OT Cleveland Indians vs. Chicago Cubs series thread..

[julius]

Well shit man, the Vikings stole and raped and murdered all up and down Europe. They were prolific pirates in their time. Why doesn't anyone care that there are sports teams with names like Pittsburgh Pirates, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, or Minnesota Vikings?

Pirates aren't a race of people. Neither are Buccaneers. And if you want to claim that the NAME Viking is offensive, go ahead. But we're talking about the logo.

The ONLY thing you've complained about the Vikings logo is that it has the horns, which for some reason was a created characteristic that was (wrongly) associated with the Vikings.

And somehow I think that horns on a drawing aren't as dehumanizing as a logo drawn to emphasize non white difference in them.

 

[Nate]

They aren't done for comedic effect or to emphasize negative stereo types.

What negative stereotype is chief wahoo portraying? A big nose?

 

[julius]

You have to see the irony in one white guy telling another white guy that he doesn't get to have an opinion on the matter BECAUSE he's a white guy.

Where did I say you don't get to have an opinion on the matter? You're just going with the typical white guy responses to any time anyone says that the Redskins name or Indians logo is maybe offensive or insensitive.

"What about whites? Vikings don't have horns, that's racist!"

"not all patriots were white, that's insensitive!"

If Native Americans (or whatever term you want to call them) find the logo offensive, guess what? It's offensive.


If people of Viking (or Scandinavian descent) found the logo of the Vikings offensive or insensitive, then guess what? They can do something about it.

If Irish people felt that the Celtics logo or Notre Dame's logo was the same, they can do something about it.

Oddly enough, you're not going to find many people of Irish or Scandinavian descent that find those logos or team names offensive. And oddly enough the people who don't find Indians or Redskins offensive tend to be white people, of which neither logo or name is about or in reference to.

 

[e_blazer]

With all of the crap that we have to deal with in this world, I'm constantly astonished at the continued debates over sports logos. It's a freakin' logo, for crying out loud. This one's certainly stereotypical, even if the intent was never to disparage a group of people. Include the local tribes in designing a new logo and change the damned thing.

 

[Chris Craig]

Well shit man, the Vikings stole and raped and murdered all up and down Europe. They were prolific pirates in their time. Why doesn't anyone care that there are sports teams with names like Pittsburgh Pirates, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, or Minnesota Vikings?

Yes, minnesota probably didn't pick the best image for their team when they picked the Vikings as a name. Yes,those logos are caricatures. But, that or pirates, or even buccaneers is quite different. Here is the difference. Scandinavian people haven't been trying for decades to get the Vikings to change there names, neither I am sure do pirates and bucanneers have issue with their personas being used. Native Americans have been fighting for years to get the name And logo changed because they as a people feel it is racist and demeaning, therefore it is racist and demeaning. When the Scandinavians start an outcry we can talk about minnesota.

 

[Nate]

Seriously? I'm shaking my head right now. Have some respect, as you would, or at least should for all other races. They are Native Americans because they were here before we got here, and stole there land and cattle and raped their women. That shit is what Cleveland's team name and logo represent, not the true nature of a great people.

Don't try to act like the Asian people that walked to present day America were saints. They were constantly killing each other over land and resources. Sucks for them, that a bunch of people better at killing people for land, came and killed them for land. That's what's been going on for all of eternity.

 

[Natebishop3]

Pirates aren't a race of people. Neither are Buccaneers. And if you want to claim that the NAME Viking is offensive, go ahead. But we're talking about the logo.

The ONLY thing you've complained about the Vikings logo is that it has the horns, which for some reason was a created characteristic that was (wrongly) associated with the Vikings.

And somehow I think that horns on a drawing aren't as dehumanizing as a logo drawn to emphasize non white difference in them.

But the heart of that issue is that white people don't find drawings of white people, or caricatures of white people, to be offensive. There's a reason why comedians have open season on white jokes. We don't give a shit. We aren't sensitive about insults about our race. We just kinda laugh and nod our head and move on. As he pointed out, the Celtics logo is a caricature of an Irish person. Does anyone give a shit? Fuck no.

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

 

[Nate]

Pirates aren't a race of people. Neither are Buccaneers. And if you want to claim that the NAME Viking is offensive, go ahead. But we're talking about the logo.

The ONLY thing you've complained about the Vikings logo is that it has the horns, which for some reason was a created characteristic that was (wrongly) associated with the Vikings.

And somehow I think that horns on a drawing aren't as dehumanizing as a logo drawn to emphasize non white difference in them.

So you think it's dehumanizing, to not be white? I think we found the real racist here.

 

[Natebishop3]

If Native Americans (or whatever term you want to call them) find the logo offensive, guess what? It's offensive.

There were millions of natives in North America. Hundreds, if not thousands, of nations of people. Some of the descendants of those people find sports teams with those names and logos offensive, some do not. So if some find it offensive, is that enough to change them? Using what you said, if one or 10 or 20, or 100, or 1000 Scandinavians find the Vikings logo offensive, should they have to change it?

These days, it seems like it's mostly white people are out trying to enforce political correctness FOR other people. Here you are, a white guy, standing up for the native tribes of North America.

 

[julius]

Do you have any clue about the history of Vikings? So the white caricatures aren't done for comedic effect, nor do they emphasize negative stereotypes? Really? It's not a stereotype that white people invade, rape, pillage, and conquer? Like what the Vikings did? It's not a negative stereotype that Irish people get in fights a lot? The stupid little leprechaun isn't a comedic representation of Irish people?

You're telling me that the Vikings logo was done for comedic effect, and to emphasize a negative stereotype? And that it wasn't chosen by the owners, of which some if not all, had Scandinavian heritage? All this time it was a ruse to get people to think negatively about the Vikings?

Or that the fighting Irish, which is reference to people who are strong willed and determined, NOT that they get in fights a lot. @Jesus Christ Son of God man...

You guys are you're just making this even worse.

Was the guy who designed the Indians logo in the 40's (different from their earlier logos, which are similar to the Redskins and Blackhawks) a Native American? And the owners of the Indians at the time were themselves of Native American decent and chose the design because they felt it was honorable to have that as their design?

The original design of Chief Wahoo was obvious inspired by cartoons of the era, which still glorified whites as the saviors and indians as the savages.

 

[julius]

So you think it's dehumanizing, to not be white? I think we found the real racist here.

what in the hell?

 

[Natebishop3]

You're telling me that the Vikings logo was done for comedic effect, and to emphasize a negative stereotype? And that it wasn't chosen by the owners, of which some if not all, had Scandinavian heritage? All this time it was a ruse to get people to think negatively about the Vikings?

Or that the fighting Irish, which is reference to people who are strong willed and determined, NOT that they get in fights a lot. @Jesus Christ Son of God man...

You guys are you're just making this even worse.

Was the guy who designed the Indians logo in the 40's (different from their earlier logos, which are similar to the Redskins and Blackhawks) a Native American? And the owners of the Indians at the time were themselves of Native American decent and chose the design because they felt it was honorable to have that as their design?

The original design of Chief Wahoo was obvious inspired by cartoons of the era, which still glorified whites as the saviors and indians as the savages.

If you're right, why would they want to depict their team as a joke?

 

[julius]

But the heart of that issue is that white people don't find drawings of white people, or caricatures of white people, to be offensive. There's a reason why comedians have open season on white jokes. We don't give a shit. We aren't sensitive about insults about our race. We just kinda laugh and nod our head and move on. As he pointed out, the Celtics logo is a caricature of an Irish person. Does anyone give a shit? Fuck no.

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

@SlyPokerDog did I not call it??

 

[julius]

If you're right, why would they want to depict their team as a joke?

because thats how Natives were represented by white people in the time it was written.

Same reason why you don't hear a lot about Speedy Gonzolas and Slow Poke Rodriguez. Times change.

 

[Nate]

You're telling me that the Vikings logo was done for comedic effect, and to emphasize a negative stereotype? And that it wasn't chosen by the owners, of which some if not all, had Scandinavian heritage? All this time it was a ruse to get people to think negatively about the Vikings?

Or that the fighting Irish, which is reference to people who are strong willed and determined, NOT that they get in fights a lot. @Jesus Christ Son of God man...

You guys are you're just making this even worse.

Was the guy who designed the Indians logo in the 40's (different from their earlier logos, which are similar to the Redskins and Blackhawks) a Native American? And the owners of the Indians at the time were themselves of Native American decent and chose the design because they felt it was honorable to have that as their design?

The original design of Chief Wahoo was obvious inspired by cartoons of the era, which still glorified whites as the saviors and indians as the savages.

Again, the hypocrisy is unreal. The caricature of a little Irishman is comedic. Do you think that's what all Irish people look like? Do you think all Irish people are violent, and have a fighting spirit? Those are stereotypes.
And I just spelled out the stereotype about Vikings/white people/Scandinavians. It's like talking to wall.

 

[Nate]

what in the hell?

That's exactly what you wrote buddy.

 

[julius]

Again, the hypocrisy is unreal. The caricature of a little Irishman is comedic. Do you think that's what all Irish people look like? Do you think all Irish people are violent, and have a fighting spirit? Those are stereotypes.
And I just spelled out the stereotype about Vikings. It's like talking to wall.

who said anything about violent?

Again, if people of Irish descent and Scandinavian descent find it offensive, they can do something about it. Until that point, you're just whining because you don't find something offensive, that many native americans do.

If many Irish people found it offensive (or Scans) I wouldn't care if they changed the names/logo. Thats the difference here. You seem hell bent on keeping something the same that you don't find offensive, whereas I would be fine with it.

Although I know that will just bring out a bunch of red herrings here..so I'll say this.


Go Cubs.

 

[Natebishop3]

@SlyPokerDog did I not call it??

Do you know what pisses me off about debating an issue with a liberal? The moral high ground shit. I'm trying to talk about logic, and you're posting shit like this:

Oh god, poor white people just get to be called "Americans". The humanity!

says the guy who is of the group that has historically gotten to decide who is and isn't an American. So magnanimous of you to say we don't need to single out every difference anymore.

I'm talking about my opinions, and your retort is essentially "IT'S BAD BECAUSE IT'S BAD"

We get it. White people are bad. White people are the devil. White people are all that's wrong with this country.

 

[julius]

That's exactly what you wrote buddy.

No, you're trying to change my point to that because you think it's how you argue.

It had nothing to do with being white = human, it has to do with how the majority of the country at the time was white, and "white" has been historically what those in power/control considered the template, and any difference between whites and non whites, is exaggerated for emphasis, especially in these kinds of things.

You know that, I know that. In fact, you KNOW that's not what I said or meant, and it's disingenuous for you to act otherwise. Unless you dont know the history behind caricatures and propaganda, and what role of dehumanizing has to do with it, and what part the majority race at the time has in it...

 

[julius]

Do you know what pisses me off about debating an issue with a liberal? The moral high ground shit. I'm trying to talk about logic, and you're posting shit like this:

You know what annoys me about debating an issue with a "conservative"? Bat shit logic like the following

I'm talking about my opinions, and your retort is essentially "IT'S BAD BECAUSE IT'S BAD"

We get it. White people are bad. White people are the devil. White people are all that's wrong with this country.

Never said any of that, never implied it and don't feel that to be the case. But feel free to think that I said it, implied it and feel it, if it makes you feel as though you are the winner in this debate.

 

[Nate]

who said anything about violent?

Again, if people of Irish descent and Scandinavian descent find it offensive, they can do something about it. Until that point, you're just whining because you don't find something offensive, that many native americans do.

If many Irish people found it offensive (or Scans) I wouldn't care if they changed the names/logo. Thats the difference here. You seem hell bent on keeping something the same that you don't find offensive, whereas I would be fine with it.

Although I know that will just bring out a bunch of red herrings here..so I'll say this.


Go Cubs.

Fighting, is violent..... what does this logo look like to you? http://www.sports-logos-screensavers.com/user/NotreDameFightingIrish9.jpg

And you really think that a logo would change just because a bunch of white people complained? I'm not whining about anything. All I'm saying is this, if chief wahoo is offensive, then so is every caricature of a white person. And I think we both know, the logo of a stupid little Irish guy isn't going to change just because a bunch of white people cry about it.

 

[Natebishop3]

You know what annoys me about debating an issue with a "conservative"? Bat shit logic like the following



Never said any of that, never implied it and don't feel that to be the case. But feel free to think that I said it, implied it and feel it, if it makes you feel as though you are the winner in this debate.

Not a conservative. Sorry. You'll have to find another label for me.

 

[julius]

Not a conservative. Sorry. You'll have to find another label for me.

Bull to the shit.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I don't mean to break up the racism argument but I do want to take a second to be the mirror of @Strenuus

Baseball sucks. I haven't watched a second of it on purpose because it's the worst major team sport in existence. I'm very proud of myself for not watching the world series, it means I'm cooler than all of you that watch this shitty sport.

 

[julius]

Fighting, is violent..... what does this logo look like to you? http://www.sports-logos-screensavers.com/user/NotreDameFightingIrish9.jpg

And you really think that a logo would change just because a bunch of white people complained? I'm not whining about anything. All I'm saying is this, if chief wahoo is offensive, then so is every caricature of a white person. And I think we both know, the logo of a stupid little Irish guy isn't going to change just because a bunch of white people cry about it.

Fighting spirit does not mean violence. It means you're strong, and steadfast.

It won't change because very few white people find it offensive.

If you were to poll people here, the only ones who would find it offensive are you, the other nate, and El Presidente. And the only reason he would is because he likes to be edgy and think it's funny when he does shit like that.


Good god...Go Cubs.

let's just agree to disagree and go back to whats important. Getting Jake Layman to start!

 

[Natebishop3]

Bull to the shit.

I voted in favor of gay marriage.

I'm for a woman's right to choose.

I'm not voting for Trump. I didn't vote for Romney. So what's your definition of a conservative?

I'm employed in the green industry and I'm working to save the planet. What the fuck have YOU done to save the world Mr. Liberal white man?

 

[Nate]

Fighting spirit does not mean violence. It means you're strong, and steadfast.

It won't change because very few white people find it offensive.

If you were to poll people here, the only ones who would find it offensive are you, the other nate, and El Presidente. And the only reason he would is because he likes to be edgy and think it's funny when he does shit like that.


Good god...Go Cubs.

let's just agree to disagree and go back to whats important. Getting Jake Layman to start!

Yeah the stupid little Irish logo is punching things in spirit. Jesus Christ. It's a logo of a stupid looking small Irish person, with his fists up, and they're called the fighting Irish.... how many more stereotypical things could they fit in that logo?
I forgot, he has a stupid fucking clover on his dumb hat. I guess he's just missing a bottle of alcohol.

 

[julius]

I voted in favor of gay marriage.

I'm for a woman's right to choose.

I'm not voting for Trump. I didn't vote for Romney. So what's your definition of a conservative?

There are far more than 3 things that decide if you're conservative or not. For example,

I'm not voting for Hilary (she's not a liberal anyways) and I didn't vote for Bernie.

I'm fine with the death penalty.

I think certain rights should be denied to certain people.

Not a fan of the UN.

I'm fine if they re-did the draft (esp now that I'm too old).

I'm fine with the TSA.

I don't like the idea of Eminent Domain.

 

[julius]

Yeah the stupid little Irish logo is punching things in spirit. Jesus Christ. It's a logo of a stupid looking small Irish person, with his fists up, and they're called the fighting Irish.... how many more stereotypical things could they fit in that logo?
I forgot, he has a stupid fucking clover on his dumb hat. I guess he's just missing a bottle of alcohol.

start a petition then. or quit bitching about it.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Can we please put this lie to bed?

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

"To claim that Gore was seriously trying to take credit for the "invention" of the Internet is, frankly, just silly political posturing that arose out of a close presidential campaign. If, for example, President Eisenhower had said in the mid-1960s that he, while president, "took the initiative in creating the Interstate Highway System," he would not have been the subject of dozens and dozens of editorials lampooning him for claiming he "invented" the concept of highways or implying that he personally went out and dug ditches across the country to help build the roadway. Everyone would have understood that Eisenhower meant he was a driving force behind the legislation that created the highway system, and this was the very same concept Al Gore was expressing about himself with interview remarks about the Internet."

There.

GO CUBS.