If the CPS doesn't act like Nazis, one or two Nazis will get on a message board somewhere and CRITICIZE them! You who are calling for freedom--you'll be the first!"

No we won't. We'll be the first to oppose the Nazis who criticize the CPS Nazis for not being Nazi enough.
 
Maybe if you bring a false complaint against someone to CPS you should pay some sort of penalty.
 
Denny Crane said:
Maybe if you bring a false complaint against someone to CPS you should pay some sort of penalty.
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If you maliciously do it, I'd agree with you. The problem is, some people might make a complaint, and it could look to them like something is wrong, and it can turn out fine. Should they be penalized? I think a rule like that might dissuade someone from calling on something that MIGHT look sketchy, but they're not 100% sure. And then more issues can slip through the cracks.
 
RR7 said:
If you maliciously do it, I'd agree with you. The problem is, some people might make a complaint, and it could look to them like something is wrong, and it can turn out fine. Should they be penalized? I think a rule like that might dissuade someone from calling on something that MIGHT look sketchy, but they're not 100% sure. And then more issues can slip through the cracks.
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The intrusion into the family's routine is unwarranted. The people should be able to sue someone.

Common, a picture of a kid with a gun on Facebook? Really?

It's not like a doctor seeing a kid with bruises and x-rays with lots of broken bones previous.
 
My now-tubby ex-wife patrols dating sites. Last night she told me that her new interest is an old guy who is a volunteer for the police, calling in cars who park in handicap spots. He does this for free.

Years ago when I had long hair, my little boy and I got into our car in a grocery store. I noticed a policeman giving us a dirty look. Next day, a younger cop knocks at my door. Seems an anonymous citizen thought that I looked like someone who was wanted. The young cop compared me to a picture and left.

My point is that "anonymous citizen complaints" are neither anonymous nor random. Besides actual police being the informants, the police organize groups of informants.
 
Denny Crane said:
The intrusion into the family's routine is unwarranted. The people should be able to sue someone.

Common, a picture of a kid with a gun on Facebook? Really?

It's not like a doctor seeing a kid with bruises and x-rays with lots of broken bones previous.
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They should be able to sue someone? For what? Gimme a break. It's funny how often we have complaints on here about it being an overly litigious society, yet people still call for someone to be sued over something like this.
 
RR7 said:
They should be able to sue someone? For what? Gimme a break. It's funny how often we have complaints on here about it being an overly litigious society, yet people still call for someone to be sued over something like this.
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Those complaints are from conservatives who love the police state and CPS. Again, as with the "anonymous citizen informant" issue, your side is using the fear of conservative critics who want the CPS to be more police statish, to justify the CPS already being police statish.

If the government is run so democratically on the basis of complaints, why aren't drugs legal? Why are conservative complaints jumped on while liberal complaints are ignored?
 
RR7 said:
They should be able to sue someone? For what? Gimme a break. It's funny how often we have complaints on here about it being an overly litigious society, yet people still call for someone to be sued over something like this.
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I'm all in favor of litigation. Civil courts are there to resolve disputes.

How are you going to prevent these agencies from being used for malicious purposes (like this one!)?
 
I guess just disband the agency, instead. And hope out of the kindness of their hearts, people stop abusing children.
 
Denny Crane said:
I'm all in favor of litigation. Civil courts are there to resolve disputes.

How are you going to prevent these agencies from being used for malicious purposes (like this one!)?
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How was this one malicious? Someone thought the kid was endangered or in an unsafe environment. Turns out they were wrong. Doesn't mean it was malicious.
 
porkchopexpress said:
How was this one malicious? Someone thought the kid was endangered or in an unsafe environment. Turns out they were wrong. Doesn't mean it was malicious.
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A photo on a Facebook page?
 
r-JOSH-MOORE-large570.jpg


Why, exactly, would someone call and complain about the family owning guns?

And why, exactly, should they be investigated?
 
Denny Crane said:
r-JOSH-MOORE-large570.jpg


Why, exactly, would someone call and complain about the family owning guns?

And why, exactly, should they be investigated?
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when you get a hold of the call that caused the investigation, let me know.
 
RR7 said:
when you get a hold of the call that caused the investigation, let me know.
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The authorities came to his house looking for the gun in the picture. Why do you suppose that was? They knew about the gun in the picture.
 
Denny Crane said:
A photo on a Facebook page?
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I agree that this picture was not showing a child that appeared to be endangered. Facebook pictures however have been used in CPS cases. There was a fairly recent story of some girl who took a picture of her baby with a bong. Looked like the baby was smoking it but it was an obvious joke as the baby would have been to young to do so even with help. However the mom did get a vist from CPS over it. Bad judgement on her part but thats about it, cant remember how it turned out though.
 
donkiez said:
I agree that this picture was not showing a child that appeared to be endangered. Facebook pictures however have been used in CPS cases. There was a fairly recent story of some girl who took a picture of her baby with a bong. Looked like the baby was smoking it but it was an obvious joke as the baby would have been to young to do so even with help. However the mom did get a vist from CPS over it. Bad judgement on her part but thats about it, cant remember how it turned out though.
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Hopefully she sued them.
 
Denny Crane said:
How about you find a single article out of the dozens here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sea...p.r_qf.&fp=35d6fa5bcf6004d4&biw=1325&bih=1225

Like one that says the picture wasn't the cause of the government's abuse of power?

(numerous of those stories say the CPS showed up asking to see the gun)
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Abuse of power. Got a call, checked in on the call, listened to the father, apparetly, when he didn't want to show them his guns. What abuse of power? SUE! Sue!!!!!
 
RR7 said:
Abuse of power. Got a call, checked in on the call, listened to the father, apparetly, when he didn't want to show them his guns. What abuse of power? SUE! Sue!!!!!
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How'd you like the cops to show up armed at your house for no valid reason?

Scare the shit out of your wife and kids if you're not there?
 
Denny Crane said:
How'd you like the cops to show up armed at your house for no valid reason?

Scare the shit out of your wife and kids if you're not there?
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If someone calls CPS with a complaint about me, I'd be annoyed at that person. Not the police. Not CPS. I'd be happy to know that CPS takes their job seriously to check in on the tips, to protect kids.
 
RR7 said:
they have every right, I suppose, to waste their own money pursuing a lawsuit. Seems stupid as hell to me. Service followed up on a tip, seemingly did absolutely nothing wrong, and left when asked it sounds like.
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Do you see ANY reason at all that the CPS should follow up on an anonymous tip that there are guns at someone's house?

If they did any kind of background check, they'd have found the guy is certified firearms instructor and safety inspector.
 
And what do you propose, they ignore tips? Only act on something if they specifically see abuse?
 
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