OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting (2 Viewers)

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donkiez said:
Most nurses are basically the technician or operators of the medical world. You dont ask the operator how to fix a diesel engine and you dont ask the technician to develop a white paper. Its not their job, they really know nothing of those subjects but they are educated enough to "know the language" and appear smart to people who are not in that industry. What if my nurse was against something like kidney dialysis because of their "personal beliefs", if I needed kidney dialysis I would not want that nurse anywhere near me.

The death rate of nurses who contract covid is not the point of mandating their vaccintes for hospital staff either. Its the fact that they intimately deal with the most valunerable segment of the population and they have a duty to not be virus vectors for these people.

The obvious compromise here is that all the anti vax medical staff can all quit and form their own anti vax hospitals where the rest of us can all send the anti vax patients. Problem sovled.
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As mentioned in the post above, a vaxed healthcare worker can transmit the virus just as easily as unvaxed. That argument doesn't hold.
 
OSUBlazerfan said:
sure, but the poster you replied too was presumably asking someone in the forum "can antivaxxers...." or was she talking into the ether?
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I thought she was speaking in general. She mentioned no names. She did not say how do the antivaxers in this forum...she said how do antivaxers...so in general. It's a valid question.
 
OSUBlazerfan said:
We're having a discussion on a forum with other people, if she wasn't talking/asking someone that is on this forum, then I misinterpreted, but that's kinda weird
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People ask general questions on here all the time.
 
Chris Craig said:
"Who become infected."

A smaller, by a good degree of vaccinated people become infected than non vaccinated. Yes, there are breakthrough cases, but they are rare.
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Yea, you cannot assert that "by a smaller degree". Since vax people are asymptomatic, they will by definition not get tested. You cant have it both ways. Breakthrough "cases" are only present in those that have symptoms and get tested. Which of course in my opinion proves to the efficacy of the vax itself.
 
OSUBlazerfan said:
We're having a discussion on a forum with other people, if she wasn't talking/asking someone that is on this forum, then I misinterpreted, but that's kinda weird
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its a passive aggressive way of calling people out without directly calling someone out. It happens all the time on this board.
Its a preemptive, to then be able to spin and avoid responsibility of said statements.
 
OSUBlazerfan said:
Do you guys not do any research before posting?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1
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Lol " research".Oh yea nature.com the leading resource on Covid.

Time infected and total virus load are the factors that contribute to someone's ability to infect someone else.

1. A vaccinated person is much less likely to become infected.

2. A vaccinated person is contagious for a much shorter time and carries less total virus load.

Just because it's possible does not make it equal.
 
OSUBlazerfan said:
Yea, you cannot assert that "by a smaller degree". Since vax people are asymptomatic, they will by definition not get tested. You cant have it both ways. Breakthrough "cases" are only present in those that have symptoms and get tested. Which of course in my opinion proves to the efficacy of the vax itself.
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While it is possible for a vaxed person to spread covid, the vaccine reduces both asymptomatic and symptomatic infection by 79%. On the other end of the spectrum non vaccinated people are spreading the virus at alarming rates.
 
donkiez said:
Most nurses are basically the technician or operators of the medical world. You dont ask the operator how to fix a diesel engine and you dont ask the technician to develop a white paper. Its not their job, they really know nothing of those subjects but they are educated enough to "know the language" and appear smart to people who are not in that industry. What if my nurse was against something like kidney dialysis because of their "personal beliefs", if I needed kidney dialysis I would not want that nurse anywhere near me.

The death rate of nurses who contract covid is not the point of mandating their vaccintes for hospital staff either. Its the fact that they intimately deal with the most valunerable segment of the population and they have a duty to not be virus vectors for these people.

The obvious compromise here is that all the anti vax medical staff can all quit and form their own anti vax hospitals where the rest of us can all send the anti vax patients. Problem sovled.
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Too bad the vaccine doesn't prevent people from being a virus vector...
 
tester551 said:
Too bad the vaccine doesn't prevent people from being a virus vector...
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From what I’ve read, there are vaccines in development that may accomplish that. The ones currently in use were designed primarily to prevent serious illness. They’re injected and build a strong immune response that protects lungs and other internal organs, but they don’t do a great job of protecting the mucus membranes in the throat and nose. As a result, the virus can sometimes still get into those areas and start multiplying. It typically takes the body’s immune system a few days to stem the infection. Nasal spray vaccines are in development that could resolve this problem. In the meantime, the current vaccines are still good at reducing community spread and, you know, dying.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih...sal-covid-19-vaccine-effective-animal-studies
 
OSUBlazerfan said:
The claim was 1.6% death rate. I show a .004 death rate for 18-29 (and that's overrepresented like I explained).
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Yo might read that again. 1.6% is the claimed death rate for all ages catching covid and dying from it. Not from the vaccine. The claimed vaccine death rate is at worst .002% (also over represented, and mostly incredibly old and sick people). Which is half your claimed covid-19 death rate for 18-29.

From the CDC
More than 390 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 27, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,164 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine
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And these are just reports. These are not confirmed. And nearly all of these were people who were already old and sick.



So its a risk assessment that should come down to personal freedom. So then the argument will be made, that they work with others that have a higher death rate, which is true, however, just because you get vaccinated, doesn't mean you can't spread covid.

So again, here are the facts

1) They are making a personal risk assessment that they would rather not put something in their body that would potentially marginally help them (so would something like the flu vaccine, but we wont get into that argument)
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They are not making a personal risk assessment. They are putting the community at greater risk. That community should be able to choose if and where they want to allow that risk to exist. Each infected person typically infects multiple others. And every unvaccinated person is at least 2x more likely to be infected than each vaccinated person (in fact, there is data showing vaccinated people are 5x less likely to be infected).

2) They can infect others by not getting the vaccine, but they can just as easily infect them WITH the vaccine. So really, it only potentially helps there own PERSONAL outcome, not the outcomes of others.
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Again, this is math, but if the vaccinated are 5x less likely to catch covid then they are 25x less likely to spread covid-19 to another vaccinated person.

If our hospital load from covid was reduced by a factor of 25 this pandemic would be over. But it would also be over if it were reduced by a factor of 4, which are the most pessimistic estimates.

Then the argument will be made that it doesn't stay in a vax person's system as long. Sure, not two weeks, but still several days. And for a healthcare worker, at most they are taking 2-3 days off in a row, so therefore, they can easily infect even by being vaxed.

But once again, this is my rationale and logic, and I think its unbiased, but I will never convince others who don't want to hear it to begin with
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Actually, even if the virus stayed in the vaxed person's system for just as long the pandemic would still be over and covid-19 would cease being a threat. But since we can agree that the vaxed aren't contagious even half as long, you can double the benefits of vaccination that I listed above.

The math is so overwhelmingly against your stance... so, so frustrating.
 
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OSUBlazerfan said:
So not a "trust the science" kind of person?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1
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This isn't the same as your prior claim. Because a vaccinated person can infect others, doesn't mean one typically does. There is more data needed to determine that.

Once you look at that additional data it becomes a far more clear picture, as I described above.

This is why we pay epidemiologists to gather and examine many types of data from many sources.
 
donkiez said:
Most nurses are basically the technician or operators of the medical world. You dont ask the operator how to fix a diesel engine and you dont ask the technician to develop a white paper. Its not their job, they really know nothing of those subjects but they are educated enough to "know the language" and appear smart to people who are not in that industry. What if my nurse was against something like kidney dialysis because of their "personal beliefs", if I needed kidney dialysis I would not want that nurse anywhere near me.

The death rate of nurses who contract covid is not the point of mandating their vaccintes for hospital staff either. Its the fact that they intimately deal with the most valunerable segment of the population and they have a duty to not be virus vectors for these people.

The obvious compromise here is that all the anti vax medical staff can all quit and form their own anti vax hospitals where the rest of us can all send the anti vax patients. Problem sovled.
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Yep. I like this.
 
Phatguysrule said:
This isn't the same as your prior claim. Because a vaccinated person can infect others, doesn't mean one typically does. There is more data needed to determine that.

Once you look at that additional data it becomes a far more clear picture, as I described above.

This is why we pay epidemiologists to gather and examine many types of data from many sources.
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But if you only look at carefully cherry-picked data, you can draw different conclusions, especially if you don't understand what you are looking at.

And apparently, everyone's conclusions are to be taken as equally valid, no matter their depth of understanding.

barfo
 
calvin natt said:
Everything is just noise like fucking Covid molecules in your nose or even transmission and so on.

who. Is. Dying? Who is in the ICU?
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Exactly.
Surprise! It's the same people who are keeping community spread to epidemic proportions... hence the mandates.
 
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