Comparing Asik and Lopez

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TowelBoy said:
If Lopez played so well that he could net you Asik straight up, that would only serve to further cement Olshey's brilliance.
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Lopez is not a liability on offense. You can't leave him to double LMA. His baby hook is reliable as are his free throws.

Asik has none of those strengths. He is a better rebounded and I would want him. But we need two big centers. Trading Lopez to get him does not accomplish that
 
magnifier661 said:
Well hopefully he finds a good eastern conference team that will massage his ego. I don't want no part of him here. Him and Turk can rub each other's sausages
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They are both Turkish. Is it racist if I say I don't want any Turks on the team? :( Let's just call it a cultural gap.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Lopez is not a liability on offense. You can't leave him to double LMA. His baby hook is reliable as are his free throws.

Asik has none of those strengths. He is a better rebounded and I would want him. But we need two big centers. Trading Lopez to get him does not accomplish that
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God could you imagine if okc could be able to sag off our center to double Aldridge? Lopez made them pay badly tonight for sagging.
 
With the way the team is playing I don't see any trade happening during the season. The players are clearly buying into what Stotts has taught them. Even if we could clearly upgrade the talent the player coming in wouldn't be able to get up to speed on our teams concepts, rotations on defense, sets in offense. The players on the roster now have been working on that stuff for many months. With all the travel and back to back there isn't enough practice time for a new player to help this team.
 
Blazer Fanatic said:
Do the math. If you're going to suggest this, show me the math.

Who is Portland giving up?
Why is Houston making that deal?
How does it make Houston better?
Who are the odd men out/waived on 15 man rosters on either team?

Opportunity cost. Show me the math. I don't think you are a Homer, but explain why this works.
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If by math you mean Trade Machine stuff, trading Lopez, Leonard, and another cheap piece for Asik works. McCollum and Claver and Barton all work as the third piece.

Houston makes the deal because they should be able to trade Asik (a great center playing a few minutes a game) for other pieces that provide more overall value to their team. The salary and talent on their team is currently distributed inefficiently; that should be easy enough for anyone to see. So yes, an Asik deal theoretically makes them better if they find the right one. It just depends what they are able to extract out of another team.

Personally I have a BIG problem giving up McCollum because he's a potential star we haven't seen in action yet. If the Rockets can't dupe another one of the 28 teams into taking Asik, I would have to think McCollum and Lopez gets their attention. The argument for us giving up on the kid would be that we are already a contender without him. The Rockets gave up something young and shiny to get Harden: Jeremy Lamb and picks. Asik is no Harden, but you give up something young and shiny if you think it puts you over the top.

I think if Houston doesn't get the value they are looking for and would have to "settle" for Lopez and players we don't particularly care about (such as Claver or Barton or, arguably, Leonard), I think that's a freaking no brainer.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Lopez is not a liability on offense. You can't leave him to double LMA. His baby hook is reliable as are his free throws.

Asik has none of those strengths. He is a better rebounded and I would want him. But we need two big centers. Trading Lopez to get him does not accomplish that
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Fair points. I like the idea of both of them, obviously. I've just been operating under the assumption that Lopez would be the first piece inserted into Asik trade talks, and then despite the give and take, it makes us better overall.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
How much salary do we need in order to trade for him? He makes 5.25 this year and 15 next year.

Did someone say it was around 8? If this is true then it would be tough to make a deal.

If it is around 5-6 mil, then I would put Leonard, Claver and Joel in play. Not willing to gamble with anyone else other than Barton and Crabbe.
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joel is in his second year and playing solid veteran like defense and offensive rebounding like a champ.

lopez and joel are both playing their roles perfectly. we beat the pacers and okc. we dont need to raise the ceiling, we just need to continue to play there.

not to mention aldridge likes them. the whole team likes eachother, now is not the time to fuck it up
 
Draco said:
With the way the team is playing I don't see any trade happening during the season. The players are clearly buying into what Stotts has taught them. Even if we could clearly upgrade the talent the player coming in wouldn't be able to get up to speed on our teams concepts, rotations on defense, sets in offense. The players on the roster now have been working on that stuff for many months. With all the travel and back to back there isn't enough practice time for a new player to help this team.
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I buy this too. Probably the best argument against pursuing Asik.
 
i wouldn't trade Robin Lopez for Brook Lopez right now, let alone Asik.
 
magnifier661 said:
God could you imagine if okc could be able to sag off our center to double Aldridge? Lopez made them pay badly tonight for sagging.
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There is a reason Chicago was happy to see Asik go on that contract. Nobody there is interested in bringing him back.
 
In this thread I'm actually less interested in the merits of pursuing Asik (which brings in a LOT of factors) and more interested in comparing Lopez and Asik as pure defensive centers. Honestly I'd love to be convinced that Lopez has somehow already achieved uber elite status, but the only arguments I've seen so far are RAH RAH RAH GO BLAZERS!!!!
 
TowelBoy said:
In this thread I'm actually less interested in the merits of pursuing Asik (which brings in a LOT of factors) and more interested in comparing Lopez and Asik as pure defensive centers. Honestly I'd love to be convinced that Lopez has somehow already achieved uber elite status, but the only arguments I've seen so far are RAH RAH RAH GO BLAZERS!!!!
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16-3 is a pretty damn good argument. Maybe the team putting a lot of emphasis with how well Lopez works with them?
 
Interesting that a Los Angles talk show was discussing Asik today. They proposed taking both Lin and Asik's contracts off Houston's hands. (giving Houston flexibility this summer) They would give up Nash.....

Their thinking was that it would help them now, and also in two years when they want cap space. Said Lin played his best ball under D'Antoni , and Asik would give them a defensive presence. They even mentioned trading Gasol if necessary.
 
TowelBoy said:
If by math you mean Trade Machine stuff, trading Lopez, Leonard, and another cheap piece for Asik works. McCollum and Claver and Barton all work as the third piece.

Houston makes the deal because they should be able to trade Asik (a great center playing a few minutes a game) for other pieces that provide more overall value to their team. The salary and talent on their team is currently distributed inefficiently; that should be easy enough for anyone to see. So yes, an Asik deal theoretically makes them better if they find the right one. It just depends what they are able to extract out of another team.

Personally I have a BIG problem giving up McCollum because he's a potential star we haven't seen in action yet. If the Rockets can't dupe another one of the 28 teams into taking Asik, I would have to think McCollum and Lopez gets their attention. The argument for us giving up on the kid would be that we are already a contender without him. The Rockets gave up something young and shiny to get Harden: Jeremy Lamb and picks. Asik is no Harden, but you give up something young and shiny if you think it puts you over the top.

I think if Houston doesn't get the value they are looking for and would have to "settle" for Lopez and players we don't particularly care about (such as Claver or Barton or, arguably, Leonard), I think that's a freaking no brainer.
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You did not answer the question as to why Houston makes that trade. You said "value". What value is being added to Houston? If the answer is "not so much" then this entire argument is DOA - dead on arrival.

You failed the question of opportunity cost. Losing Lopez does nothing but jack up the chemistry for Portland.
 
magnifier661 said:
16-3 is a pretty damn good argument. Maybe the team putting a lot of emphasis with how well Lopez works with them?
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Not only is "16-3" not a "good" argument as between Asik and Lopez, it's not argument at all.
 
What is your agenda in this thread, TowelBoy?

You rarely post in 5 years as a member, yet you show up after a huge Blazer win insinuating that Lopez should be traded.

Then, you give one word responses when people question your thread. What did you think was going to happen after posting this thread tonight?
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Interesting that a Los Angles talk show was discussing Asik today. They proposed taking both Lin and Asik's contracts off Houston's hands. (giving Houston flexibility this summer) They would give up Nash.....

Their thinking was that it would help them now, and also in two years when they want cap space. Said Lin played his best ball under D'Antoni , and Asik would give them a defensive presence. They even mentioned trading Gasol if necessary.
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Now that makes more sense
 
PapaG said:
What is your agenda in this thread, TowelBoy?

You rarely post in 5 years as a member, yet you show up after a huge Blazer win insinuating that Lopez should be traded.

Then, you give one word responses when people question your thread. What did you think was going to happen after posting this thread tonight?
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He's training to be an attorney. This is what they do. Works well in a court room. Not so well in a fan forum.
 
Blazer Fanatic said:
You did not answer the question as to why Houston makes that trade. You said "value". What value is being added to Houston? If the answer is "not so much" then this entire argument is DOA - dead on arrival.

You failed the question of opportunity cost. Losing Lopez does nothing but jakc up the chemistry for Portland.
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I think I did answer the value added question. If a team with an MVP-caliber center can trade a very good center for 2-3 good pieces they need more, they've improved their balance. And that doesn't even touch on the fact that NBA teams often make trades for chemistry reasons, and they might value getting the malcontent Asik out of town.

I don't know what you want me to say about the opportunity cost of losing Lopez. That issue is inherent in my central question of which center is better and by how much. If Asik is better, then by trading Lopez you get more than you give up. That's the definition of being better.
 
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