OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting (2 Viewers)

[Shaboid]

I watch the same comedians you do. Don't be cajun about it.

Build a wall around Louisiana!

 

[yankeesince59]

Yep, and I responded that the entire forum does it, you included

Unbelievable....In post #7290 you made a blanket about a group of people and while you were at it you decided to lump me in with them (you "assumed) by claiming what I would say/do if certain things had or had not happened.

Can you or can you not prove what I would have said, yes or no? ...Of course you can't, hence "you can't prove a negative".

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Very early in this thread, I mentioned that my fiancee was scrubbed in with a surgeon and that the hospital was kind of keeping it under wraps. Now that its more ubiquitous, he has an article out in Allure about his experience.

https://www.allure.com/story/plastic-surgeon-covid19-experience

 

[Chris Craig]

I will have a cordial discussion with anyone that shows the mutual respect. When being called out by someone that is “exactly doing” what they are calling me out for, I will respond in kind.

I’m totally open for things to be civil. I’m not open to get verbal, unsubstantiated insults and expected not to return the favor.

I'm calling for it all to stop. There is no reason we can't be civil especially with our current situation taken into account. Glad you are able to have cordial conversation, I hope everyone else can too.

Enough of the bickering everyone. If it continues, I will lock this thread tighter than a drug mules ass.

ENOUGH

 

[Chris Craig]

Very early in this thread, I mentioned that my fiancee was scrubbed in with a surgeon and that the hospital was kind of keeping it under wraps. Now that its more ubiquitous, he has an article out in Allure about his experience.

https://www.allure.com/story/plastic-surgeon-covid19-experience

Thank you for the update. I hope she is well

 

[Chris Craig]

Unbelievable....In post #7290 you made a blanket about a group of people and while you were at it you decided to lump me in with them (you "assumed) by claiming what I would say/do if certain things had or had not happened.

Can you or can you not prove what I would have said, yes or no? ...Of course you can't, hence "you can't prove a negative".

ENOUGH

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Thank you for the update. I hope she is well

Unfortunately, she has been redeployed to a drive up testing center now that elective surgeries have slown to a grinding halt.

She is the one sticking up the swabs up the nose. Pretty nervous about exposure since she is on the front lines now.

 

[yankeesince59]

I did prove it. The shut down is temp for national security concerns. He had a travel ban with Europe last month. Was that too early or too late? We all know, with the multiple tweets, articles and such that the travel restrictions from China was screamed being xenophobic. In fact, it triggered the left so deeply, the lawmakers and government purposely encouraged their constituents to go out and ride the subways, enjoy the parades, etc.

So yeah, I think I nailed it dead on.

No, you didn't "nail" anything...you lumped me in with a group of people and "assumed" what I would say or claim...are you denying that?

 

[Chris Craig]

Unfortunately, she has been redeployed to a drive up testing center now that elective surgeries have slown to a grinding halt.

She is the one sticking up the swabs up the nose. Pretty nervous about exposure since she is on the front lines now.

Yeah, that would be very nerve-racking. My thoughts are with her.

 

[yankeesince59]

ENOUGH

Sorry CC...didn't see your post.

 

[Chris Craig]

Sorry CC...didn't see your post.

Well now you have

 

[magnifier661]

I'm calling for it all to stop. There is no reason we can't be civil especially with our current situation taken into account. Glad you are able to have cordial conversation, I hope everyone else can too.

Enough of the bickering everyone. If it continues, I will lock this thread tighter than a drug mules ass.

ENOUGH

Okay sounds good. I’ll just ignore negative generalizations and will try my best to not make the same negative generalizations.

 

[e_blazer]

Unfortunately, she has been redeployed to a drive up testing center now that elective surgeries have slown to a grinding halt.

She is the one sticking up the swabs up the nose. Pretty nervous about exposure since she is on the front lines now.

Just read that they approved a home test kit that they can send you, you swab your nose, put it in a vial of saline and mail it back. Hopefully, that gets people like her away from the risk of doing that.

 

[magnifier661]

https://apple.news/AaKnlMt7tSdeugukvLQH75A

Reasoning why getting a vaccine for a “SARS strain” will take much longer than an “influenza” strain.

 

[wizenheimer]

Trump is a big buffoon.... However, I completely disagree with your notion here.

Government is inept. Always has been & always will be. Government is not capable of curing these ills. The best (and really only way) to address these issues are at a local level.

I disagree with the "government is inept" stuff. In fact I think it's bunk and that government is getting blamed for the ills of bureaucracy. Social Security and Medicare have been operating extremely well for decades. Don't talk about the funding, that's another issue. But their mission has been to deliver targeted services and they've done that well. Or think about electrical grids like the BPA or TVA

the US DOT worked very well for decades too. The interstate highway system was copied by just about every industrialized world. Again, funding became an issue, but that's not the fault of the DOT. We have let our infrastructure degrade to a shameful level, but that's the fault of corrupt and divided politics coupled with a lazy and ignorant electorate. The Army Corps of Engineers have been very well run. And by the way, the standard can't be perfection in a real world

but getting back to conflating government with bureaucracy, think about this: have you ever had any issues dealing with the bureaucracies of Comcast, or AT&T, or Apple, or Verizon or Sony? Ever had issues enforcing warranties on cars or electronics? Ever had problems with PGE or PP&L? Private sector bureaucracies are every bit as "inept" as public sector bureaucracies, so again, blaming government for bureaucratic sins is assigning blame to the wrong place

and of course, when we keep putting people in charge who hate government and want to destroy it, we're going to get the kind of results we've had over the last 20 years

as far as the local level government, there are simply some things that have scales too big for local governments to handle. Although I'd be just find with the 3 left coast states seceding and forming their own 'local' government. Bring along Nevada cause we'd need somebody to make book; BC and Alaska can join too if they want

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[magnifier661]

I disagree with the "government is inept" stuff. In fact I think it's bunk and that government is getting blamed for the ills of bureaucracy. Social Security and Medicare have been operating extremely well for decades. Don't talk about the funding, that's another issue. But their mission has been to deliver targeted services and they've done that well. Or think about electrical grids like the BPA or TVA

the US DOT worked very well for decades too. The interstate highway system was copied by just about every industrialized world. Again, funding became an issue, but that's not the fault of the DOT. We have let out infrastructure degrade to a shameful level, but that's the fault of corrupt and divided politics coupled with a lazy and ignorant electorate. The Army Corps of Engineers have been very well run. And by the way, the standard can't be perfection in a real world

but getting back to conflating government with bureaucracy, think about this: have you ever had any issues dealing with the bureaucracies of Comcast, or AT&T, or Apple, or Verizon or Sony? Ever had issues enforcing warranties on cars or electronics? Ever had problems with PGE or PP&L? Private sector bureaucracies are every bit as "inept" as public sector bureaucracies, so again, blaming government for bureaucratic sins is assigning blame to the wrong place

and of course, when we keep putting people in charge who hate government and want to destroy it, we're going to get the kind of results we've had over the last 20 years

as far as the local level government, there are simply some things that have scales too big for local governments to handle. Although I'd be just find with the 3 left coast states seceding and forming their own 'local' government. Bring along Nevada cause we'd need somebody to make book; BC and Alaska can join too if they want

I think having a level of pessimism against the government, especially at the federal level. I think that’s healthy.

I also agree that citizens will get the best “care, focus, whatever” at the local level.

 

[Chris Craig]

I think having a level of pessimism against the government, especially at the federal level. I think that’s healthy.

I also agree that citizens will get the best “care, focus, whatever” at the local level.

I don't totally disagree with what you are saying, but both both the state and federal government need to play parts in this. Both, have a responsibility to it's people.

 

[magnifier661]

https://cnn.it/34Saj00

Looks like Congress has reached a deal.

I think the additional verbiage the Democrats put in is fair and much needed. Seems like this is further proof that bipartisan action is most optimal.

 

[magnifier661]

I don't totally disagree with what you are saying, but both both the state and federal government need to play parts in this. Both, have a responsibility to it's people.

Agreed. I would also add local as well (mayors and city council).

 

[Chris Craig]

Agreed. I would also add local as well (mayors and city council).

I think there needs to be a healthy amount of communication between the federal and state, and the state and local. That open communication and networking is how we beat this thing. It is also how we keep citizens properly informed and up to date so we can prevent or at least hinder panic.

 

[magnifier661]

I think there needs to be a healthy amount of communication between the federal and state, and the state and local. That open communication and networking is how we beat this thing. It is also how we keep citizens properly informed and up to date so we can prevent or at least hinder panic.

Agreed. My local mayor is Republican, but has worked very closely with Los Angeles and the State Government. That communication keeps our public up to date on what’s going on in our area. He’s giving daily updates and not going against the fray of the State or LA county’s policies.

 

[ABM]

Agreed. My local mayor is Republican, but has worked very closely with Los Angeles and the State Government. That communication keeps our public up to date on what’s going on in our area. He’s giving daily updates and not going against the fray of the State or LA county’s policies.

How well could you do on this test?

https://www.cityoflancasterca.org/home/showdocument?id=35163

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I disagree with the "government is inept" stuff. In fact I think it's bunk and that government is getting blamed for the ills of bureaucracy. Social Security and Medicare have been operating extremely well for decades. Don't talk about the funding, that's another issue. But their mission has been to deliver targeted services and they've done that well. Or think about electrical grids like the BPA or TVA

the US DOT worked very well for decades too. The interstate highway system was copied by just about every industrialized world. Again, funding became an issue, but that's not the fault of the DOT. We have let out infrastructure degrade to a shameful level, but that's the fault of corrupt and divided politics coupled with a lazy and ignorant electorate. The Army Corps of Engineers have been very well run. And by the way, the standard can't be perfection in a real world

but getting back to conflating government with bureaucracy, think about this: have you ever had any issues dealing with the bureaucracies of Comcast, or AT&T, or Apple, or Verizon or Sony? Ever had issues enforcing warranties on cars or electronics? Ever had problems with PGE or PP&L? Private sector bureaucracies are every bit as "inept" as public sector bureaucracies, so again, blaming government for bureaucratic sins is assigning blame to the wrong place

and of course, when we keep putting people in charge who hate government and want to destroy it, we're going to get the kind of results we've had over the last 20 years

as far as the local level government, there are simply some things that have scales too big for local governments to handle. Although I'd be just find with the 3 left coast states seceding and forming their own 'local' government. Bring along Nevada cause we'd need somebody to make book; BC and Alaska can join too if they want

So many government programs never even get results, they don't measure results, they don't communicate with each other.
https://www.heritage.org/welfare/commentary/government-social-programs-triumph-hope-over-evidence
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/07/can-government-play-moneyball/309389/

Here's a snippet from one of those :

With so little performance data, it’s impossible to say how many of the programs were effective. But you don’t have to be a Tea Party organizer to harbor skepticism. Since 1990, the federal government has put 11 large social programs, collectively costing taxpayers more than $10 billion a year, through randomized controlled trials, the gold standard of evaluation. Ten out of the 11—including Upward Bound and Job Corps—showed “weak or no positive effects” on their participants. This is not to say that all 10 programs deserve to be eliminated. But at a minimum, collecting rigorous evidence could help spur programs to improve over time.

One of the programs studied by the Task Force for Disadvantaged Youth that did collect meaningful performance data and was rated by a part assessment was the Even Start Family Literacy Program, a Department of Education project aimed at improving the literacy of low-income parents and their children. Unfortunately, the data showed that “children and parents … did not gain more than children and parents in the control group.” part rated the program “ineffective.”

Here's a look at some of what Clinton did:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ring-legacy-of-welfare-reform-20-years-later/

Not all of that is 'bad', but spending on the poor went up from welfare reform and yet didn't really decrease poverty.

There are a lot of really ineffective government programs that spend billions just to exist. That's a really bad ROI for our tax money.

https://theweek.com/articles/539569/5-government-programs-that-truly-squandertaxpayers-money

Prove to me that our tax dollars get spent efficiently by the government?

Your argument at least to me (and this could be me interpreting things incorrectly) is, well some government programs run well, especially with unlimited funding (hyperbole), so the government is fine.

 

[magnifier661]

How well could you do on this test?

https://www.cityoflancasterca.org/home/showdocument?id=35163

I took the test. Got 5 wrong.

 

[wizenheimer]

I think having a level of pessimism against the government, especially at the federal level. I think that’s healthy.

I also agree that citizens will get the best “care, focus, whatever” at the local level.

I wouldn't approach with pessimism as much as skepticism. Kind of, show me you can before I go further (although often you're already on the ride). But we do that with just about everything. I go into the local hardware store with a checklist of skeptical standards to be met, even when just buying a screwdriver. Although if I'm to the point of buying a screwdriver at a bar, I don't give a shit

anyway, as far as the local level: I have spent 40 years as a self-employed contractor, mostly carpentry and remodeling. Lots of new residential construction mixed in too, as well as many years doing both new and remodeling sub-contracting on dental offices. So then, that means I've spent 4o years dealing with State licensing requirements, in Oregon, Alaska, and Arizona. And all three have required me to have bonding and liability insurance...those are two separate things. And sometimes having to secure performance bonds. And that's 4 decades of dealing with building permits, building codes, and building inspectors. Let me tell ya, that's no picnic, and it has left me as unimpressed with local government as with bigger government

I just don't hate government, nor do I hold people who work for government in any lower esteem than people in general.
*************************************************

speaking of gross and disgusting (somebody has to have been), let me tell you about the most gross and disgusting thing I've had to do a few times (dinner with the in-laws is another category): I've remodeled several dental offices. If you're older, you'll remember how dentists use to hang that little vacuum appliance in your mouth while they worked. It would suck out the drool, saliva, and blood. It would then pass through little plastic/rubber hoses into lines that ran inside the framing of walls and eventually go into some tank that would needed to be disposed of as toxic waste

anyway, those lines that ran thru the framing of walls inevitably had sags in every stud bay. And each one of those sags collected that old drool and blood; it pooled there. Well, I had to deal with those damn things several times and by some mystery, that slime was still in liquid form. 30-40 years of blood and drool in little disgusting ponds. It was more than enough to gag maggots. By the way, there was no guideline into how we were suppose dispose of that stuff. A hole in the system

 

[CupWizier]

https://cnn.it/34Saj00

Looks like Congress has reached a deal.

I think the additional verbiage the Democrats put in is fair and much needed. Seems like this is further proof that bipartisan action is most optimal.

Yes, it's a better deal now than the one that the republicans tried to shove through and trump openly blamed the dems for not just blindly passing it. This seems to be the norm in this administration. trump will talk bipartisan but his actions clearly show partisan politics. Maybe he should learn to just keep his mouth shut.

 

[wizenheimer]

S
Your argument at least to me (and this could be me interpreting things incorrectly) is, well some government programs run well, especially with unlimited funding (hyperbole), so the government is fine.

that's not what I'm saying. And there's a giant difference between "unlimited" funding and sufficient funding. For instane, social security could be solvent for the foreseeable future is the cap on taxes was lifted from 130K to 5 million

 

[magnifier661]

I wouldn't approach with pessimism as much as skepticism. Kind of, show me you can before I go further (although often you're already on the ride). But we do that with just about everything. I go into the local hardware store with a checklist of skeptical standards to be met, even when just buying a screwdriver. Although if I'm to the point of buying a screwdriver at a bar, I don't give a shit

anyway, as far as the local level: I have spent 40 years as a self-employed contractor, mostly carpentry and remodeling. Lots of new residential construction mixed in too, as well as many years doing both new and remodeling sub-contracting on dental offices. So then, that means I've spent 4o years dealing with State licensing requirements, in Oregon, Alaska, and Arizona. And all three have required me to have bonding and liability insurance...those are two separate things. And sometimes having to secure performance bonds. And that's 4 decades of dealing with building permits, building codes, and building inspectors. Let me tell ya, that's no picnic, and it has left me as unimpressed with local government as with bigger government

I just don't hate government, nor do I hold people who work for government in any lower esteem than people in general.
*************************************************

speaking of gross and disgusting (somebody has to have been), let me tell you about the most gross and disgusting thing I've had to do a few times (dinner with the in-laws is another category): I've remodeled several dental offices. If you're older, you'll remember how dentists use to hang that little vacuum appliance in your mouth while they worked. It would suck out the drool, saliva, and blood. It would then pass through little plastic/rubber hoses into lines that ran inside the framing of walls and eventually go into some tank that would needed to be disposed of as toxic waste

anyway, those lines that ran thru the framing of walls inevitably had sags in every stud bay. And each one of those sags collected that old drool and blood; it pooled there. Well, I had to deal with those damn things several times and by some mystery, that slime was still in liquid form. 30-40 years of blood and drool in little disgusting ponds. It was more than enough to gag maggots. By the way, there was no guideline into how we were suppose dispose of that stuff. A hole in the system

Ewww! Thanks for making me spit out my breakfast!

yeah, I deal with the local government a lot and it ain’t pretty. Just imagine how insane that is at the highest level!

 

[magnifier661]

Yes, it's a better deal now than the one that the republicans tried to shove through and trump openly blamed the dems for not just blindly passing it. This seems to be the norm in this administration. trump will talk bipartisan but his actions clearly show partisan politics. Maybe he should learn to just keep his mouth shut.

Except, if you actually read the article, the Democrats “Schumer” said they worked with the Administration.