OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting (7 Viewers)

[yankeesince59]

Positives spike before the death rate spikes. First you catch the virus, then maybe you die from it. Not the other way around.

barfo

I'm amazed that someone actually had to have this pointed out to them...amazed, but not surprised.

 

[Chris Craig]

We don't even know if we can build an immunity for this virus. People who have had it and healed have got it again. There may be no immunity.

 

[Orion Bailey]

read my previous post

So deflecting to innacurate historical timelines.

Got it.

 

[yankeesince59]

...unreal.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Have you read the reports that infected people can be permanently disabled even if they survive this? And that even Rudy Gobert has not recovered 3 months after being diagnosed? It's too early to call this thing as going away...if we don't act on it, we're fucked.....I think your arguing for the sake of argument OB....there's nothing positive so far until we have an anti dote available

Ive read tons of reports.

I think the difference between you and I is I see almost all reports as flawed at the moment. You see some of them as flawed, unless they match your opinion, then they are facts without flaws.

The FACTS are WHO put out contradicting reports both in March and in April that led to much confusion on how this spreads and what we should do to try to stop it.

I'm not gonna Blame the president for that. He is much to blame for, but i'm going to stick with trying to keep it real.

You can blame Trump for everything you want and ignore timelines if you like. I care to stick to the facts.


Next month if they say wearing a mask may amplify respiratory ailments and could be harmful to those at risk.... Ill remember to blindly blame Trump for that too instead of just sticking to the facts that reports varied, creating confusion and there arent really any facts yet anyhow.

 

[riverman]

So deflecting to innacurate historical timelines.

Got it.

I'm not biting on your bait...….or deflecting …. There's a pattern to your engagement with my views that I find little context from....that's on me. We disagree about the timeline and possible repercussions moving forward from this thing....you do like to argue ...I think you'd admit that..I won't try to convince you I'm right

 

[Orion Bailey]

Positives spike before the death rate spikes. First you catch the virus, then maybe you die from it. Not the other way around.

barfo

Right. But its a 2 week incubation and some who have died only contracted it days earlier. the spikes have been being reported since the protests started 2 weeks ago. Where are the death spikes as a result?

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'm not biting on your bait...….or deflecting ….how about just weighing in without worrying about my opinions. I really don't need agreement OB. You do you

So, do the opposite of what you did with Tortured?

You are sending me mixed messages. I'm only responding to you basically how you responded to Tortured. But I got it. Do as I say, not as I do.

You do you.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I've seen similar thoughts expressed here and on Facebook. There are multiple problems with the logic of the argument that you're just delaying the inevitable. Delaying the inevitable is an excellent strategy in reducing overall deaths from the virus for several reasons:

1. It spreads cases out so that hospital beds, particularly ICUs, and medical equipment/personnel don't get overwhelmed. Herd immunity takes about 70% of the populace getting infected, so that's about 230 million people in the United States alone. A small percentage require hospitalization, I haven't been able to find an exact figure, but even 1% would equate to 2.3 million people needing to be hospitalized. Spreading that out over months instead of weeks means a lot fewer people die.
2. It allows time to develop vaccines, antibody treatments, etc. to reduce the number of people who die from infections. If an effective vaccine can be found, herd immunity can be achieved through that rather than having people get sick.
3. While most people get well, beyond those who die, the disease is proving to have long term impacts on health for a small percentage of the population. Some of these impacts may ruin lives for good.
4. We don't know if/how long recovery from an infection gives you immunity. In a worst case scenario, there may be no such thing as herd immunity for COVID-19 if there isn't a fairly long-term immunity.

But, we did this for over two months and grid shows as we open back up, positives are spiking again. Sop how long do you want isolation? How long before you think it will run its course wihtout a vaccine if we keep things shut down, wear maks, and maintain social distancing?

6 month? a year?

Curious what amount of economical damage you think that might cause, if any?

 

[BigGameDamian]

Unreal!

 

[riverman]

So, do the opposite of what you did with Tortured?

You are sending me mixed messages. I'm only responding to you basically how you responded to Tortured. But I got it. Do as I say, not as I do.

You do you.

my relationship with Tortured is between us....you can just but out of it...and for the record I like both of you guys....these are opinions not ultimatums

 

[Chris Craig]

Right. But its a 2 week incubation and some who have died only contracted it days earlier. the spikes have been being reported since the protests started 2 weeks ago. Where are the death spikes as a result?

We will see a spike in death rates. It is inevitable with the rise in cases. There will be deaths.

I think even though we dont have a vaccine yet, hospitals through trial and error have figured out the most effective treatments for covid patients which his helping keep patients alive longer. But, there will be deaths.

 

[Orion Bailey]

my relationship with Tortured is between us....you can just but out of it...and for the record I like both of you guys....these are opinions not ultimatums

Right on, but then I would take it to DM if its between you too, no? Otherwise its a public forum where everyone comments on each others comments regardless of who they were commenting on.

And for the record, I like you too, but this isn't about like or dislike, its morals, opinions and how sometimes this forum will pig pile on anyone who doesn't line up exactly with some of the members' moral stances here, making it feel like an ultimatum... Line up with our beliefs, or forever be a punching bag on S2.


I'm sure @ABM can relate.

 

[Orion Bailey]

We will see a spike in death rates. It is inevitable with the rise in cases. There will be deaths.

I think even though we don't have a vaccine yet, hospitals through trial and error have figured out the most effective treatments for covid patients which his helping keep patients alive longer. But, there will be deaths.

See I have heard the opposite. I'm hearing the percent of deaths per positive is decreasing.

But again . What report to believe?

And my point is how some here will hang on certain reports as gospel, but dismiss other reports that don't align with their thinking. when ALL reporting has had its flaws and aren't certain... in my opinion anyhow.

But hey. Lets just firmly take a stand on any report that lines with our opinion, regardless of the flaws it might have.

 

[riverman]

Right on, but then I would take it to DM if its between you too, no? Otherwise its a public forum where everyone comments on each others comments regardless of who they were commenting on.

And for the record, I like you too, but this isn't about like or dislike, its morals, opinions and how sometimes this forum will pig pile on anyone who doesn't line up exactly with some of the members' moral stances here, making it feel like an ultimatum... Line up with our beliefs, or forever be a punching bag on S2.


I'm sure @ABM can relate.

I don't have a cult of followers to line up ….kind of wish I did...maybe a GoFundMe for riverman's fight club

 

[e_blazer]

But, we did this for over two months and grid shows as we open back up, positives are spiking again. Sop how long do you want isolation? How long before you think it will run its course wihtout a vaccine if we keep things shut down, wear maks, and maintain social distancing?

6 month? a year?

Curious what amount of economical damage you think that might cause, if any?

I don’t think it’s a matter of shutting things down again; rather I think it’s a case of getting people to be responsible for helping to keep infections down. Wear a mask when you’re going to be in a public place, maintain separation as much as possible, wash your hands. Is that really so hard? Yeah, it means having to modify stuff we like to do. Instead of going to a bar, get together for drinks in a friend’s backyard and be conscious of minimizing risk. Do takeout instead of dining at a restaurant. And so on.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I don’t think it’s a matter of shutting things down again; rather I think it’s a case of getting people to be responsible for helping to keep infections down. Wear a mask when you’re going to be in a public place, maintain separation as much as possible, wash your hands. Is that really so hard? Yeah, it means having to modify stuff we like to do. Instead of going to a bar, get together for drinks in a friend’s backyard and be conscious of minimizing risk. Do takeout instead of dining at a restaurant. And so on.

And I'm saying I bolded your flaw in my opinion. If the last two months have taught us anything, its very divisive as to what people think will work or not. And I do not believe for half a second you are going to get 100% of Americans to agree and then conform.

So now what do we do? Extend everything for the forseable future until a vaccine is created? That could be a year or more away.



Soo many threads on S2 of people doing the wrong/stupid thing, and yet so many here think that " If everyone just does the right thing..."

When the "right" thing is not a universal agreement, there will not be a universal movement.




I suppose I don't have as much confidence in people... but hey, cant blame me can ya?

 

[riverman]

And I'm saying I bolded your flaw in my opinion. If the last two months have taught us anything, its very divisive as to what people think will work or not. And I do not believe for half a second you are going to get 100% of Americans to agree and then conform.

So now what do we do? Extend everything for the forseable future until a vaccine is created? That could be a year or more away.



Soo many threads on S2 of people doing the wrong/stupid thing, and yet so many here think that " If everyone just does the right thing..."

When the "right" thing is not a universal agreement, there will not be a universal movement.




I suppose I don't have as much confidence in people... but hey, cant blame me can ya?

See the places in the world where they had the most success limiting the spread and do that....New Zealand, Denmark, Taiwan...….there are some really simple practices that worked...all of which people here are balking at accepting...scientific method works..those countries currently have banned travel from the US I believe and rightfully so. It's tough for a lot of people here to realize they are being careless and impatient for the wrong reasons

 

[Orion Bailey]

See the places in the world where they had the most success limiting the spread and do that....New Zealand, Denmark, Taiwan...….there are some really simple practices that worked...all of which people here are balking at accepting...scientific method works

I don't disagree, but what i'm saying is it isn't gonna happen. We have too many stupid inbred Americans stuck in their ignorant, pig headed ways. I say let everything open up. Those who believe or have concerns will do the right thing and protect themselves and those who don't will be filtered out of society.

Then we can get back to moving forward with dealing with other things like systemic racism, economical disparities, etc.

 

[Minstrel]

Maybe means nothing. Maybe magical pixie fairies would come down from heaven and suck our dicks

I guess when the sequence of events isn't on your side, default to talk of magical pixies sucking your dick. Of course everything that didn't happen is a "maybe," but purposefully killing off the change that the protests are now demanding is a pretty direct link. Just like Trump killing off the pandemic prevention team might have negatively affected our readiness for a pandemic.

If you don't like statements with "might" in it, we can rephrase it as: Trump purposefully killed off programs in such a way as to massively increase our risk exposure in several ways. In the bro-speak you might find easier to follow: he intentionally broke the condom and then got herpes. One "might" have led to the other.

 

[Chris Craig]

See I have heard the opposite. I'm hearing the percent of deaths per positive is decreasing.

But again . What report to believe?

And my point is how some here will hang on certain reports as gospel, but dismiss other reports that don't align with their thinking. when ALL reporting has had its flaws and aren't certain... in my opinion anyhow.

But hey. Lets just firmly take a stand on any report that lines with our opinion, regardless of the flaws it might have.

It's not even about reports. Yeah I am sure there are conflicting reports saying the death rates are either going to rise or fall. They are all conjecture and all carry different motives I am sure.

But, I am looking at the numbers. It's up to 10,000 people a day in Florida. Some of those people will die. It is the nature of disease.

There are a few reasons though the death rate may be different this time around. The affected are younger....more 20's -30's rather than the older population. The younger people are able to fight it off better, hence less deaths

Also, as I said above, hospitals have found better ways to treat it, even though we have yet to find a workable vaccine.

I think it is irresponsible to say fuck it, let's just let everyone get it and hope for a herd immunity that we are unsure exists.

I am not going to just purposely allow my son to get this virus (though it has had little affect in some kids, it has caused an inflammatory disease in others that attacks their Organs) and risk his death.

My family and I have worn our masks and been aware of our surroundings, limiting the the things we touch, wearing gloves for the most part, washing our hands when we get home, and it has worked thus far. My family has not gotten sick. So, it works and I will continue to do it.

 

[jonnyboy]

Unreal!

Over $3000 for people with private insurance. I wonder which politicians have their fingers in that pie.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Over $3000 for people with private insurance. I wonder which politicians have their fingers in that pie.

That's not including the hospital bill.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Coronavirus: Worst is still to come on pandemic, WHO chief warns

 

[Chris Craig]

I don’t think it’s a matter of shutting things down again; rather I think it’s a case of getting people to be responsible for helping to keep infections down. Wear a mask when you’re going to be in a public place, maintain separation as much as possible, wash your hands. Is that really so hard? Yeah, it means having to modify stuff we like to do. Instead of going to a bar, get together for drinks in a friend’s backyard and be conscious of minimizing risk. Do takeout instead of dining at a restaurant. And so on.

This. We need to people to be responsible and not throw tantrums because an inconvenience or be spiteful because of politics. This isnt about Republicans or Democrats or liberals or conservatives. It's about being a conscientious human being and taking precautions and being aware of the people around you, your footprint, etc.

It is not that hard to wear a mask. It is not the end of the world to do. Not wearing one might be. It's not that hard to be mindful of space and others in it. We all have to do our part or this virus is going no where.

 

[riverman]

Timelines man.

Context matters. He THREATENED to pull funding on may 18th. WHO reports were back and forth before then. Maybe a reason to pull funding????


https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/politics/trump-world-health-organization-coronavirus/index.html

That is a fact. The reports were out before funds were pulled and the reports were conflicting.

FACT.....

the pandemic hadn't occurred when he shut down the CDC office established by Obama in Beijing as a waste of tax payer money that would be better spent building his fucking wall or when he defunded Doctors without Borders to make America great again and say fuck you shithole countries......yep...he did those things before we had a corona virus

 

[ehizzy3]

Wear a mask even if it’s not required

this isn’t rocket science

 

[yankeesince59]

With the new cases drastically spiking the number of deaths will also rise but not likely at the same rate as before. The fact that the number of deaths per case is notthe same as it was in say April, should not be a surprise. A lot of those people were in bad health to begin with and those tens of thousands who died back then certainly won't die for a second time so the numbers will be different.

But deaths are not the only consideration with this virus...Covid also can cause permanent and substantial lung damage, affecting the work force because of how many people are hospitalized, which in turn, also puts a strain on hospitals and hospital staffs,...not to mentioned that as long as these spikes go on, the more the virus will spread.



...it's been beaten to death but the fact is that most states reopened at least a month too early, period. We had our foot on the neck of this virus but took our foot off for the sake of the economy and in the name of some woefully perceived entitlement.

 

[Orion Bailey]

the pandemic hadn't occurred when he shut down the CDC office established by Obama in Beijing as a waste of tax payer money that would be better spent building his fucking wall or when he defunded Doctors without Borders to make America great again and say fuck you shithole countries......yep...he did those things before we had a corona virus

Can you please show me where Trump cut CDC funding? I'm not finding it. It was proposed is all i'm finding, which isn't a cut.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/false-claim-about-cdcs-global-anti-pandemic-work/

I cant find anything about any cuts being mad,e and if I remember correctly this was brought up about a month ago and was pointed out the cuts were only a proposal, butr was dismissed by the forum.

So i've searched and cant find a link on actual cuts. Care to share? Otherwise, I have to chalk that up to fake news. Sorry.

 

[Chris Craig]

Can you please show me where Trump cut CDC funding? I'm not finding it. It was proposed is all i'm finding, which isn't a cut.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/false-claim-about-cdcs-global-anti-pandemic-work/

I cant find anything about any cuts being mad,e and if I remember correctly this was brought up about a month ago and was pointed out the cuts were only a proposal, butr was dismissed by the forum.

So i've searched and cant find a link on actual cuts. Care to share? Otherwise, I have to chalk that up to fake news. Sorry.

Further cuts are part of Trumps 2021 budget proposal, but congress hasn't approved it yet

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/exc...ina-months-before-virus-outbreak-2020-03-22-0

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN21C3N5

He already did get rid of the CDC expert in China as well as 2/3 of the other staff 2 months before coronavirus hit the US