Politics C'Mon, Dems....

[e_blazer]

No, that's not all you said:
"Given the inability of two parties to ferret out even one decent candidate out of 330 million people, are we sure that more parties will increase the odds?"

Ah. That was intended as a throwaway laugh line. I guess it didn’t come through to you that way.

 

[e_blazer]

It does if you switch to republican and they win!

We live in Oregon. It really makes zero difference who we vote for for president. As long as Multnomah County continues to be solid Blue, this state’s EC votes are always going to the Dem anyway. I’ll probably vote Biden this year just to give Trump the finger, but I might just as well vote Wile E Coyote for all the difference it makes.

 

[julius]

We live in Oregon. It really makes zero difference who we vote for for president. As long as Multnomah County continues to be solid Blue, this state’s EC votes are always going to the Dem anyway. I’ll probably vote Biden this year just to give Trump the finger, but I might just as well vote Wile E Coyote for all the difference it makes.

Especially since by the time the votes are tallied (tho mail in ballots make this point kind of moot), the election is already over with.

 

[Hoopguru]

The more that the percentage of independents increases hopefully, it waters down/neutralizes the radical extremes, on both sides. Its the very reason Joe is dominating Bernie. It didn't work for the 2016 republican primary? should have, but it did in the general as many dems/independents/mod's voted against Hillary rather than a vote for Trump. And it would happen again with her running. So critical to get the right candidate.

 

[Lanny]

Why must I be a teenager in love?

barfo

Dion & The Belmonts - A Teenager in Love



One of my favorite teenage songs.

 

[ABM]

But the thing that disturbs me nearly as much as Trump's ineptitude is that most of his supporters STILL refuse to acknowledge it..

You'll be fine. You now have a garden to tend to......just in time!

 

[yankeesince59]

You'll be fine. You now have a garden to tend to......just in time!

Trust me, I can multi-task...so juggling your silly posts and tilling a garden is not a challenge at all...especially the former.

 

[ABM]

Trust me, I can multi-task...so juggling your silly posts and tilling a garden is not a challenge at all...especially the former.

The operative word is juggling. Don't drop anything. Heh.

 

[yankeesince59]

No need to worry about that.

 

[yankeesince59]

Dion & The Belmonts - A Teenager in Love



One of my favorite teenage songs.

And this one also by Dion was one of my favs in my teens...

 

[ABM]

No need to worry about that.

I never worry about you. But, sometimes, your excessive heel nipping tends to be a bit tedious. I know you can't help yourself, though, so I generally let it slide.

 

[Hoopguru]

That's great, but which third party? Adding up support for all the possible third parties actually tells you nothing. If 5% want libertarianism, 5% want socialism, 5% want pure centrism, 5% want fascism, etc--you're no closer to a third party winning than if there was 0% support for third parties. You're not somehow uniting a wide spread of vastly different views just because none of them prefer to vote for the Democrats or Republicans.

I get it, its the old way of thinking, two's company but three's a crowd? The fear of not getting preferential treatment and the ability to not be threatened by anyone new to the seen. If the benefit is watering down the two primary parties to reduce their influential power to promote a more fair platform thats just not bank rolled by the two committees & media, that benefits the public with more options and political philosophies.
Right now the two control and manipulate. But I guess thats the whole reason to get into politics?

 

[Hoopguru]

Two parties is fine if at least one of them will stop giving us horrible candidates. Given the inability of two parties to ferret out even one decent candidate out of 330 million people, are we sure that more parties will increase the odds?

Seems to me that if the public is exposed FAIRLY to more options, with debates & equitable media coverage, it's certainly could.

 

[Hoopguru]

Two parties is fine if at least one of them will stop giving us horrible candidates. Given the inability of two parties to ferret out even one decent candidate out of 330 million people, are we sure that more parties will increase the odds?

If I register as an independent but continue to vote for Democrats, does that make 3rd parties viable?

I don't think so.

barfo

Sure does if the reason you are registered as na independent, is to give an option. Look at how many voted for Bernie and even Trump. Id say that's viable but still not as powerful (Joe Biden) as two prominent parties with clear advantages for committee platforms, media coverage & limited debate promoted by both parties.

 

[Minstrel]

I get it, its the old way of thinking, two's company but three's a crowd? The fear of not getting preferential treatment and the ability to not be threatened by anyone new to the seen. If the benefit is watering down the two primary parties to reduce their influential power to promote a more fair platform thats just not bank rolled by the two committees & media, that benefits the public with more options and political philosophies.

Again, though. Which third party? Showing a graph that support for "a third party" is at an all-time high doesn't mean anything. If all those people are split over 100 different political beliefs and philosophies, no single third party still has any chance of competing.

Our current political system will never allow for a competitive third party. If you want more parties to, uh, join the party, you need to change the American political system. Either changing our voting system from "first past the post" to either ranked-choice or run-off voting, or else (and this isn't happening) switching to a parliamentary system.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Again, though. Which third party? Showing a graph that support for "a third party" is at an all-time high doesn't mean anything. If all those people are split over 100 different political beliefs and philosophies, no single third party still has any chance of competing.

Our current political system will never allow for a competitive third party. If you want more parties to, uh, join the party, you need to change the American political system. Either changing our voting system from "first past the post" to either ranked-choice or run-off voting, or else (and this isn't happening) switching to a parliamentary system.

The Republican and Democrat parties have plenty of fragmentation amongst their own too, sometimes fairly drastic. So yeah independents needs consolidation into something. What's even interesting is I've seen that a lot of, Bernie supporters would abstain from voting rather than vote for Biden. I think personally I would rather have basically no parties. An issue that independents have though is that most are just sick of the politics in general and don't want to align with anyone because they distrust everyone. I'm not sure what's worse, the disorganization of independents or the organization of the two Political machines. For whatever reason, (probably tribalism), the R's and D's have historically put aside their differences internally to vote for and support whoever waves the letter that they've decided they like better.

 

[Hoopguru]

Again, though. Which third party? Showing a graph that support for "a third party" is at an all-time high doesn't mean anything. If all those people are split over 100 different political beliefs and philosophies, no single third party still has any chance of competing.

Our current political system will never allow for a competitive third party. If you want more parties to, uh, join the party, you need to change the American political system. Either changing our voting system from "first past the post" to either ranked-choice or run-off voting, or else (and this isn't happening) switching to a parliamentary system.

I get what you are saying, but in todays world with social media and the speed of communication, right wrong or indifferent, I can see more than just a two party plat form making noise. Yes, there numerous other parties that haven't been able to get the support or through the blockade, but just the fact that someone like Trump could come out of now where and beat down the party establishment and that Bernie as not even a dem could compete for their nomination, tells me that political segmentation is indeed going to be a factor more so down the road.

 

[Hoopguru]

Im predicting a new Cable channel will evolve around a no party, but independent voice, representing the various segments. All that is needed is a larger platform to compete against the two party controlled media debates.

 

[yankeesince59]

I never worry about you. But, sometimes, your excessive heel nipping tends to be a bit tedious. I know you can't help yourself, though, so I generally let it slide.

lol...nice try, but no...what you usually doo is whine.

... waiting for your next trollish thread that ends up blowing up in your face...I mean it's only been a day or 2 since your last one...c'mon man

 

[ABM]

lol...nice try, but no...what you usually doo is whine.

... waiting for your next trollish thread that ends up blowing up in your face...I mean it's only been a day or 2 since your last one...c'mon man

LOL. Nothing has blown up in my face, pal. Oh, are you talking about the Trump drivel from all the lefty minions? Y'right. Wayside material.

At any rate, lighten up, Francis. You got Joe. He'll be certain to get you to your long-awaited promised land.

 

[Lanny]

Trust me, I can multi-task...so juggling your silly posts and tilling a garden is not a challenge at all...especially the former.

I always put my heart and soul into tilling as I did with all manual labor. The soil had to be perfect when I was done. Also, I loved the smell of fresh tilled soil. Made it the perfect backdrop for the evening BBQ.

 

[Chris Craig]

@ABM and @yankeesince59 lets chill it out a bit. Many of us here have very different political views. Let's stick to the ideas and not have goes at each other. As crazy as things are and as passionate as we are with our beliefs, we could all do with a little civility towards one another. It goes a long way.

 

[barfo]

I get what you are saying, but in todays world with social media and the speed of communication, right wrong or indifferent, I can see more than just a two party plat form making noise. Yes, there numerous other parties that haven't been able to get the support or through the blockade, but just the fact that someone like Trump could come out of now where and beat down the party establishment and that Bernie as not even a dem could compete for their nomination, tells me that political segmentation is indeed going to be a factor more so down the road.

I'd say Bernie and Trump are arguments for why the two party system is sufficiently adaptable to eliminate the need for third parties. If non-party actors can gain the nomination of a major party (or come close twice in the case of Bernie) then it seems that the parties aren't actually controlling everything and forcing their preferred candidates upon the voters. What would a Trump or a Bernie running as a 3rd party candidate add that you don't get with them running within the existing parties?

barfo

 

[ABM]

@ABM and @yankeesince59 lets chill it out a bit. Many of us here have very different political views. Let's stick to the ideas and not have goes at each other. As crazy as things are and as passionate as we are with our beliefs, we could all do with a little civility towards one another. It goes a long way.

Actually, it's ABM vs. around 97% of the hard working, left-leaning, Trump-hating masses in here. I'm simply equal opportunity!

 

[Lanny]

Actually, it's ABM vs. around 97% of the hard working, left-leaning, Trump-hating masses in here. I'm simply equal opportunity!

Come on ABM, I have never attacked you and I never will.
I've also never attacked yankeesince59 and never will.
As for your spats, I try to stay out of them because I like both of you. Okay, there, I've admitted to my first and only foible, well that and drinking beer out of the bottle.

 

[ABM]

Come on ABM, I have never attacked you and I never will.
I've also never attacked yankeesince59 and never will.
As for your spats, I try to stay out of them because I like both of you. Okay, there, I've admitted to my first and only foible, well that and drinking beer out of the bottle.

Nah, Lanny...you're part of the 3%.

 

[Hoopguru]

Whats is needed, is to get

I'd say Bernie and Trump are arguments for why the two party system is sufficiently adaptable to eliminate the need for third parties. If non-party actors can gain the nomination of a major party (or come close twice in the case of Bernie) then it seems that the parties aren't actually controlling everything and forcing their preferred candidates upon the voters. What would a Trump or a Bernie running as a 3rd party candidate add that you don't get with them running within the existing parties?

barfo

You may be right in that the third party/non party actors may responsible for renegades like Bernie and Trump but my point has to do with the vehicle they used could lead to more qualified candidates and more competition besides just the two. It's a new era for political marketing and strategies. If the two parties have more equitable competition it should drive up the qualified options.

Lets say if a few of the dems from the recent primary & a few of the past repub's candidates from the 2016 primary and there was no party afflilation, and they had equal debate's and equal media coverage, and could get on the primary ballets, chances are, you'd have two different people running for president and certainly more qualified/capable, than the two that will run in 2020

Sort of like a four team bracket in the end with the top two running for Pres.

 

[yankeesince59]

"Trump is gone".

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

"Trump is gone".

Whered he go?

 

[yankeesince59]

Whered he go?

I've been trying to get an answer to that question myself...no luck.

http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/cmon-dems.355303/#post-4926033