Cronin's thoughts

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Scalma said:
the odds of them trading any of those guys are slim imo. Think their lotto picks will be the main assets, but I’m not sure this power forward is coming from another team, at least not before the deadline next season. I guess it depends on who becomes available. Siakam and Collins are two guys worth holding out for.
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Will be interesting to see how it all plays out in the off-season.
Man, if we could get Siakam....
 
PtldPlatypus said:
"the number one thing is we have to get more talent."

True enough. Unfortunately the trade deadline deals seemed to accomplish the opposite.
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We got more talent!!! We fans have to stop the homerism; Compare RoCo’s stats as a starting PF against the other teams. CJ hogged the ball for years, never played a lick of defense and his contract was a problem; Norm vs Hart = Hart all day long. And we have a large trade exception, some picks and more room. PS: a healthy Ingles off the bench!! A good thing.
 
We need more talent, but we also need more talent per dollar in salary. Hart is probably more valuable than CJ, even if he's not as good.

I'd like to think that's why Hart and maybe Winslow are valued by the Blazers--those guys haven't been big difference-makers in the NBA, let alone important players on good teams, so if they are supposed to be the type of core players we seek in terms of talent, and we give them big contracts as a result, then we're going to be a bad team for a long time.
 
BoomChakaLaka said:
We got more talent!!! We fans have to stop the homerism; Compare RoCo’s stats as a starting PF against the other teams. CJ hogged the ball for years, never played a lick of defense and his contract was a problem; Norm vs Hart = Hart all day long. And we have a large trade exception, some picks and more room. PS: a healthy Ingles off the bench!! A good thing.
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We got so much less talent and you are the one being a homer about this. Just look at what CJ is doing and has done throughout his career and you could easily say that the value we got back from all of the trades is as much as CJ and filler are worth. We got Josh Hart, Justise Winslow, a first that is a huge gamble and might very well be Milwaukee's 2025 FRP, a 2025 SRP, career role players that are completely washed, two prospects that look like scrubs and a TPE that you have to have draft assets to tag onto for it to have any value at all.

Norm vs Hart is an interesting argument. Hart is marginally the better defender and Norm is the better offensive weapon but not by a huge stretch but Norm and Hart weren't even close to being in the same trade. Obviously RoCo wasn't fitting in well with Chauncey but the idea that RoCo and Justise are even close to as good as each other is just not accurate. Justise can do a few things at a good level, for a backup on a decent team. RoCo is a very solid spot up shooter and one of the best defensive disruptors in the game. Larry Nance is on a 9M dollar contract next season and we know that he is fantastic in a lot of areas of the game a much much better version of Winslow, not that they were in the same trade either. Winslow is a guy making 4M a season and by no means is he underpaid.

The fact that you mention "Ingles off the bench!!" is a great example of just how dedicated to the narrative that these trades were good. Ingles' game had digressed so severely over the last two seasons and he just blew out his knee which should add to the problems he was already having with degraded mobility. Also he's an unrestricted free agent who should not make the full MLE and just about any team has a shot at, if he can still play at the NBA level.

Josh Hart was the only solid piece of talent we got in this trade. There's a chance we get lucky and Keon pans out to be a contributor, there's also a chance that we end up with a lottery pick in the upcoming draft. If those two maybe's happen the trade's are less laughable but still bad and trades being contingent on getting lucky are terrible trades.

Look around twitter and Reddit to fans that aren't big on any of the teams involved and see what the consensus is. We got fleeced.
 
I know these things

My season tickets aren’t getting renewed until I know who the GM is going forward.

The NO deal doesn’t happen if we are still over the cap….VERY credible source

We REALLY tried to get Ben Simmons

Also made inquiries on Siakam
 
Mediocre Man said:
I know these things

My season tickets aren’t getting renewed until I know who the GM is going forward.

The NO deal doesn’t happen if we are still over the cap….VERY credible source

We REALLY tried to get Ben Simmons

Also made inquiries on Siakam
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Why would the CJ deal not happen if we were in the tax? That move alone brings us under the lux tax. Do we really think NO does not do that deal on Wednesday morning and they are holding out the fact that we are in the tax over our head? Classic inexperienced move by Cronin. Now maybe we end up doing the deal Wednesday and fail to get any value from Covington and Powell. But we got nothing out of Covington anyways so whatever?
 
Mediocre Man said:
I know these things

My season tickets aren’t getting renewed until I know who the GM is going forward.

The NO deal doesn’t happen if we are still over the cap….VERY credible source

We REALLY tried to get Ben Simmons

Also made inquiries on Siakam
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The comment about the NO deal just confirms my belief that Cronin and/or the Seattle Mafia are hopeless and clueless. We had zero chance at Simmons without trading Dame, so I don't hole that against Cronin. I do wonder what we offered for Siakam.

I think your season ticket decision is very wise.
 
blazerkor said:
We got so much less talent and you are the one being a homer about this. Just look at what CJ is doing and has done throughout his career and you could easily say that the value we got back from all of the trades is as much as CJ and filler are worth. We got Josh Hart, Justise Winslow, a first that is a huge gamble and might very well be Milwaukee's 2025 FRP, a 2025 SRP, career role players that are completely washed, two prospects that look like scrubs and a TPE that you have to have draft assets to tag onto for it to have any value at all.

Norm vs Hart is an interesting argument. Hart is marginally the better defender and Norm is the better offensive weapon but not by a huge stretch but Norm and Hart weren't even close to being in the same trade. Obviously RoCo wasn't fitting in well with Chauncey but the idea that RoCo and Justise are even close to as good as each other is just not accurate. Justise can do a few things at a good level, for a backup on a decent team. RoCo is a very solid spot up shooter and one of the best defensive disruptors in the game. Larry Nance is on a 9M dollar contract next season and we know that he is fantastic in a lot of areas of the game a much much better version of Winslow, not that they were in the same trade either. Winslow is a guy making 4M a season and by no means is he underpaid.

The fact that you mention "Ingles off the bench!!" is a great example of just how dedicated to the narrative that these trades were good. Ingles' game had digressed so severely over the last two seasons and he just blew out his knee which should add to the problems he was already having with degraded mobility. Also he's an unrestricted free agent who should not make the full MLE and just about any team has a shot at, if he can still play at the NBA level.

Josh Hart was the only solid piece of talent we got in this trade. There's a chance we get lucky and Keon pans out to be a contributor, there's also a chance that we end up with a lottery pick in the upcoming draft. If those two maybe's happen the trade's are less laughable but still bad and trades being contingent on getting lucky are terrible trades.

Look around twitter and Reddit to fans that aren't big on any of the teams involved and see what the consensus is. We got fleeced.
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i suppose you are in the “trade Simons bandwagon” too?
:breakdance:
 
B-Roy said:
Why would the CJ deal not happen if we were in the tax? That move alone brings us under the lux tax. Do we really think NO does not do that deal on Wednesday morning and they are holding out the fact that we are in the tax over our head? Classic inexperienced move by Cronin. Now maybe we end up doing the deal Wednesday and fail to get any value from Covington and Powell. But we got nothing out of Covington anyways so whatever?
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So if you break it down as

Covington for Winslow and Bledsoe, that’s a solid deal

Powell for Johnson, a first round pick last year and a second is a solid deal also

ESPECIALLY when teams knew we were dealing from a weak position due to our former GM
 
Mediocre Man said:
So if you break it down as

Covington for Winslow and Bledsoe, that’s a solid deal

Powell for Johnson, a first round pick last year and a second is a solid deal also

ESPECIALLY when teams knew we were dealing from a weak position due to our former GM
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Good breakdown. Obviously, I wanted a first round pick for either, but knew it was unlikely. With covington, I basically wanted to swap him for someone with an extra year of control. Covington for Winslow does just that.
I liked Powell fine, but didn't want him as a SF, and with Ants emergence, that's still where he'd be. So moving for an expiring contract, a recent 1st round pick and a 2nd isn't bad value.
 
BoomChakaLaka said:
i suppose you are in the “trade Simons bandwagon” too?
:breakdance:
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I sure hope not. I hope him and Dame can really work together. I hope we get him signed to a long deal at a reasonable price. That being said, Dame doesn't have time to waste and if they aren't playing well together next season then I think you have to look at your personnel and make a tough decision on which one you trade at the deadline. We've seen two point guards who can't defend and dominate the ball and what that does to a team. That doesn't have to be the case here though, I'm open to seeing what they can do.
 
oldmangrouch said:
The comment about the NO deal just confirms my belief that Cronin and/or the Seattle Mafia are hopeless and clueless. We had zero chance at Simmons without trading Dame, so I don't hole that against Cronin. I do wonder what we offered for Siakam.

I think your season ticket decision is very wise.
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No idea how serious the Siakam talks got
 
Mediocre Man said:
So if you break it down as

Covington for Winslow and Bledsoe, that’s a solid deal

Powell for Johnson, a first round pick last year and a second is a solid deal also

ESPECIALLY when teams knew we were dealing from a weak position due to our former GM
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Some people may see this as snark, but it actually a serious comment.

When was the last time anybody described Dame as a former 1st rd pick? Seriously - when you refer to Johnson that way you are admiting he has done nothing since then worthy of note. A 2nd rd pick + zero = a 2nd rd pick. Powell was worth more than that.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Some people may see this as snark, but it actually a serious comment.

When was the last time anybody described Dame as a former 1st rd pick? Seriously - when you refer to Johnson that way you are admiting he has done nothing since then worthy of note. A 2nd rd pick + zero = a 2nd rd pick. Powell was worth more than that.
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Nobody would refer that way to Dame NOW. but it makes plenty of sense when they're a rookie.
A 2nd round pick plus zero isn't the entirety of the trade, so I don't know why you would try to present it that way.
 
RR7 said:
Nobody would refer that way to Dame NOW. but it makes plenty of sense when they're a rookie.
A 2nd round pick plus zero isn't the entirety of the trade, so I don't know why you would try to present it that way.
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I didn't present it that way. I was responding to a post that argued that Johnson and a 2nd rd pick was a good return for Powell. My response is that if you look at it that way, the only thing of value we got was the pick.

Obviously you can't really break a trade up the way he did...but for purpose of discussion I went along with his hypothetical. :dunno:
 
oldmangrouch said:
I didn't present it that way. I was responding to a post that argued that Johnson and a 2nd rd pick was a good return for Powell. My response is that if you look at it that way, the only thing of value we got was the pick.

Obviously you can't really break a trade up the way he did...but for purpose of discussion I went along with his hypothetical. :dunno:
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How does Johnson have zero value?
 
RR7 said:
How does Johnson have zero value?
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What value do you see in him?

There is a term you hear in baseball: tools goof. He has the physical tools to play the game, but doesn't have the skills to excel at a high level.
 
oldmangrouch said:
What value do you see in him?

There is a term you hear in baseball: tools goof. He has the physical tools to play the game, but doesn't have the skills to excel at a high level.
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The value of a raw 19 year old that has skills and needs development. Someone who 8 months ago was a first round draft pick. And it's possible our front office had a high grade on him during their scouting, saw something in him they liked, and were able to bring him in to see if our staff could develop him.
 
illmatic99 said:
he might have had value as a #21 pick. He has pretty close to zero value now.
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Agree to disagree. I don't think he has the same value as the pick did prior to the selection, but that doesn't mean half way through year 1 he has zero value. Of course, tons of people in here had basically written off Anfernee at this same juncture.
 
blazerkor said:
I sure hope not. I hope him and Dame can really work together. I hope we get him signed to a long deal at a reasonable price. That being said, Dame doesn't have time to waste and if they aren't playing well together next season then I think you have to look at your personnel and make a tough decision on which one you trade at the deadline. We've seen two point guards who can't defend and dominate the ball and what that does to a team. That doesn't have to be the case here though, I'm open to seeing what they can do.
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I still thing Ant is better suited for 2 guard along side Dame. Bring Hart off the bench if we still have the three guards. But I do believe that if an opportunity for a star front court player is there we would have to couple either Ant, Hart or Naz to a pick.
If the right guy is there you'd have to seriously consider it. We need more veteran star power in the front court.
 
illmatic99 said:
he might have had value as a #21 pick. He has pretty close to zero value now.
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Value is in the eye of the beholder. Different teams can have different evaluations. I think it's clear that WE valued him at the same level as a first round pick. But it doesn't mean we could not have gotten more elsewhere.
 
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B-Roy said:
Value is in the eye of the beholder. Different teams can have different evaluations. I think it's clear that WE valued him at the same level as a first round pick. But it doesn't mean we could not have gotten more elsewhere.
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Yeah, after hearing his thoughts on the types of players he wants to add for Billups, I was looking at Keon's scouting report from nbadraft.net,

A freakish athlete with great mental make up and competitive drive
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High level defender, with phenomenal instincts and reflexes to be disruptive at the next level
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Buys into the defensive assignment and gives great intensity and effort on defense, showing very quick lateral ability
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definitely sounds like the type of guy they would specifically target, even if he wasn't getting minutes in front of their other rookies.
 
RR7 said:
Yeah, after hearing his thoughts on the types of players he wants to add for Billups, I was looking at Keon's scouting report from nbadraft.net,

definitely sounds like the type of guy they would specifically target, even if he wasn't getting minutes in front of their other rookies.
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Check out what they wrote for Jabari.

Has the length and size to elevate above most defenders and knock down jumpers whenever he gets to his spot …. Active, relentless defender with disruptive wingspan and good lateral quickness … Shows solid instincts and anticipation and gets blocks and steals without gambling … Versatile defender … Can switch onto 1-5 as a solid on ball defender on the perimeter and also holds his own in the post … Shows good feel as a help defender as well … Averaging 1.5 steals per game and around a block per game … Plays with a high level of energy at all times … Intelligent decision maker … Really seems to have a solid understanding of the game and plays with a lot of poise and maturity for a freshman … Also gives a high level of consistency with his effort and focus …

Ability to defend the perimeter at his size is an added dimension missing from the other top bigs at the top of this draft … Emerging as potentially the top prospect in the top-heavy 2022 class as perhaps the safest floor combined with an intriguing ceiling …

 
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illmatic99 said:
Check out what they wrote for Jabari.

Has the length and size to elevate above most defenders and knock down jumpers whenever he gets to his spot …. Active, relentless defender with disruptive wingspan and good lateral quickness … Shows solid instincts and anticipation and gets blocks and steals without gambling … Versatile defender … Can switch onto 1-5 as a solid on ball defender on the perimeter and also holds his own in the post … Shows good feel as a help defender as well … Averaging 1.5 steals per game and around a block per game … Plays with a high level of energy at all times … Intelligent decision maker … Really seems to have a solid understanding of the game and plays with a lot of poise and maturity for a freshman … Also gives a high level of consistency with his effort and focus …

Ability to defend the perimeter at his size is an added dimension missing from the other top bigs at the top of this draft … Emerging as potentially the top prospect in the top-heavy 2022 class as perhaps the safest floor combined with an intriguing ceiling …
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Would love to land that #1 pick and grab him. Just what we need at the 4, and I think he can contribute right away to help more for the future, but be a solid addition on Dame's time line as well.
 
RR7 said:
Would love to land that #1 pick and grab him. Just what we need at the 4, and I think he can contribute right away to help more for the future, but be a solid addition on Dame's time line as well.
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i think Paolo's floor might be higher because of how well he can create from multiple places on the floor, but Jabari brings tantalizing shooting/defense at his size. if Smith figures out how to dribble, it's over. That's an All NBA type talent.
 
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