Dame all but demanding vet roster

[wizenheimer]

Maybe this will help;

I would also want Cronin to shut the fuck up as well. Everyone, anyone connected to the Portland Trailblazers. Not just Dame.There is a reason they put a cover on playbooks. There is a reason pitchers and catchers put their gloves over their mouths when talking out at the mound. "The first rule of Fight Club is there is no Fight Club." The analogies are everywhere. I'm not inventing this up. Seriously, enjoy the camping trip. I'd love to take my boys but they are training 5-6 days a week and made the choice that they want to be professional soccer players. They are making the sacrifices.

look, I know where you're coming from....Cronin needs to run a tight F.O. But what Dame says in loose-lipped interviews doesn't matter

and thanks, I'm looking forward to 10 days camping in NE Oregon.

 

[PCmor7]

look, I know where you're coming from....Cronin needs to run a tight F.O. But what Dame says in loose-lipped interviews doesn't matter

and thanks, I'm looking forward to 10 days camping in NE Oregon.

It's not even Dame being loose-lipped. Dame's being authentic. He's being asked leading questions but he's answering them genuinely in the context with which they were asked.

Then everyone else with an agenda or an opinion completely discards that context and runs with "Dame said this," or "CJ said that," or "I heard this from my cousin's plumber's neighbor." And we all bite. I've been guilty of it as much as anyone. Then I step back and assess the situation fully and I realize my initial reaction had a lot more emotion in it than it merited, and it really didn't fit with what I actually know about Dame's thoughts or the team's inner workings. Sometimes a rose is just a rose.

 

[PCmor7]

Dame being engaging is coming back to bite him and all of us because there are elements out there -- talking heads looking for views, fans wanting a big acquisition for their team, other teams that are looking to stir discontent -- that want to keep the earworm at work that Dame wants big moves or else he's out of Portland, that the Blazers can't do what he's "demanding," etc.

There's a lot of static on the talk shows and social media where Dame and the Blazers' future are concerned and people tend to hear somewhere in that either what they want or what they expect. It's hard to filter through all the garbage and get to the truth, especially when we're all part of it, throwing out our own opinions or analyses just because we can.

 

[BIG Q]

It's not even Dame being loose-lipped. Dame's being authentic. He's being asked leading questions but he's answering them genuinely in the context with which they were asked.

Then everyone else with an agenda or an opinion completely discards that context and runs with "Dame said this," or "CJ said that," or "I heard this from my cousin's plumber's neighbor." And we all bite. I've been guilty of it as much as anyone. Then I step back and assess the situation fully and I realize my initial reaction had a lot more emotion in it than it merited, and it really didn't fit with what I actually know about Dame's thoughts or the team's inner workings. Sometimes a rose is just a rose.

It is just smart not to answer those leading questions. Even CJ is giving his opinion now. After the roster is set, sure, discuss things that you can.

 

[BIG Q]

If you repeat a lie enough, does it become truth? Screamin A has been peddling this Dame crap since Dame signed his first extension trying to make his lie true. Screamin A would love to go back to the old days when there were only 8 teams, all in the big markets. No need to bother going to Portland, Denver or Minny. That is beneath him.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

He said that, if he were a betting man (which he says he’s not), he would bet that we’ve seen the last of Dame in a Blazers uniform. He says this in the context that he sets that:

1. Dame loves Portland.
2. He hasn’t spoken with Dame on this subject.
3. All Dame wants is a puncher’s chance.

He doesn’t know what players Portland may be able to get or what they will have to give up to get them. He doesn’t know whether Dame will think the resulting team has a chance to contend. He doesn’t know how much patience Dame has for the reload. In other words, he’s giving an opinion based on too many unknowns for it to have much value. At least, that’s the way I see it.

I certainly can hope you are spot on as far as this subject is concerned.
I’m with ya.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

You think every team in the league should be required to have two guys near the age of 40 on their roster who don't play?

I'm not saying there isn't value to it for some teams. What Dame said is that it should be a league mandiated rule. You don't think that is bizarre?

I think your being way to literal with his comment and extrapolating far to much additional meaning from it. It wasn't a legal filing where he precisely chose exact words and reviewed them before approval. It was a spur of the moment comment.

I take his comment as saying there is a lot of value in what veterans bring, its important for each team to have a couple. Perhaps there are two additional roster spots that are for vet minimum players with 10 or more years of experience. Perhaps they can be around 30 years old (not 40 as you mention for Haslem). Who knows the details, he wasn't specifying the precise CBA rules to implement it, he was making a general statement that veterans are important to every team.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

It’s not spinning. It’s called watching the clip and understanding context.

Wasn’t trying to ridicule you or your take. I happen to hope you are right.
I also know this clip is going to get thrown around for the next 2-3 months.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

So now all the tankers want to tank another year?

Only 1 more year?

 

[PCmor7]

It is just smart not to answer those leading questions. Even CJ is giving his opinion now. After the roster is set, sure, discuss things that you can.

It might not be completely wise to answer those, I agree, because there are people out there who're going to spin the answers in whatever way suits them.

Then again, answering those questions honestly is something that makes me respect Damian Lillard. It shows an awful lot of confidence for someone with his profile to put his actual self out there knowing people are going to misrepresent stuff he says or does for personal gain. He's basically brushing them off and saying, "I don't care what you do. I control me. I bet on me. I'm going to set an example that my truth always will overshadow your half-truths. Your narrative has no impact on my world."

He's a constant. He knows who he is and goes about what he does and outside stuff, at least to this point, really doesn't seem to faze him. We should all be that strong.

Now, where that leaves us is to take what we know about Damian Lillard and to trust that he's going to continue to follow that path and make reasonable decisions or if he suddenly deviates from it. We can't expect the latter, and, if it's the former, then we have to condition ourselves to not get so caught up in the garbage that's floating out there that is, actually, just garbage and really isn't playing into this in any significant way.

 

[blazerkor]

Dame is being Dame but the bottom line is that he says he wants to stay here in every interview. He says that him and Joe have talked about what needs to be done. He says if things don't get done then that's another conversation. I respect the guy for being real and I do not think it hurts Joe's leverage in negotiations because Joe needs to be willing to take this team in whatever direction is best for the team. Joe can have preferred options and do his best to get us there but if those options are blocked then he needs to go a different direction and if people think that blocking those options will get them a shot at Dame then Joe needs to tell then that they are mistaken.

 

[Whyachi]

i see Dame and Cronin's public statements as;
Q: what are the Blazers selling ??

TICKETS. JERSEYS. A sports entertainment product. They have 2 completely different jobs, but work for the same company.

Lillard ain't no ring chaser = content with Portland floating in the NBA ocean with no direction.

breaking news! Lillard doesn't have an appetite to be part of a young rebuilding tanker squad. --> Can't hide it, it's too Late for that, Blazers are grabbing top rookies because they are very young, lack big strong ballers, and have a head coach that makes poor in-game decisions.

While Portland usually got mauled by physically tougher teams, they did excel against the really bad opponents, which is a good sign moving forward.

next page: Lillard will have serious discussions with Cronin this summer if the team doesn't look good.

pass the mic to Cronin

"Super duper win now mode"

"We want to build a title contender with Dame."
(Bingo! Lillard IS that good at basketball, putting Dame on any squad makes it a fantastic fun franchise that might win a bunch of games)

Portland has a gem, with Lillard on board, anybody that the GM acquires will be drilled into the fanbase as players Portland needs to make a deep playoff run.

There are 3 paths the Blazers can take:

1) go nuts and build an actual contender, woohoo!
2) shed salary at the deadline and tank again
3) trade Dame and enter the forbidden cellar

I've said it before, I don't mind the 2nd route, Portland is getting fantastic rookies while pretending to be a good team. I just need to adjust my expectations, and quit listening to the local media bragging about awesome Blazer happenings.

If I, as a longtime Blazer fan, quits complaining about terrible defensive effort, bad coaching, and an incompetent GM that seems to enjoy making everything worse, then that road to new top draft choices will be far less bumpy.

 

[B-Roy]

LOL. I mean. This is the most direct prediction I've ever seen.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

LOL. I mean. This is the most direct prediction I've ever seen.

Nurkic isn’t wrong.
Dame gone?
Then Grant is iffy … sign then eventually trade? S&T? Keep as veteran and good player? I don’t like real players walking.
Nurkic traded.
Simons if Scoot drafted? Probably gone. Miller or Amen? Stay, probably, unless picks.
Nas? Meh, but shopped.

Who stays? Shaedon Sharpe. Bench guys? Some.

 

[Tince]

Copied from another post for continuity;

As to the evidence that Dame talking to people is undermining Portland's leverage, there is none and may never be any. Why? Because they will never discuss it, except for maybe Dame. But the Trailblazers Organization will not discuss the coulda, shoulda, woulda's. They will not say they traded for player X because the asking price for player Y was just too expensive. Why was player Y too expensive? It could be for a whole myriad of reasons. But the one thing that can be controlled is not giving the play book away before commencing discussions for player Y. Everyone wants the team to contend. And i'm sure you know this. I'm just shocked that anyone would even dispute that silence is golden when conducting sensitive negotiations that involve so many individuals. There is no gotcha or victory lap here. Brooklyn and Portland are not going to release details of what they have/have not discussed. I accept that. There is your answer. If you can't see it, so be it. I have no need, want or desire to further expound on something that seems so clear to me. Can you tell me why silence is not golden in player negotiations. I thought Cronin screwed up himself talking about the pick being available on draft night and also about bringing in vets for Dame. Just shut up and do it. Damn. Keep that shit internal. Did you notice the pullback he later did. Joe had to know he said too much. I'm done. I've explained my side. I'm not trying to convince you or others. I'm fine with knowing I would follow and prefer others to follow sound business principals. That is all.

Got it.

It would probably be better if you simply said "I don't like Dame talking about his desire for Portland to have a contending roster." vs "He is massively weakening the Blazers position in ALL NEGOTIATIONS. It is not even debatable" and "I am sure the league office does not appreciate this" "

Your original statements come off as fact, which should easily to prove. Instead, it sounds like those statements are simply you giving an educated guess based on your experience, with a lot of assumptions attached to it.

 

[Natebishop3]

Got it.

It would probably be better if you simply said "I don't like Dame talking about his desire for Portland to have a contending roster." vs "He is massively weakening the Blazers position in ALL NEGOTIATIONS. It is not even debatable" and "I am sure the league office does not appreciate this" "

Your original statements come off as fact, which should easily to prove. Instead, it sounds like those statements are simply you giving an educated guess based on your experience, with a lot of assumptions attached to it.

I actually really wanted Dame to speak up and put pressure on the team after the Pelicans series, but that was back when I still thought we could build around Dame.

But now that we might need to move on from Dame, maaaaaaaaaybe keep his mouth shut a bit?

 

[Tince]

I think your being way to literal with his comment and extrapolating far to much additional meaning from it. It wasn't a legal filing where he precisely chose exact words and reviewed them before approval. It was a spur of the moment comment.

I take his comment as saying there is a lot of value in what veterans bring, its important for each team to have a couple. Perhaps there are two additional roster spots that are for vet minimum players with 10 or more years of experience. Perhaps they can be around 30 years old (not 40 as you mention for Haslem). Who knows the details, he wasn't specifying the precise CBA rules to implement it, he was making a general statement that veterans are important to every team.

I don't know how literal he was being, none of us do.

I do know he was asked the question on what change he would make if he were the commish and he said he would make teams have two old old vets on their roster. Then he went on to talk about the value of it. Currently old old vets are allowed to be on rosters, but not required, so him just liking that it can happen, would be a change at all.

 

[Tince]

I actually really wanted Dame to speak up and put pressure on the team after the Pelicans series, but that was back when I still thought we could build around Dame.

But now that we might need to move on from Dame, maaaaaaaaaybe keep his mouth shut a bit?

I'm shocked you didn't like him not doing what you wanted and now he's doing what you wanted and you still don't like it.

Very much on brand!

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't know how literal he was being, none of us do.

I do know he was asked the question on what change he would make if he were the commish and he said he would make teams have two old old vets on their roster. Then he went on to talk about the value of it. Currently old old vets are allowed to be on rosters, but not required, so him just liking that it can happen, would be a change at all.

Biggest issue is that veterans cost more money these days, and the new CBA is making it hard to retain salary for the sake of retaining salary.

 

[Tince]

Biggest issue is that veterans cost more money these days, and the new CBA is making it hard to retain salary for the sake of retaining salary.

Correct... so going all young and trying to obtain, develop, and retain multiple young stars into their prime would be more difficult path than ever.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm shocked you didn't like him not doing what you wanted and now he's doing what you wanted and you still don't like it.

Very much on brand!

I wanted it at that point in time and space!

I also wanted to sleep with Britney Spears when we were both 20. Not so much now.

Is that on brand?

 

[Tince]

I wanted it at that point in time and space!

I also wanted to sleep with Britney Spears when we were both 20. Not so much now.

Is that on brand?

Yes, on brand. Consistently unhappy things in the past didn't work out and currently unhappy with the way things are going!

 

[Natebishop3]

Yes, on brand. Consistently unhappy things in the past didn't work out and currently unhappy with the way things are going!

Maybe Britney isn't a good comparison.... I'm not unhappy that I wouldn't want to sleep with her at this point. I just wouldn't want it.

Now, if we were talking about Gal Gadot or Blake Lively....

All that to say, it's not about being happy or unhappy. It's about whether it benefits me. Dame speaking up after the Pelican series would have benefitted me as a Blazer fan. It would have benefitted the team, but then again I think he talked with Paul after that series..... but nothing happened. Stotts was still here. CJ was still here. But Dame demanding a trade right now probably doesn't help his trade value, so that doesn't really benefit me.

 

[wizenheimer]

well, if any one thing is apparent...it's that S2 members love to argue. We'd argue with a possum

 

[Natebishop3]

well, if any one thing is apparent...it's that S2 members love to argue. We'd argue with a possum

Why does it have to be a possum? What is love? How do you know that I love to argue? I trust actions more than words.

 

[Tince]

Maybe Britney isn't a good comparison.... I'm not unhappy that I wouldn't want to sleep with her at this point. I just wouldn't want it.

Now, if we were talking about Gal Gadot or Blake Lively....

All that to say, it's not about being happy or unhappy. It's about whether it benefits me. Dame speaking up after the Pelican series would have benefitted me as a Blazer fan. It would have benefitted the team, but then again I think he talked with Paul after that series..... but nothing happened. Stotts was still here. CJ was still here. But Dame demanding a trade right now probably doesn't help his trade value, so that doesn't really benefit me.

Finally an example of you having good taste!

 

[Ed O]

Yes, on brand. Consistently unhappy things in the past didn't work out and currently unhappy with the way things are going!

Why on earth would any Blazers fan be happy about how the team has been managed the last decade or so?

We've only drafted two guys who have been starters for us (CJ in 2013 and Ant in 2018) in the last 10 drafts.

We've won, what, 22 playoff games in 12 years?

It's weird to call someone out for being unhappy that things in the past didn't work out and currently unhappy with the way things are going like it's a bad thing, given the shit show that we've been for a while, culminating with two "win now" teams that have utterly collapsed in the last two years.

 

[twobullz]

Why on earth would any Blazers fan be happy about how the team has been managed the last decade or so?

We've only drafted two guys who have been starters for us (CJ in 2013 and Ant in 2018) in the last 10 drafts.

We've won, what, 22 playoff games in 12 years?

It's weird to call someone out for being unhappy that things in the past didn't work out and currently unhappy with the way things are going like it's a bad thing, given the shit show that we've been for a while, culminating with two "win now" teams that have utterly collapsed in the last two years.

Aren't you in the trade Dame for draft pick and young players camp? You just say the Blazers are terrible at drafting, but want to trade a generational talent for draft picks?

 

[Tince]

Why on earth would any Blazers fan be happy about how the team has been managed the last decade or so?

We've only drafted two guys who have been starters for us (CJ in 2013 and Ant in 2018) in the last 10 drafts.

We've won, what, 22 playoff games in 12 years?

It's weird to call someone out for being unhappy that things in the past didn't work out and currently unhappy with the way things are going like it's a bad thing, given the shit show that we've been for a while, culminating with two "win now" teams that have utterly collapsed in the last two years.

If you go back and reread what I originally said, you'd see I was ribbing Nate at how he was pissing and moaning that Dame wasn't demanding the franchise do more 5 years ago and now that Dame is demanding it, he's pissing and moaning about it. Sure you can at least laugh at the irony in that.

I never said anything about people being happy with how the franchise has been managed for the last decade. At all. I've been very vocal with my displeasure with the amount of support we've put around Dame.

 

[Natebishop3]

If you go back and reread what I originally said, you'd see I was ribbing Nate at how he was pissing and moaning that Dame wasn't demanding the franchise do more 5 years ago and now that Dame is demanding it, he's pissing and moaning about it. Sure you can at least laugh at the irony in that.

I never said anything about people being happy with how the franchise has been managed for the last decade. At all. I've been very vocal with my displeasure with the amount of support we've put around Dame.

Hey wait…. I wasn’t pissing or moaning!