OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting (12 Viewers)

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Orion Bailey said:
Id say one stance would be having an issue with the mask, because it may be prolonging the inevitable and maybe it would be best in the long run to just let it run its course and let the planet achieve herd immunity.

There is no evidence that wearing masks will stop the spread... just prolong it... as reopening evidence has shown closing things didnt do anything but prolong the spikes.

So wear a mask and a year from now we may get herd immunity, or dont wear masks and reach it in six months.

so I guess the X factor is whats worse?

Having over capacitated ICU wards for 6 months,

or having most small businesses fold causing poverty and poor health related deaths?


I wear mine in every store I enter, But I still see many people without. Unless its 100% it really doesn't matter anyhow right? So if we arnt going to get everyone to comply, all we are doing is postponing the inevitable.



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Looks to me like closing things didn't do much in the deaths category. I would have thought there would be a decline in May as a result of social distancing and leveling of the positives?


I'm all about trying to plan for all outcomes, but at a point, if we stop life to plan for something that may not be accurate, we just wasted our lives......
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where exactly did you get your PHD and what department did you specialize in to be able to go against pretty much any doctor specializing in this pandemic saying wearing a mask is essential when out and about.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
The major cities are controlled by dems

Most of the violent cities and those with large number of COVID are democrat run
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ib9p3FT.jpg
 
Orion Bailey said:
Id say one stance would be having an issue with the mask, because it may be prolonging the inevitable and maybe it would be best in the long run to just let it run its course and let the planet achieve herd immunity.

There is no evidence that wearing masks will stop the spread... just prolong it... as reopening evidence has shown closing things didnt do anything but prolong the spikes.

So wear a mask and a year from now we may get herd immunity, or dont wear masks and reach it in six months.

so I guess the X factor is whats worse?
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Well, on the one hand you kill several million people that didn't have to die. On the other hand, you have to wear a mask.

It's a tough choice, all right.

I wear mine in every store I enter, But I still see many people without. Unless its 100% it really doesn't matter anyhow right? So if we arnt going to get everyone to comply, all we are doing is postponing the inevitable.
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That is not correct. The more people that wear masks, the lower the infection rate, but it won't go to zero anyway (it is possible to transmit the virus while masked, it is just less likely).

Looks to me like closing things didn't do much in the deaths category. I would have thought there would be a decline in May as a result of social distancing and leveling of the positives?
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Not everyone/everyplace closed or social distanced. And some who did quit too soon.

barfo
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
But I'm saying I will wear a mask when I'm out around people, I am simply saying that I really don't want to wear a mask and so therefore I am simply doing everything I can to avoid being around people that much so I don't have to.
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I never had a problem with this....I have a problem with mask denial and people who don't understand how this thing can spread....or that they may have it right now and be unaware they are putting it on surfaces or in the air …..on my walk yesterday I could smell cigarette smoke on a path I was on and nobody was visibly there....the smoke lingered....the virus can live 8 minutes in the air from several studies just like the cigarette smoke....we all need to change our views of how a pandemic spreads....I'm going to ask you this....have you been tested yet?
 
Minstrel said:
Sure are. Blame the Trump administration for killing off the police reform that the Obama administration had put in place. If that had continued reforming police departments, maybe this wouldn't have been a powder keg going off right now.
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Maybe means nothing. Maybe magical pixie fairies would come down from heaven and suck our dicks

Lay off everyone from shutdowns

Release criminals from Prison

Mandate stay at home orders for several months

And people will do this. But yeah, having more social workers out there would have done wonders. The violence happened in Democrat run cities. Cities. Not states, like you referred to above,, but the cities. They have been run by Dems for a long time.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Id say one stance would be having an issue with the mask, because it may be prolonging the inevitable and maybe it would be best in the long run to just let it run its course and let the planet achieve herd immunity.

There is no evidence that wearing masks will stop the spread... just prolong it... as reopening evidence has shown closing things didnt do anything but prolong the spikes.

So wear a mask and a year from now we may get herd immunity, or dont wear masks and reach it in six months.

so I guess the X factor is whats worse?

Having over capacitated ICU wards for 6 months,

or having most small businesses fold causing poverty and poor health related deaths?


I wear mine in every store I enter, But I still see many people without. Unless its 100% it really doesn't matter anyhow right? So if we arnt going to get everyone to comply, all we are doing is postponing the inevitable.



View attachment 32208




Looks to me like closing things didn't do much in the deaths category. I would have thought there would be a decline in May as a result of social distancing and leveling of the positives?


I'm all about trying to plan for all outcomes, but at a point, if we stop life to plan for something that may not be accurate, we just wasted our lives......
Click to expand...
 
CupWizier said:
where exactly did you get your PHD and what department did you specialize in to be able to go against pretty much any doctor specializing in this pandemic saying wearing a mask is essential when out and about.
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Do ypou forget history often? WHO said don't wear a mask. Then said do. Not its mixed reports about masks helping.

Look it up if you are unaware of them.

So Ill push your question back at you. where did you get yours to know that one report is accurate and another is not?
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
It is mandatory in public spaces afaik. I just don't go to public places so that seems like an easy solution for people who don't want to wear one. :dunno:
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It's not practiced in Oregon the majority of places I've seen......I see elderly wearing them and young folks not wearing them in a general sense....I'm going to find a new gas station since my old favorite seems to not require their staff to wear masks
 
wizenheimer said:
you mean the major cities with large minority populations; cities that have been dealing with the seemingly intractable problems of racism & poverty for a century? LOL...yeah, why can't the current leadership of those cities solve problems that have been in the making since before the civil war and are completely welded to, and inseparable from the larger national issues
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Not to get this off in a weird place, but I've spent the last month or so listening to a lot of different "voices", right, left, moderates, all over and it's really, really interesting to me how they all basically say the same things about the other "side". They all have their little bits of "facts" and statistics. They all have their own logic, and logical fallacies too. I've listened to it, and read it and researched it. It seems like many Democrats, think well "republicans are fascists, racists, they're encouraging civil-war, they aren't loyal to America, etc., etc., etc." Then I go to another site or channel and I hear a group of republicans basically saying, "Democrats are...", and it's exactly the same stuff that the last page just told me that republicans all are. It's dizzying.

It's crazy how splintered people are, and how much there seems to be an active push to wedge it further apart. My own confirmation bias kinda says well really everyone has crap that stinks and there is hypocrisy and garbage that comes out of both parties, but it's an interesting political climate we find ourselves in.
 
barfo said:
Well, on the one hand you kill several million people that didn't have to die. On the other hand, you have to wear a mask.

It's a tough choice, all right.



That is not correct. The more people that wear masks, the lower the infection rate, but it won't go to zero anyway (it is possible to transmit the virus while masked, it is just less likely).



Not everyone/everyplace closed or social distanced. And some who did quit too soon.

barfo
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You nailed it right there. and it isn't gonna change. So its moot.

Makes everything else irrelevant.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Do ypou forget history often? WHO said don't wear a mask. Then said do. Not its mixed reports about masks helping.

Look it up if you are unaware of them.

So Ill push your question back at you. where did you get yours to know that one report is accurate and another is not?
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Trump pulled funding from WHO ...remember that history? Citing double standards here is easy concerning our virus response....we've done one of the worst jobs on earth dealing with precautions....history will frown upon our lack of responsibility in face of the pandemic...that is a fact. reports don't do shit for the masses who don't read them
 
riverman said:
Trump pulled funding from WHO ...remember that history? Citing double standards here is easy concerning our virus response....we've done one of the worst jobs on earth dealing with precautions....history will frown upon our lack of responsibility in face of the pandemic...that is a fact. reports don't do shit for the masses who don't read them
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The same WHO who said Coronavirus doesn't transmit person to person and masks were useless?
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
The same WHO who said Coronavirus doesn't transmit person to person and masks were useless?
Click to expand...
yeah...that one....by the same guy that said some will get sniffles and it will be gone by April...and tell journalist to take off their masks and bask in his stupidity...the same guy who said it was fake news...who contradicted the countries leading pandemic expert for a bump in the stockmarket...the same guy who said we were better than the world at dealing with a pandemic...the same guy who closed down our checks and balances division in Beijing to save money and say fuck you Obama.....
 
Orion Bailey said:
You nailed it right there. and it isn't gonna change. So its moot.

Makes everything else irrelevant.
Click to expand...

No, that's not correct. If no one had social distanced, the death rate would be much higher than it is now.

This isn't a situation where we either all die, or no one dies. Some people are going to die from this. The question is how many. And there are steps that can be taken to minimize the numbers; alternatively there are things that we could do that would maximize the numbers. I suggest we do the former rather than the latter.

barfo
 
riverman said:
Trump pulled funding from WHO ...remember that history? Citing double standards here is easy concerning our virus response....we've done one of the worst jobs on earth dealing with precautions....history will frown upon our lack of responsibility in face of the pandemic...that is a fact. reports don't do shit for the masses who don't read them
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Timelines man.

Context matters. He THREATENED to pull funding on may 18th. WHO reports were back and forth before then. Maybe a reason to pull funding????


https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/politics/trump-world-health-organization-coronavirus/index.html

That is a fact. The reports were out before funds were pulled and the reports were conflicting.

FACT.....
 
barfo said:
No, that's not correct. If no one had social distanced, the death rate would be much higher than it is now.

This isn't a situation where we either all die, or no one dies. Some people are going to die from this. The question is how many.

barfo
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Anjd you know this how?


Positives are spiking again, but the death rate is not, based on the grid I posted, So how are you backing your rebuttal?
 
Orion Bailey said:
Anjd you know this how?


Positives are spiking again, but the death rate is not, based on the grid I posted, So how are you backing your rebuttal?
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Have you read the reports that infected people can be permanently disabled even if they survive this? And that even Rudy Gobert has not recovered 3 months after being diagnosed? It's too early to call this thing as going away...if we don't act on it, we're fucked.....I think your arguing for the sake of argument OB....there's nothing positive so far until we have an anti dote available
 
Orion Bailey said:
Positives are spiking again, but the death rate is not, based on the grid I posted, So how are you backing your rebuttal?
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Positives spike before the death rate spikes. First you catch the virus, then maybe you die from it. Not the other way around.

barfo
 
Orion Bailey said:
Id say one stance would be having an issue with the mask, because it may be prolonging the inevitable and maybe it would be best in the long run to just let it run its course and let the planet achieve herd immunity.

There is no evidence that wearing masks will stop the spread... just prolong it... as reopening evidence has shown closing things didnt do anything but prolong the spikes.

So wear a mask and a year from now we may get herd immunity, or dont wear masks and reach it in six months.

so I guess the X factor is whats worse?

Having over capacitated ICU wards for 6 months,

or having most small businesses fold causing poverty and poor health related deaths?


I wear mine in every store I enter, But I still see many people without. Unless its 100% it really doesn't matter anyhow right? So if we arnt going to get everyone to comply, all we are doing is postponing the inevitable.



View attachment 32208




Looks to me like closing things didn't do much in the deaths category. I would have thought there would be a decline in May as a result of social distancing and leveling of the positives?


I'm all about trying to plan for all outcomes, but at a point, if we stop life to plan for something that may not be accurate, we just wasted our lives......
Click to expand...

I've seen similar thoughts expressed here and on Facebook. There are multiple problems with the logic of the argument that you're just delaying the inevitable. Delaying the inevitable is an excellent strategy in reducing overall deaths from the virus for several reasons:

1. It spreads cases out so that hospital beds, particularly ICUs, and medical equipment/personnel don't get overwhelmed. Herd immunity takes about 70% of the populace getting infected, so that's about 230 million people in the United States alone. A small percentage require hospitalization, I haven't been able to find an exact figure, but even 1% would equate to 2.3 million people needing to be hospitalized. Spreading that out over months instead of weeks means a lot fewer people die.
2. It allows time to develop vaccines, antibody treatments, etc. to reduce the number of people who die from infections. If an effective vaccine can be found, herd immunity can be achieved through that rather than having people get sick.
3. While most people get well, beyond those who die, the disease is proving to have long term impacts on health for a small percentage of the population. Some of these impacts may ruin lives for good.
4. We don't know if/how long recovery from an infection gives you immunity. In a worst case scenario, there may be no such thing as herd immunity for COVID-19 if there isn't a fairly long-term immunity.
 
barfo said:
Positives spike before the death rate spikes. First you catch the virus, then maybe you die from it. Not the other way around.

barfo
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This is absolutely true.

It is also true that more people have been infected than initially realized (and so many people are asymptomatic, and/or were not treated because their symptoms were mild and/or similar to the flu). Thus, add a much higher infection rate (aka a much bigger denominator) and the death rate is considerably lower than first reports.

But, we are certainly going to see an increase in deaths with such a growth in the spread of the virus.
 
barfo said:
Positives spike before the death rate spikes. First you catch the virus, then maybe you die from it. Not the other way around.

barfo
Click to expand...

Exactly. Numbers of infections just began spiking in the past couple of weeks. Symptoms can take a while to get bad enough to force hospitalization and, once admitted, it can be a few days to several weeks before a patient with severe disease dies from it.
 
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