Comparing Asik and Lopez

[julius]

So, in your first post back to the boards, you wanted to start a thread that advocated trading Robin Lopez for Asik?

I do think you're using this as training for your new job as an ambulance chaser. Not a bad idea, IMO.

do we really need to take cheap shots at TowelBoy's career choice?

 

[Blazinaway]

Gasol is a better fit for Houston than Lopez. Also, the chatter was Lin + Asik + filler for Nash and gasol

I don't believe that trade would come close to working because of the huge difference in salaries

 

[Blazinaway]

If Philly were willing to accept that (which I doubt), I'd rather just trade for Hawes.

I agree, as I have thought on it Hawes is actually a better fit WITH Lopez and should be cheaper to acquire

 

[Natebishop3]

I wish Dallas would tank so we could pick up Dalembert off their rotting carcass.

He's averaging 7.6 points, 6.9 boards, and 1.5 blocks in 26 minutes per game for a 17.24 PER

 

[BBert]

The Asik talk is never going to die until he's trade somewhere. Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe spent several minutes of the latest podcast discussing Asik to Portland. Right now in the OKC aftermath, some national guys are tweeted nonstop about Portland's ceiling if they got Asik.

I have mixed feelings about it, because I would LOVE to get Asik but my gut is Houston would ask for more than we should give up.

Watching Lopez, though, does anyone else feel like his ceiling as a defensive role-playing center is ALMOST Asik-esque? I see him doing a lot of the same things and having a similar impact. Am I crazy?

I'm not going as far as to say Lopez is Asik's equal, but if the price for Asik was Lopez, McCollum, and Leonard (and maybe picks and cash on top of that)? I don't know if I make that deal.

I haven't read this thread, but I'll just say I don't believe a swap of Lopez for Asik would improve the Blazers AS A TEAM. Lopez is the perfect fit for us and plenty good enough with our roster. Since Houston isn't going to give us Asik for our scrubs or without getting back a key piece of our team, I say forget Asik and move on with the season. It will be funny when Houston can't get even close to what they want for him. I can't believe how Morey and the national media overvalue that guy.

 

[BBert]

I'm also going with the winning recipe which is what we have going now. Let's not Rod Strickland this up again.

Let's not Detlef Schrempf it either.

 

[donkiez]

This thread is so funny. I guess if we were sucking right now it would make more sense. Lopez and Freeland are perfect for this team right now. I can't imagine an upgrade that wouldn't throw off our chemistry and/or gut our team. Also if we somehow got Asik without loosing Lopez or any other major piece then Asik would be just as unhappy here because he would be sharing minutes with Lopez and probably wouldn't even start over him.

 

[Samuel]

I trust Neil Olshey to make the right move here. If he really likes Asik and views him as a significant upgrade who won't be any sort of issue from a chemistry standpoint, AND Houston has to give him up for significantly less than he's worth–he'll do it.

I think the trade Olshey should be looking at is moving guys like Meyers Leonard and Will Barton for other young, undervalued assets (Thomas Robinson types) who haven't cracked the rotation that Olshey values more than them. The Derrick Williams trade is a good example of this. Sometimes these guys just need a change of scenery with a different set of coaches who might have a more suitable philosophy/technique.

I would be shocked if Olshey stood pat at the trade deadline if they continue playing at this level, though. Guessing we'll see a minor trade to set the team up better for the playoffs... probably Claver or one of those guys for a backup big to put next to Freeland. Maybe another wing.

 

[ponderguy]

They are both Turkish. Is it racist if I say I don't want any Turks on the team? Let's just call it a cultural gap.

my general rule of thumb is if you have to ask if it's racist to say something it probably is

 

[Natebishop3]

I trust Neil Olshey to make the right move here. If he really likes Asik and views him as a significant upgrade who won't be any sort of issue from a chemistry standpoint, AND Houston has to give him up for significantly less than he's worth–he'll do it.

I think the trade Olshey should be looking at is moving guys like Meyers Leonard and Will Barton for other young, undervalued assets (Thomas Robinson types) who haven't cracked the rotation that Olshey values more than them. The Derrick Williams trade is a good example of this. Sometimes these guys just need a change of scenery with a different set of coaches who might have a more suitable philosophy/technique.

I would be shocked if Olshey stood pat at the trade deadline if they continue playing at this level, though. Guessing we'll see a minor trade to set the team up better for the playoffs... probably Claver or one of those guys for a backup big to put next to Freeland. Maybe another wing.

I disagree. I don't think he makes a trade if we're still in the top three by the trade deadline. More than one player has talked about the chemistry on the team, and I don't think Neil would mess with that. Despite the fact that I think this team still has a few weak spots, we can't really do anything about it because the team is playing so well. They've developed chemistry, and any trade at this point could seriously jeopardize what this team has built.

 

[BIG Q]

I haven't posted in a couple years, but this seems like a good thread to jump in on. Portland should only be looking to strengthen the bench with grizzled vets that have playoff experience. Deep runs into the playoffs vets. A Kurt Thomas 4/5 that isn't looking to start. Also a guy like Shane Battier that can swing between the 2/3. That is what this team needs. The starting five is golden unless you are offered a sweetheart no brainer deal like the Lakers got when they picked up Pau for a six pack and a pizza (I'm not saying I want Pau), just that type of hiway robbery.

Portland should be looking to teams that were considered contenders that are not now. If Chicago blows it up there may be something there. Teams that want to take to get more ping pong balls. We need to use any exceptions, cash and back end bench players we can to get key vets to back our starters and can be ready to step in in case of injury like Juwan Howard did a few years back. That is pretty much all this team needs to be looking to do.

 

[Natebishop3]

I haven't posted in a couple years, but this seems like a good thread to jump in on. Portland should only be looking to strengthen the bench with grizzled vets that have playoff experience. Deep runs into the playoffs vets. A Kurt Thomas 4/5 that isn't looking to start. Also a guy like Shane Battier that can swing between the 2/3. That is what this team needs. The starting five is golden unless you are offered a sweetheart no brainer deal like the Lakers got when they picked up Pau for a six pack and a pizza (I'm not saying I want Pau), just that type of hiway robbery.

Portland should be looking to teams that were considered contenders that are not now. If Chicago blows it up there may be something there. Teams that want to take to get more ping pong balls. We need to use any exceptions, cash and back end bench players we can to get key vets to back our starters and can be ready to step in in case of injury like Juwan Howard did a few years back. That is pretty much all this team needs to be looking to do.

The problem is that we don't have a big contract to move as part of the deal. Our two biggest deals are Aldridge and Batum. Most of our bench guys are making between 1-3 million a year. We'd have to send out a lot of guys to take back one contract. That's why a trade, at this point, would be very difficult to put together and could be very damaging to the chemistry we've built.

 

[ponderguy]

I've read a few responses and figured I'd throw my hat in the ring. Asik is a clear upgrade over Lopez in one extremely important area-Pick and Roll defense. Asik is one of if not THE best pick and roll defenders in the league and it is a big reason so many people love him. He is also a tremendous help defender.
here's a good article explaining some of his versatility on the defensive end
The part I want to highlight from that article is this:
Here, Tony Parker is trapped in the corner and Danny Green moves toward him for the escape pass. Tim Duncan sets an off-ball screen while this happens and Asik slides out of the paint and below the free throw line to help:

Green has nowhere to drive with Asik in position, so he passes to DeJuan Blair. Asik rotates back to the low post to help Patrick Patterson:

Blair passes out to Duncan below the opposite elbow. Jeremy Lin reacts by standing between Duncan and Parker -- this is known as "stunting" -- and is able to get away with it because Asik quickly recovers to Duncan after helping on Blair in the post.

Lin switches back to Parker and Asik is back in front of Duncan in time to challenge the shot and force a miss:

There are several other examples of his excellent defense in the article, another good one here:

One of the biggest drawbacks to Robin Lopez is he can only defend the rim area. If the opponent can draw him away from there it is easy pickings, either they get a basket or we have to foul to stop the layup. Asik would solve this issue, as well as bringing the same strengths as Lopez does while doing them all better.

 

[Natebishop3]

I've read a few responses and figured I'd throw my hat in the ring. Asik is a clear upgrade over Lopez in one extremely important area-Pick and Roll defense. Asik is one of if not THE best pick and roll defenders in the league and it is a big reason so many people love him. He is also a tremendous help defender.
here's a good article explaining some of his versatility on the defensive end
The part I want to highlight from that article is this:
Here, Tony Parker is trapped in the corner and Danny Green moves toward him for the escape pass. Tim Duncan sets an off-ball screen while this happens and Asik slides out of the paint and below the free throw line to help:

Green has nowhere to drive with Asik in position, so he passes to DeJuan Blair. Asik rotates back to the low post to help Patrick Patterson:

Blair passes out to Duncan below the opposite elbow. Jeremy Lin reacts by standing between Duncan and Parker -- this is known as "stunting" -- and is able to get away with it because Asik quickly recovers to Duncan after helping on Blair in the post.

Lin switches back to Parker and Asik is back in front of Duncan in time to challenge the shot and force a miss:

There are several other examples of his excellent defense in the article, another good one here:

One of the biggest drawbacks to Robin Lopez is he can only defend the rim area. If the opponent can draw him away from there it is easy pickings, either they get a basket or we have to foul to stop the layup. Asik would solve this issue, as well as bringing the same strengths as Lopez does while doing them all better.

You are underselling Lopez on offense. I do not think Asik brings all the same stengths while doing them better. Asik is a better defender, but I think Lopez is better on offense.

 

[BIG Q]

I guess I did not get my point across, sorry. I don't want Asik. Not for what he will cost in terms of salary and what Houston would want in return for him. They will not send him to a playoff Team in the West unless they are fleecing them. He most likely stays a Rocket just based on his poison pill contract. Portland should only be looking to strengthen their bench as I outlined in the previous post.

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

But Nate, where is our weakness and where are our strengths? I'd gladly trade marginal offense for better defense.

To the people that think Asik is not better than Lopez on Defense, that's laughable.

BTW, this is a moot point since Daryl Morey wants a lot in return, I.E. prob CJ, which will/should never happen.

 

[Natebishop3]

I guess I did not get my point across, sorry. I don't want Asik. Not for what he will cost in terms of salary and what Houston would want in return for him. They will not send him to a playoff Team in the West unless they are fleecing them. He most likely stays a Rocket just based on his poison pill contract. Portland should only be looking to strengthen their bench as I outlined in the previous post.

How do you strengthen the bench though?

 

[TBpup]

First of all, it's Fropez.

After that, he is more of a thread on offense while not being quite a mobile on the perimeter. I'll take that because the Blazer wings are doing a good job of chasing the opponents off the 3-point like to the big Rolo.

Last night when the Thunder tried to double off of Fropez onto Aldridge, he made them pay with a massive (for him) 1st quarter. He isn't going to light up the stat sheet but he is doing a lot of little things like boxing out so teammates pick up rebounds or screening off the shotblocker as the guards attack the rim.

Neither of those things hits the stat sheets for him but it is very noticeable.

 

[ponderguy]

You are underselling Lopez on offense. I do not think Asik brings all the same stengths while doing them better. Asik is a better defender, but I think Lopez is better on offense.

Lopez is absolutely the better offensive player but I think it would be worth the upgrade on defense since Lopez is already the last option on offense as it is. When I said that i was only thinking about defense and should have clarified that.

 

[Natebishop3]

Lopez is absolutely the better offensive player but I think it would be worth the upgrade on defense since Lopez is already the last option on offense as it is. When I said that i was only thinking about defense and should have clarified that.

I don't think I'd say he's the last option. Some nights the Blazers will go to him early to establish the post. He has that nice little hook that doesn't look like it should go in, but does. It's really nice to have the option of using him on offense, ALSO he's a much better free throw shooter than Asik. Last season Asik was abysmal at the line. So much so that you couldn't even have him on the court in a late game situation. 56% from the stripe last season, while Lopez is shooting a very respectable 78% this season.

 

[ponderguy]

But Nate, where is our weakness and where are our strengths? I'd gladly trade marginal offense for better defense.

To the people that think Asik is not better than Lopez on Defense, that's laughable.

BTW, this is a moot point since Daryl Morey wants a lot in return, I.E. prob CJ, which will/should never happen.

I'd be fine with Lopez+CJ for Asik + one of our 2nd round picks back

 

[magnifier661]

First of all, it's Fropez.

After that, he is more of a thread on offense while not being quite a mobile on the perimeter. I'll take that because the Blazer wings are doing a good job of chasing the opponents off the 3-point like to the big Rolo.

Last night when the Thunder tried to double off of Fropez onto Aldridge, he made them pay with a massive (for him) 1st quarter. He isn't going to light up the stat sheet but he is doing a lot of little things like boxing out so teammates pick up rebounds or screening off the shotblocker as the guards attack the rim.

Neither of those things hits the stat sheets for him but it is very noticeable.

When you watch the actual game, the value of Lopez is astronomical! Seriously, when he's on the floor, this team just plays better on both ends of the floor. I can't pin point everything, but the game flow seems flawless at times.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'd be fine with Lopez+CJ for Asik + one of our 2nd round picks back

I don't want to trade CJ until we know what we've got. Trading him at this point would be rolling the dice in a big way.

 

[magnifier661]

I'd be fine with Lopez+CJ for Asik + one of our 2nd round picks back

WTF are you high?!?!?! That is terrible!!!!

 

[BIG Q]

How do you strengthen the bench though?

As I said;

We need to use any exceptions, cash and back end bench players we can to get key vets to back our starters and can be ready to step in in case of injury like Juwan Howard did a few years back.

Any player that can not contribute to this team (Crabbe, Claver, Barton) should be throw ins if a team is looking to shed salary. I am looking at vet exception type guys to bring in. I am not married to Freeland and would give up him and even Leonard to strengthen our bench for a grizzled vet that can help now. That is what can push this team into serious contender status, a stronger bench. No doubt our starters can run with any in the league. This season is extraordinarily unique. I would go all in to get that bench shored up. Anybody on the bench and any asset available should be on the table to improve the bench into a championship contending bench. Doing that is the hard part of course, but our GM has pulled off a couple of sweet deals in the off season costing us nothing. Hopefully he can do it before the trade deadline.

 

[magnifier661]

As I said;

We need to use any exceptions, cash and back end bench players we can to get key vets to back our starters and can be ready to step in in case of injury like Juwan Howard did a few years back.

Any player that can not contribute to this team (Crabbe, Claver, Barton) should be throw ins if a team is looking to shed salary. I am looking at vet exception type guys to bring in. I am not married to Freeland and would give up him and even Leonard to strengthen our bench for a grizzled vet that can help now. That is what can push this team into serious contender status, a stronger bench. No doubt our starters can run with any in the league. This season is extraordinarily unique. I would go all in to get that bench shored up. Anybody on the bench and any asset available should be on the table to improve the bench into a championship contending bench. Doing that is the hard part of course, but our GM has pulled off a couple of sweet deals in the off season costing us nothing. Hopefully he can do it before the trade deadline.

And in all honesty, there are plenty of seasoned vets for less than 3 mil. We can use Barton, Claver, hell even Leonard and that's all the money you need.

 

[BBert]

Fropez makes his teammates, and his team, better. It's not all in his personal stats.

If we could get Asik for a song, sure, but we can't, so we wont. No way Olshey busts up the good thing he has going with our starting five. The reserves are all available, or should be, for the right talent upgrade.

 

[ponderguy]

I don't want to trade CJ until we know what we've got. Trading him at this point would be rolling the dice in a big way.

It would be a gamble but I'd take the risk, if we wait until we know what we have and it's less than what it is now than we gain nothing. I am fine with the bench as is right now, I feel like CJ could be too much of the same thing when we already have Mo and Dame. The team is really clicking offensively and I don't think adding another volume shooter would be the best thing right now. CJ's summer league performance did not encourage me

 

[ponderguy]

Fropez makes his teammates, and his team, better. It's not all in his personal stats.

If we could get Asik for a song, sure, but we can't, so we wont. No way Olshey busts up the good thing he has going with our starting five. The reserves are all available, or should be, for the right talent upgrade.

Asik is a great team player, but he understands that he is a starter in this league, not a backup. to me it's not that different than when Dre came here and was on the bench and was making noise about wanting to start. Did that make him a bad team guy?

 

[ponderguy]

WTF are you high?!?!?! That is terrible!!!!

We've already seen the magic Olshey can pull with those second round picks, I'd be more than happy to get some back for next summer