OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting (1 Viewer)

[Phatguysrule]

Issue is policy based on the old definition of confering immunity, when evidence shows vaccinated contracting and spreading like mad.



It used to mean unlikely to catch and spread...

Increased immunity used to mean reduced likelihood of catching and getting sick (which also means less likely to spread). And it still does.

 

[noknobs]

Its not that hard.

Old-Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.

New-Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection from a specific disease.

Other than the utter horror of changing the definition of a word, what is your issue? That people shouldn't take something for protection from a disease? What a horrible idea!

Omicron: pandemic of the vaccinated?

It feels like some of you are under the assumption that it's only worse for people who are vaccinated? Omicron is also looking to be much more likely to evade "immunity" from prior infection, unlike the Beta or Delta variants. Maybe we should change the definition of "natural immunity".

 

[crandc]

The lengths people will go to in order to justify ignoring facts.
You can easily prevent getting sick and transmitting infection to others.
Or you can join 800,000 dead Americans and counting.
Ignoring facts does not make you an independent thinker.

 

[andalusian]

All these arguments are different hills to die on. First it was mask hill, later vaccine hill, now we are in dictionary corner.

I do not think I have seen so many people obsessed with so many hills since my basic training.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Confirmed Omicron cases jump by a third overnight: Experts warn it's just the tip of the iceberg and US will be hit with 'perfect storm' TRIPLE whammy of new variant, Delta AND flu

• Experts warn that Omicron, Delta and the flu may cause simultaneous outbreaks in the U.S. - causing a triple-pandemic this winter
• Some warn that in the wake of the Omicron variant, Americans who are not yet boostered should return to the early pandemic lifestyle of social distancing

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...ump-experts-warn-theyre-just-tip-iceberg.html

 

[BigGameDamian]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna8877

Fauci pushes for universal coronavirus vaccine

Researchers have been chasing so-called universal vaccines for years, with trials of long-lasting influenza vaccines first starting in 2019.

 

[Phatguysrule]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna8877

Fauci pushes for universal coronavirus vaccine

Researchers have been chasing so-called universal vaccines for years, with trials of long-lasting influenza vaccines first starting in 2019.

This is where it's at.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[HailBlazers]

Other than the utter horror of changing the definition of a word, what is your issue? That people shouldn't take something for protection from a disease? What a horrible idea!

Significant difference between something that reliably prevents infection/transmission versus something that simply provides protection from death/hospitalization. My issue is with mandates and policies that are based on the former when the later is statistically much closer to the truth in action.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Significant difference between something that reliably prevents infection/transmission versus something that simply provides protection from death/hospitalization. My issue is with mandates and policies that are based on the former when the later is statistically much closer to the truth in action.

plus that whole, close schools but not churches.
Close small business but leave large corporations open

the mandates are the issue. Not the science

if the science was followed, large corps like Walmart that have much more traffic, would have been told to close instead of small businesses.

the closures were all financially motivated. Had nothing to do with science…

 

[barfo]

the closures were all financially motivated. Had nothing to do with science…

That's a conspiracy theory. Also it's nonsense. Other than that, I agree.

barfo

 

[Orion Bailey]

That's a conspiracy theory. Also it's nonsense. Other than that, I agree.

barfo

What is your reasoning for it then?

you don't think those making decisions saw the huge financial impact on wall street if they closed large corps down?

What other possible reason would they have to shit down small businesses with only a few employees and dozens of customers a day, vs large corps like target and walmart who have dozens and dozens of employees per store with thousands of customers per day per store?


You say nonsense. So show me some sense then.

 

[barfo]

Significant difference between something that reliably prevents infection/transmission versus something that simply provides protection from death/hospitalization. My issue is with mandates and policies that are based on the former when the later is statistically much closer to the truth in action.

How would you alter the mandates and policies to fit your (incorrect) conception of how vaccines work?

barfo

 

[barfo]

What is your reasoning for it then?

you don't think those making decisions saw the huge financial impact on wall street if they closed large corps down?

What other possible reason would they have to shit down small businesses with only a few employees and dozens of customers a day, vs large corps like target and walmart who have dozens and dozens of employees per store with thousands of customers per day per store?


You say nonsense. So show me some sense then.

Grocery stores didn't get shut down, for obvious reasons. Target and Walmart sell groceries.

There were no 'small businesses only' shutdown mandates that I know of.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

plus that whole, close schools but not churches.
Close small business but leave large corporations open

the mandates are the issue. Not the science

if the science was followed, large corps like Walmart that have much more traffic, would have been told to close instead of small businesses.

the closures were all financially motivated. Had nothing to do with science…

The science shows that large, open buildings (like warehouses, basketball courts, and huge stores like Walmart) weren't significant vectors as long as distancing and masking guidelines were followed, because there is so much airflow that it's almost like being outside.

Smaller spaces like indoor restaurants were vectors because they don't have the luxury of the excess space to dillute the air patrons are breathing.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Grocery stores didn't get shut down, for obvious reasons. Target and Walmart sell groceries.

There were no 'small businesses only' shutdown mandates that I know of.

barfo

plenty of grocery only stores.
Of course there was no actual small businesses shut down, mandate. To put it in writing or words would have been discriminatory.

Were all dept stores forced to close? I think so but honestly dont recall.
End result was ma and pa stores struggle and closed, some permanently, while large. Orp stores were allowed to remain open.
Call it what you want.. it wasn't science dictating it.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The science shows that large, open buildings (like warehouses, basketball courts, and huge stores like Walmart) weren't significant vectors as long as distancing and masking guidelines were followed, because there is so much airflow that it's almost like being outside.

Smaller spaces like indoor restaurants were vectors because they don't have the luxury of the excess space to dillute the air patrons are breathing.

but the percentage of people going into these establishments offsets the space.

were restaurants, who also sell food, offered initial options?

I belwive the options to maintain space was only after many small businesses were forced to close.

These small businesses dont have the lines of customers rhat the large corps have.
Id much rather walk into a 15x15 room with five other people in it than stand in a line with 15 people next to each other in a larger building.

im pretty sure the 6’ and plexi shields came only after we started opening back up, but was not an option initially offered?

 

[barfo]

plenty of grocery only stores.

What does that mean? Are you claiming grocery-only stores were shut down? Link?

Of course there was no actual small businesses shut down, mandate. To put it in writing or words would have been discriminatory.

Right, somehow there was a mandate but it wasn't in writing or in words.

That sounds... silly.

End result was ma and pa stores struggle and closed, some permanently, while large. Orp stores were allowed to remain open.

Well, obviously bigger corporations are more likely to have the financial resources to withstand a shutdown.

Call it what you want.. it wasn't science dictating it.

Right, the government just decided to ruin the economy to... help Walmart and Target???

barfo

 

[Orion Bailey]

What does that mean? Are you claiming grocery-only stores were shut down? Link?



Right, somehow there was a mandate but it wasn't in writing or in words.

That sounds... silly.



Well, obviously bigger corporations are more likely to have the financial resources to withstand a shutdown.



Right, the government just decided to ruin the economy to... help Walmart and Target???

barfo

It was mentioned target and Walmart also sell groceries. Im saying there are plenty of grocery only stores that are also more local and not large corps. So people still had places to shop.
following?

yes. It was silly how the mandates were doled out.

So if large corps are more able to absorb the shut down, why weren't they shut down?


Yes because the politicians who lead us are invested in them.


None of your responses really say anything?

 

[Phatguysrule]

but the percentage of people going into these establishments offsets the space.

were restaurants, who also sell food, offered initial options?

I belwive the options to maintain space was only after many small businesses were forced to close.

These small businesses dont have the lines of customers rhat the large corps have.
Id much rather walk into a 15x15 room with five other people in it than stand in a line with 15 people next to each other in a larger building.

im pretty sure the 6’ and plexi shields came only after we started opening back up, but was not an option initially offered?

The 6ft and, and (slightly later) the plastic shields were there from the start in the places I went. There was a huge run on clear plastic of all types so some places couldn't get them installed right away.

But the stores I went to had taped put 6ft markers where lines would form, etc. That was pretty standard early on.

 

[Phatguysrule]

It was mentioned target and Walmart also sell groceries. Im saying there are plenty of grocery only stores that are also more local and not large corps. So people still had places to shop.
following?

yes. It was silly how the mandates were doled out.

So if large corps are more able to absorb the shut down, why weren't they shut down?


Yes because the politicians who lead us are invested in them.


None of your responses really say anything?

I can't remember any grocery stores being forced to shut down. Heck, even the convenience stores stayed open throughout.

 

[HailBlazers]

How would you alter the mandates and policies to fit your (correct) conception of how vaccines work?

Here's a easy one, masking young children on planes should not be mandated.

Southwest Airlines CEO Gary Kelly on Wednesday said “masks don’t add much” additional protection against Covid on planes because airborne pathogens are captured by the HEPA filtering system.

Gary Kelly made this statement during a hearing on airline oversight before the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee.

“The statistics, I recall, is that 99.97 percent of airborne pathogens are captured by the HEPA [high-efficiency particulate air] filtering system, and it’s turned over every two or three minutes,” Kelly said.

“I think the case is very strong that masks don’t add much, if anything, in the air cabin,” he said. “The environment is very safe, very high quality compared to any other indoor setting.”

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[noknobs]

Significant difference between something that reliably prevents infection/transmission versus something that simply provides protection from death/hospitalization. My issue is with mandates and policies that are based on the former when the later is statistically much closer to the truth in action.

Yeah so basically what I said. You have an issue with something that provides protection from death/hospitalization.

 

[HailBlazers]

Yeah so basically what I said. You have an issue with something that provides protection from death/hospitalization.

My issue is with taking away peoples jobs, mandating different testing/quarantine protcols, and discriminating based on a false premise.

 

[noknobs]

My issue is with taking away peoples jobs, mandating different testing/quarantine protcols, and discriminating based on a false premise.

We definitely agree on that. A lot of people can keep their jobs however if they simply get a free vaccine. I just don't understand why it's so problematic for so many people.. oh yeah, politics, TV and social media.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I can't remember any grocery stores being forced to shut down. Heck, even the convenience stores stayed open throughout.

right. I never said they did.
The point was made that walmart and target sell food so they stayed open.
Im saying there are plenty of grocery only stores for people to get food that stayed open.
Large corps like walmart and target could have absorbed the shut down much easier than small businesses.
Yet they were allowed to stay open because they sell food, was the assumed point of a rebuttal.

im saying thats a not a valid rebuttal based on the what i just said.

 

[Phatguysrule]

right. I never said they did.
The point was made that walmart and target sell food so they stayed open.
Im saying there are plenty of grocery only stores for people to get food that stayed open.
Large corps like walmart and target could have absorbed the shut down much easier than small businesses.
Yet they were allowed to stay open because they sell food, was the assumed point of a rebuttal.

im saying thats a not a valid rebuttal based on the what i just said.

But why shut them down when they weren't vectors and they are also very important places to buy food? My family ordered groceries from Walmart a lot during the shutdown... Still do.

 

[Orion Bailey]

But why shut them down when they weren't vectors and they are also very important places to buy food? My family ordered groceries from Walmart a lot during the shutdown... Still do.

allowing a store to deliver is different than closing them down.
I addressed the space factor you brought up earlier. Still bottle necks at the registers with many more people than small businesses.

were small businesses allowed to do takeout only innotially?


And if indoor spaces are okay wouldn't all outdoor spaces? But yet trump assemblies had massive surges outdoors? I would think outdoors would always be a better vector than any indoor warehouse?

Sorry. It just doesn't add up.
Money rules many many things in this world.

 

[THE HCP]

Fuck, here we go AGAIN! Everyday!