OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting (5 Viewers)

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TorturedBlazerFan said:
Is there not a vested political interest in saying 'republican' reopening policies are the problem too? I'm not really disagreeing with you btw, just saying there's a lot of political interest right now. This is a shame because a global pandemic, and all that's going, and people's safety, and health whether physical or mental shouldn't be in the hands of politicians and groups with money to gain (cause it goes beyond just politics), but it is.
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of course, but which of those two 'sides' are aligned with public health interests?

there is the opposite of the public interest in encouraging not wearing masks and ignoring social distancing. But one side is doing that
 
yankeesince59 said:
I think it's safe to say that there are no states who are OVER-REPORTING their cases.
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Curious why you think that? In states where the government thinks it should shut down, wouldn't that be a plausible way to get what they want?


I just love this... I think its safe to say ANY part of the government is being honest is a joke at this point.
 
wizenheimer said:
of course, but which of those two 'sides' are aligned with public health interests?

there is the opposite of the public interest in encouraging not wearing masks and ignoring social distancing. But one side is doing that
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If you really want my opinion, neither. Both of those sides are about getting our money and our votes and don't really care one-iota about public health. It's about shaming the other guys. I legit think if Trump came out tomorrow with a hard stance that people need to wear masks, we would immediately start seeing "studies" and some of the less savory news influencers say how wearing masks is actually bad for you. I may be crazy, but the politics in this country at this point means whatever that group said were gonna say the opposite because if we look like we are taking the same side we might inadvertently give them a political win and we can't have that. This is probably a really extreme example, but to me, it really feels like no one is looking out for "public health and safety" their all looking out for themselves.
 
Minstrel said:
Throngs of people, many without masks, pack Venice Beach over Memorial Day weekend

Californians cooped up for months amid stay-at-home orders during the coronavirus outbreak crowded beaches, parks and trails over the Memorial Day weekend, pushing the limits of social distancing.

In Los Angeles County, where more than 46,000 coronavirus infections have been reported and more than 2,100 COVID-19 deaths have been tallied, health officials worried the holiday weekend would be a big test.

Bike paths and beach parking lots reopened, joining trails, parks and golf courses as places to enjoy the sun-soaked weather.

Though some areas seemed problem-free, others were quickly overrun. Crowds packed the Venice Beach boardwalk, and very few people were seen wearing masks in images shared on social media.


Officials said a failure to follow rules, including the prohibition of sunbathing at Venice Beach and other public health violations, has been an ongoing problem.

“The issues this weekend validate our decision to keep our county parking lots at Venice Beach closed,” said Nicole Mooradian, L.A. County’s Department of Beaches and Harbors public information officer.

As restrictions aimed to stem the spread of COVID-19 are eased across California, authorities continue to warn that practices such as mask-wearing and social distancing are the best defense against a “second wave” of infections. The state is nearing 100,000 coronavirus infections and is approaching 4,000 related deaths.

Elsewhere in Southern California, crowds forced the closure of a popular hiking destination.

The Los Angeles County Department of Parks and Recreation closed Eaton Canyon in Pasadena on Sunday after throngs of hikers descended on the area.

Officials initially said the area would be shuttered for the remainder of the Memorial Day weekend “due to overwhelming crowds that were not following the COVID-19 public health requirements.” But on Tuesday, officials extended the order for the rest of the month.


Warm conditions this week are expected to lure more people outdoors, particularly to the shore.

During the three-day holiday, the Venice Beach boardwalk mirrored similar scenes in other beach towns, including Ocean City, Md., and Gulf Shores, Ala.

The Los Angeles Police Department did not have information about whether citations were issued in Venice. The Department of Beaches and Harbors doesn’t have the authority to write tickets.

It’s too early to tell whether beachgoers will see any changes after such a busy weekend, Mooradian said. For now, there have been no changes to the newly lifted restrictions.


“We’re still assessing what worked and what didn’t over the holiday weekend,” she said.​


So, yeah, it's nice that you found a time and a place to take a picture of no crowds, but that's not representative.
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That was right at the beginning of the riots/looting, so I stayed away. Lots of looting in Santa Monica/Venice. Oh, some mixed in protesting there as well.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Curious why you think that? In states where the government thinks it should shut down, wouldn't that be a plausible way to get what they want?


I just love this... I think its safe to say ANY part of the government is being honest is a joke at this point.
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This is the sad part. People don't run for office to be dirty or dishonest.
The problem i have is that there are really really good honest people doing their very best to bring out the best of this country.
But because some are bought off then they say all of them are dirty.
It's not the case. Go to any legislative session at the capitol and you can see good people working to get things done.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
If you really want my opinion, neither. Both of those sides are about getting our money and our votes and don't really care one-iota about public health. It's about shaming the other guys. I legit think if Trump came out tomorrow with a hard stance that people need to wear masks, we would immediately start seeing "studies" and some of the less savory news influencers say how wearing masks is actually bad for you. I may be crazy, but the politics in this country at this point means whatever that group said were gonna say the opposite because if we look like we are taking the same side we might inadvertently give them a political win and we can't have that. This is probably a really extreme example, but to me, it really feels like no one is looking out for "public health and safety" their all looking out for themselves.
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Except the left believes in science. Global warming and such.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
Oh, they warned to "self quarantine". They should have mandated people stay the fuck home.
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wut?

they can't even "mandate" that people wear masks in public.

I know you think that trashing the protests is a worthwhile pursuit; and that blaming the protests rather than reopening is aligned with your political views

but again, whether the protests are responsible for 10% of the surge or 33% doesn't really matter because it supports and proves the value of policies of social distancing and wearing masks. That's the takeaway we should be focused on. For damn certain, the protests were covid-stupid, but they were also inevitable. Maybe we should be blaming the part of the surges from protests on the police as much, or more than the protestors. If that cop hadn't killed George Floyd, and if those cops hadn't gunned down Breonna Taylor, the protests wouldn't have happened
 
kjironman1 said:
This is the sad part. People don't run for office to be dirty or dishonest.
The problem i have is that there are really really good honest people doing their very best to bring out the best of this country.
But because some are bought off then they say all of them are dirty.
It's not the case. Go to any legislative session at the capitol and you can see good people working to get things done.
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I don't disagree, but just like many things in life they are being drowned out by the loudmouth evil ones.

No different with cops. Not all cops are bad, but they are all under the gun right now until they fix their internal shit.

Politics should be the same. A universal disdain form the public for all until they fix their shit internally. Both parties, both sides.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
No they don't they largely believe in what scientists agree with them, same for the right. We all listen to science as long as it agrees with us, the left isn't any different.
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that's bunk....I'm part of the left and I do not modify my acceptance of science to fit my beliefs. Just the opposite, and I'm not unique on the left

the both-sides do it doesn't withstand any serious scrutiny. It's true in some things, but science isn't one of those things
 
wizenheimer said:
that's bunk....I'm part of the left and I do not modify my acceptance of science to fit my beliefs. Just the opposite, and I'm not unique on the left

the both-sides do it doesn't withstand any serious scrutiny. It's true in some things, but science isn't one of those things
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And you are the whole left party are you?

Lol.....

No one in the left does this? lol

Thats the epidome of head in sand. Sorry.
 
wizenheimer said:
that's bunk....I'm part of the left and I do not modify my acceptance of science to fit my beliefs. Just the opposite, and I'm not unique on the left

the both-sides do it doesn't withstand any serious scrutiny. It's true in some things, but science isn't one of those things
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I disagree, and here's why even using COVID as an example. Almost every single study that comes out saying something different is immediately met with that can't be true! by whichever side it's going against popular opinion for. Lots of studies out there and yes they vary in how well they are done and have variables and all of that, but if the first reaction from the other side is to get all defensive and say NOPE NOPE NOPE that is opposed to scientific study in that if some study comes out and you think it's fishy you should go gather more data, to try to prove it and it shouldn't just be about I want to prove them wrong. Republicans have been doing it too, but it has been on both sides. They both point to studies and say look this is what this "scientist" said here's my proof and then rather than listen and actually try to comprehend what data their given it's nope that can't be right cause that's not what this other study said, or I don't want to hear this one.
edit: I can't speak for individuals but in general terms, this happened repeatedly during the last few months. You can't say you believe in "science" if any data that is put forth that a side doesn't like, or is against popular opinion is put out there and you toss it aside because "feelings" and stuff, that isn't science. That's group think and is against scientific principles, if you think no one on the left does that then we can just agree to disagree.
 
Orion Bailey said:
And you are the whole left party are you?

Lol.....

No one in the left does this? lol

Thats the epidome of head in sand. Sorry.
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bullshit

no where did I say I was speaking for every single person on the left, and nowhere did I claim the the left was iniversally innocent. But I am saying that the left side of the political spectrum doesn't come close to the same dimension of science denial as the right, and especially that fucker trump. To argue otherwise as you seemingly are is not just "head-in-the-sand" thinking it's head-up-the-ass thinking. Don't throw down an insulting gauntlet like you just did and expect a mild response
 
wizenheimer said:
bullshit

no where did I say I was speaking for every single person on the left, and nowhere did I claim the the left was iniversally innocent. But I am saying that the left side of the political spectrum doesn't come close to the same dimension of science denial as the right, and especially that fucker trump. To argue otherwise as you seemingly are is not just "head-in-the-sand" thinking it's head-up-the-ass thinking. Don't throw down an insulting gauntlet like you just did and expect a mild response
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I didn't insult you.
 
wizenheimer said:
bullshit

no where did I say I was speaking for every single person on the left, and nowhere did I claim the the left was iniversally innocent. But I am saying that the left side of the political spectrum doesn't come close to the same dimension of science denial as the right, and especially that fucker trump. To argue otherwise as you seemingly are is not just "head-in-the-sand" thinking it's head-up-the-ass thinking. Don't throw down an insulting gauntlet like you just did and expect a mild response
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My bad I thought that was a reply to me.
 
wizenheimer said:
bullshit

no where did I say I was speaking for every single person on the left, and nowhere did I claim the the left was iniversally innocent. But I am saying that the left side of the political spectrum doesn't come close to the same dimension of science denial as the right, and especially that fucker trump. To argue otherwise as you seemingly are is not just "head-in-the-sand" thinking it's head-up-the-ass thinking. Don't throw down an insulting gauntlet like you just did and expect a mild response
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Bullshit. The quote you responded to said the left.

You responded with "I"

So don't do what you do and throw down insulting gauntlets and expect a mild response?

You are comical and are apparently oblivious to how abrasive you are on here as well at times.

Anyhow, Again the post you responded to was lefts and you said I and said bullshit. So in your own post you defined yourself as the left.


FYI, its insulting to start a post with bullshit. That is insulting another's opinion.

THAT'S head in sand denial. Sorry.


Maybe you should take a lesson from your own " insult book"... but then by your logic, its not an insult unless "Your" opinion of it is an insult, regardless of anyone else's right?


LOL.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I disagree, and here's why even using COVID as an example. Almost every single study that comes out saying something different is immediately met with that can't be true! by whichever side it's going against popular opinion for. Lots of studies out there and yes they vary in how well they are done and have variables and all of that, but if the first reaction from the other side is to get all defensive and say NOPE NOPE NOPE that is opposed to scientific study in that if some study comes out and you think it's fishy you should go gather more data, to try to prove it and it shouldn't just be about I want to prove them wrong. Republicans have been doing it too, but it has been on both sides. They both point to studies and say look this is what this "scientist" said here's my proof and then rather than listen and actually try to comprehend what data their given it's nope that can't be right cause that's not what this other study said, or I don't want to hear this one.
edit: I can't speak for individuals but in general terms, this happened repeatedly during the last few months. You can't say you believe in "science" if any data that is put forth that a side doesn't like, or is against popular opinion is put out there and you toss it aside because "feelings" and stuff, that isn't science. That's group think and is against scientific principles, if you think no one on the left does that then we can just agree to disagree.
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I disagree

what you seem to be pinning this on is the evolving science of Covid. When it first started, the experts were basing their models, predictions, and recommendations on past viruses and epidemics. Covid is new, and those models, predictions, and recommendations have evolved as the scientific data as accumulated.

I think a prime example of that is the ventilator issue. The initial predictions about ventilator use were way the hell off. And the potocols for intubation and changed dramatically as treatment results have been published

so as the pandemic evolves, perspectives evolve. That's not a matter of hypocrisy, that's the evolving nature of this particular pandemic.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
People are denying that the protests didn't cause this spike.
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in other news there are people denying that choking out a black man by a cop is a bad thing that should require him being fired.....Kyrie Irving is also denying the world is round....Trump is denying he fucked porn stars....pick your poison dude.....you're on the wrong side of history here....get woke! Most spikes are related to l0osening of restrictions and precautionary measures....blaming protests but not swimming pool parties is sort of politicizing the thing with just one agenda...don't see you blaming kicking it on the beach
 
Orion Bailey said:
Bullshit. The quote you responded to said the left.

You responded with "I"

So don't do what you do and throw down insulting gauntlets and expect a mild response?

You are comical and are apparently oblivious to how abrasive you are on here as well at times.

Anyhow, Again the post you responded to was lefts and you said I and said bullshit. So in your own post you defined yourself as the left.


FYI, its insulting to start a post with bullshit. That is insulting another's opinion.

THAT'S head in sand denial. Sorry.


Maybe you should take a lesson from your own " insult book"... but then by your logic, its not an insult unless "Your" opinion of it is an insult, regardless of anyone else's right?


LOL.
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I said bullshit to you insulting me by saying my head was in the sand. Don't lob the first grenade and claim innocence.
 
For everyone wondering why there doesn't seem to be much correlation between the protests and increases in COVID-19, the results of a recent study are interesting:

Using COVID-19 case counts from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and data from SafeGraph, a company that collects anonymous cellphone data to show the movement of populations, the researchers were able to look at not only how cases of COVID-19 were trending in various cities but also how the protests affected the behavior of those who did not participate.

The researchers actually found a relative increase in stay-at-home behaviors by those not attending protests after they began in a city, with people really starting to stay at home by the third day of the protests.

In the paper, the authors suggested that this increase in staying at home may have offset the decrease in social distancing observed by those participating in protests.

However, the authors said that while there was little effect on the spread of COVID-19 for counties as a whole, it’s possible that the protests caused an increase in the spread of COVID-19 among those who actually attended the protests.
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https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...protests-haven-t-led-covid-19-spikes-n1232045
 
wizenheimer said:
I disagree

what you seem to be pinning this on is the evolving science of Covid. When it first started, the experts were basing their models, predictions, and recommendations on past viruses and epidemics. Covid is new, and those models, predictions, and recommendations have evolved as the scientific data as accumulated.

I think a prime example of that is the ventilator issue. The initial predictions about ventilator use were way the hell off. And the potocols for intubation and changed dramatically as treatment results have been published

so as the pandemic evolves, perspectives evolve. That's not a matter of hypocrisy, that's the evolving nature of this particular pandemic.
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No, I'm not pinning it on the evolving nature of it. That is bound to happen as more is learned. I'm pinning it on that almost a daily basis a new "study" or some researcher comes out and says something and if it doesn't align with what the popular thought is of a certain group it is IMMEDIATELY rejected as *bs* by that group because it doesn't tell them what they wanted to hear, and from my POV I have seen it from both ends of the political spectrum.
Whether it's, "masks", "ventilators", "cures", "how dangerous it is", from my POV throwing out data, or research, or any of that before it's even really had time to sink in is anti-science. We could argue who agrees with "science" more the right or the led and sure I would probably buy that the right especially "Trump" and his followers are more apt to deny it, but my point is just that I personally see it both ways where "science" comes out that isn't popular and it's dismissed soooooo fast because it's not popular and people spend way more time trying to tell us why it's bad than figure out what data we can get from it.
 
wizenheimer said:
ok OB...you can piss off now

I said bullshit to you insulting me by saying my head was in the sand. Don't lob the first grenade and claim innocence.
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First,l I implied the mentality is head in the sand. I never said YOU have your head in the sand. You taking that personal now? lol.

Second, you have been abrahasive on here towards me much longer than this, so don't act like today you are all innocent. I only respond to you the way I do because you have conditioned me to do so.

Tortured gave his opinion and you said thats bunk. I said that's head in the sand, but you are all bent and insulted now? But saying his opiniion is bunk is not insulting?

Mana you have an interesting set of lines to follow......


And now I can piss off?

Fucking snowflakes are out today, but I must a missed the forecast. lol.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
No, I'm not pinning it on the evolving nature of it. That is bound to happen as more is learned. I'm pinning it on that almost a daily basis a new "study" or some researcher comes out and says something and if it doesn't align with what the popular thought is of a certain group it is IMMEDIATELY rejected as *bs* by that group because it doesn't tell them what they wanted to hear, and from my POV I have seen it from both ends of the political spectrum.
Whether it's, "masks", "ventilators", "cures", "how dangerous it is", from my POV throwing out data, or research, or any of that before it's even really had time to sink in is anti-science. We could argue who agrees with "science" more the right or the led and sure I would probably buy that the right especially "Trump" and his followers are more apt to deny it, but my point is just that I personally see it both ways where "science" comes out that isn't popular and it's dismissed soooooo fast because it's not popular and people spend way more time trying to tell us why it's bad than figure out what data we can get from it.
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TBF....nothing related to the virus and the BLM movement has anything to do with "popularity".....just needed to point that out...rather than analyze our varying opinions why not just put yours out there in clear print and stand by them? Group alignment is what we saw in the world's response to racial profiling by our police....
 
Orion Bailey said:
First,l I implied the mentality is head in the sand. I never said YOU have your head in the sand. You taking that personal now? lol.

Second, you have been abrahasive on here towards me much longer than this, so don't act like today you are all innocent. I only respond to you the way I do because you have conditioned me to do so.

Tortured gave his opinion and you said thats bunk. I said that's head in the sand, but you are all bent and insulted now? But saying his opiniion is bunk is not insulting?

Mana you have an interesting set of lines to follow......


And now I can piss off?

Fucking snowflakes are out today, but I must a missed the forecast. lol.
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Let's all maybe take it down a notch, including myself. No need to throw out generalized insults and get so heated over our opinions. We can talk and disagree on certain things, but I think we'd all agree that the current situation of COVID and the world is not what any of us really, "want". @wizenheimer I'll cool off too, if you feel insulted by my posts let me know and I'll go delete stuff.
 
riverman said:
TBF....nothing related to the virus and the BLM movement has anything to do with "popularity".....just needed to point that out...rather than analyze our varying opinions why not just put yours out there in clear print and stand by them? Group alignment is what we saw in the world's response to racial profiling by our police....
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I'm not sure what you're talking about... What have I said about BLM...?
 
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