Dame all but demanding vet roster (2 Viewers)

[BIG Q]

Lavine, why? This team needs a rebounder. They don't even know what the fuck to look for! Can't score points if the ball is always in the opponents hands. I would rather management get their shit together. If Lavine or DeRozen are the targets, fuck them. If they can't win in Chicago just recycle them in Portland, right. Same with Siakam and OG in Toronto. They can't win in Toronto with out Leonard, so ship one to Portland. It will be all good. This will blow up in their faces, they will blame Billups, fire him and watch Dame ask out and who ever was brought in for the 3 will leave. I would rather see Collins brought in from ATL if he can rebound. Whatever.

 

[HansenYang]

Hearing they’ll settle. Just FYI

Settle in accepting a deal for #3 where the return is less than ideal?
or
Give up in trying to compete with Dame & settle on using the #3 and look to the future?

 

[B-Roy]

No real names. Lavine comes up a bit too much for my liking. All I hear is conversation. Nothing to take too seriously

Oh boy....

 

[Pinwheel1]

I would riot.

I think we all would. But just out of curiosity, besides everyone on Chicago, who do you consider mediocre? And who would you be ok with?

 

[illmatic99]

Hearing also that the team is concerned they’ll go “all in” just to lose Dame next off season

Wtf is this? Forcing a trade to "win now" and then bailing? Is this your take or is this actually what Dame thinks? He doesnt exactly have any opt out clause to create the kinda leverage you're intimating.

 

[illmatic99]

Oh boy....

Inmates running the asylum if we give up 3 for Lavine.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Wtf is this? Forcing a trade to "win now" and then bailing? Is this your take or is this actually what Dame thinks? He doesnt exactly have any opt out clause to create the kinda leverage you're intimating.

The fears I hear

 

[illmatic99]

The fears I hear

If he pulls this shit, it would tarnish anything and everything he built here. These fears are unfounded

 

[Pinwheel1]

The fears I hear

Another reason why a trade "like" Wagner and #6 works.
You legitimately try to get a player who can help next year, but who is young enough if Dame did ask to leave at any point can be part of a rebuild. (#6 would also be for the future)

 

[tykendo]

Dame is the real deal. Dame is all in on our city. Dame , a generational talent doesn't come along very often. I find it quite disturbing how some think trading Dame is no big deal, and the franchise would just move on to better things. It's the old, "don't know what you got, till it's gone" thing. Thing to not tread lightly on. That's a real thing. There's no way the Blazers would get equal , or better value , out of that kind of move. Because teams that make that deal are looking for the piece to add to their team , that , they feel , will put them over the top. And they're not sending key pieces back if they want to succeed . They will send back fodder to make the cap work, and potential end of the draft future 1st that won't help immediately , if at all.


Phoenix made that mistake, and they went backwards. Now they're scrambling to figure out a way to reorganize what they did. I think they will fail. They're potentially gonna cut CP 3. They sold their soul.


Clyde leaving didn't make the Blazers better. It made them also rans. Trader Bob went away from the draft totally, and actually got the team close. I'd like to see Joe bring in another All NBA talent, along with supporting moves, and see what happens with "real talent" around Dame. Because i know what Dame can do. And it's flat out amazing.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think we all would. But just out of curiosity, besides everyone on Chicago, who do you consider mediocre? And who would you be ok with?

Obviously OG... OG might be worse than mediocre. Or even Siakam because his contract situation concerns me and I'm not sure if he's good enough to really make a difference.

Bridges or Brown make the most sense to me because they're still young enough that they could potentially fit both timelines.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Obviously OG... OG might be worse than mediocre. Or even Siakam because his contract situation concerns me and I'm not sure if he's good enough to really make a difference.

Bridges or Brown make the most sense to me because they're still young enough that they could potentially fit both timelines.

Yeah no #3 for OG, but I sure would like to get Scoot and then trade Ant for OG.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm just going to go ahead and say this now.

If we dump the third pick in a mediocre trade to appease Dame, and then Scoot or Miller or whoever was there at 3 goes on to become a star, I'm going to be EXTREMELY annoyed and it will affect how I remember Dame's time in Portland.

so, not only won't you know if it's a bad trade for 3 or 4 or 5 years, you won't know if Portland would have selected the player who becomes a star. So you won't complain for 3 or 4 seasons, right? j/k

now, I'm obviously giving you some shit because I won't like it either if the Blazers trade #3 for a player like LaVine. Bridges-Brown-Siakam is a different situation, depending on what else is part of the price (personally I'd rate the order of those 3 as Bridges>Siakam>>>Brown). I guess, maybe, PG13 is entering the conversation but he's having more and more trouble staying healthy

I will say this: I'll be a lot more forgiving of an 'honest' effort to build a contender around Dame, and ultimately failing, than I suspect you will be. I think the Blazer org. owes Dame and the fans that honest effort. I've also began to have more and more reservations about the draft class after Wemby. Seems to be major questions about every top player

 

[TheGoldRanger]

Inmates running the asylum if we give up 3 for Lavine.

I agree. All things considered, I’d rather keep and play Simons than Lavine.

 

[Natebishop3]

so, not only won't you know if it's a bad trade for 3 or 4 or 5 years, you won't know if Portland would have selected the player who becomes a star. So you won't complain for 3 or 4 seasons, right? j/k

now, I'm obviously giving you some shit because I won't like it either if the Blazers trade #3 for a player like LaVine. Bridges-Brown-Siakam is a different situation, depending on what else is part of the price (personally I'd rate the order of those 3 as Bridges>Siakam>>>Brown). I guess, maybe, PG13 is entering the conversation but he's having more and more trouble staying healthy

I will say this: I'll be a lot more forgiving of an 'honest' effort to build a contender around Dame, and ultimately failing, than I suspect you will be. I think the Blazer org. owes Dame and the fans that honest effort. I've also began to have more and more reservations about the draft class after Wemby. Seems to be major questions about every top player

Oh it's something that will 100% be down the road. I'm just putting it on record now. I have had a bad taste in my mouth about how Brandon Roy spent his last few years here. I didn't like the drama surrounding Andre Miller. I didn't like the supposed unhappiness about how the team was featuring Oden. So for me, it tarnished Roy's legacy a bit.

I love Dame. He is my favorite player of all time. I'm just saying that if we dump the third pick to appease him, and the trade is mediocre (like a LaVine or even Siakam) it's going to most likely tarnish how I remember Dame a bit. Obviously that's going to be moot if we somehow pull off some crazy run and win a title.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah no #3 for OG, but I sure would like to get Scoot and then trade Ant for OG.

OG would be awful.... not quite as bad as LaVine, but definitely awful.

 

[wizenheimer]

Oh it's something that will 100% be down the road. I'm just putting it on record now. I have had a bad taste in my mouth about how Brandon Roy spent his last few years here. I didn't like the drama surrounding Andre Miller. I didn't like the supposed unhappiness about how the team was featuring Oden. So for me, it tarnished Roy's legacy a bit.

I love Dame. He is my favorite player of all time. I'm just saying that if we dump the third pick to appease him, and the trade is mediocre (like a LaVine or even Siakam) it's going to most likely tarnish how I remember Dame a bit. Obviously that's going to be moot if we somehow pull off some crazy run and win a title.

I think Siakam is better than Brown and would actually fit better

I don't have much angst about the 3rd pick for any of those 3 players, the most angst would be for Brown; I'm not crazy about it all but I see the reasoning. My concern has always been the price over and above that 3rd pick. We know Ant will be front & center. Hopefully not more than one future first, but even that would be bad because it would cost the 23rd pick to free up that first...fucking olshey

 

[wizenheimer]

wait...this latest kerfuffle and blast of angst & emotion is because MM said "I heard they will settle"...is that all it's based upon?

 

[Natebishop3]

wait...this latest kerfuffle and blast of angst & emotion is because MM said "I heard they will settle"...is that all it's based upon?

Not really. Just a thought that's been in the back of my head. Dame seems fairly confident that we will make some moves that put us back into the mix. That's the vibe I got anyway. He said he expects to be back in Portland in the fall and to me that means that he is confident we will do what he wants.

 

[B-Roy]

Dame's comments about expecting to be here at the start of the season kind of tells me there's a deal on the table already that Dame would be okay with. Maybe it's a mediocre one.

Whether the FO ends up OK-ing the deal in the end is probably the question. Honestly if Scoot falls into our laps I have a feeling the FO will seriously consider just taking him and moving Dame (or having that conversation, as Dame alluded to). Conversely, I think it's also most likely that Scoot is the key to any of our Plan A or even Plan B trade options. More and more I see of Miller I just can't see a team trading a high end player for someone whose upside is probably a Danny Granger/Rudy Gay type player. There is just no star potential there. Maybe a team falls in love with Amen? I dunno, I feel like it has to be Scoot one way or another.

 

[BIG Q]

Siakam, at this point must be viewed as a rental. He can walk as an unrestricted free agent after the season. DDR is also a free agent rental as his deal expires after the season. Same for Brown being considered a rental, in that he has an opt out after this season, as does OG. Bridges has 3 years left on an incredible deal. Hence, Brooklyn wants to keep him. LaVine has 3 years plus a player option for a fourth season at over $48 mil. I don't see Portland needing a shooting guard with Ant and Sharpe on the team. Bridges is the only player worthy of the third pick based on contract. If the experiment blows up, Portland has zero control over these players and Dame would certainly ask out. Who wants to be stuck in the outpost Portland is considered with shit management, a coach about to be fired, inept ownership and a roster that can not rebound the damn ball? Just control what you can control, drafting BPA's.

 

[TBpup]

Dame is the real deal. Dame is all in on our city. Dame , a generational talent doesn't come along very often. I find it quite disturbing how some think trading Dame is no big deal, and the franchise would just move on to better things. It's the old, "don't know what you got, till it's gone" thing. Thing to not tread lightly on. That's a real thing. There's no way the Blazers would get equal , or better value , out of that kind of move. Because teams that make that deal are looking for the piece to add to their team , that , they feel , will put them over the top. And they're not sending key pieces back if they want to succeed . They will send back fodder to make the cap work, and potential end of the draft future 1st that won't help immediately , if at all.


Phoenix made that mistake, and they went backwards. Now they're scrambling to figure out a way to reorganize what they did. I think they will fail. They're potentially gonna cut CP 3. They sold their soul.


Clyde leaving didn't make the Blazers better. It made them also rans. Trader Bob went away from the draft totally, and actually got the team close. I'd like to see Joe bring in another All NBA talent, along with supporting moves, and see what happens with "real talent" around Dame. Because i know what Dame can do. And it's flat out amazing.

To be fair, Portland was going downhill after going to the Finals 2 out of 3 years and the WCF 3 straight years. We have been no where near that level of accomplishment. Some people are acting like we have been on this contender type roll when we have been anything but that level. I get the Dame love. There is a reason I have his jersey. But at what point is there another direction when there has been such a lack of results from the current path?

 

[B-Roy]

To be fair, Portland was going downhill after going to the Finals 2 out of 3 years and the WCF 3 straight years. We have been no where near that level of accomplishment. Some people are acting like we have been on this contender type roll when we have been anything but that level. I get the Dame love. There is a reason I have his jersey. But at what point is there another direction when there has been such a lack of results from the current path?

There has been enough teams that have gone from meh to contender status through one or two key acquisitions over the last few years that I can totally see how Dame or the FO can be deluded into that line of thinking.

Here is one example:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2020.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2021.html

34 wins to 51 wins and the NBA finals mainly because the Suns added Chris Paul.

And part of me can believe it too. 4-10 in the Western conference this year was separated by 5 games, and if we're being honest, Portland is closer to that group without the injuries and blatant tanking at the end. No move will make them one of the premier contenders on paper, but none of the on-paper Western conference contenders made much noise this season. Clippers and Warriors bowed out. Lakers were 13th before turning their season around with not even a great trade. Hell, Miami made it to the finals as an 8th seed in the east. They almost missed the playoffs.

I get the other side too, saying it's unrealistic, it's a long shot. We don't have heat culture, we don't have LeBron, or Curry, or whatever other excuses people want to make. But from Dame's perspective, I think he just wants to bet on himself. Bet on Dame with a better roster and see where it goes, if we can catch lightning in a bottle and make a run, even if we don't ultimately win it.

Personally, I'm okay with either path. If we're at 3 and Scoot is available, take him and do one of two things:

1.) Keep him and go full in rebuilding, move Dame.
2.) Trade him and make a run with Dame.

Keeping both and straddling the line AGAIN would make me furious.

 

[tykendo]

Siakam, at this point must be viewed as a rental. He can walk as an unrestricted free agent after the season. DDR is also a free agent rental as his deal expires after the season. Same for Brown being considered a rental, in that he has an opt out after this season, as does OG. Bridges has 3 years left on an incredible deal. Hence, Brooklyn wants to keep him. LaVine has 3 years plus a player option for a fourth season at over $48 mil. I don't see Portland needing a shooting guard with Ant and Sharpe on the team. Bridges is the only player worthy of the third pick based on contract. If the experiment blows up, Portland has zero control over these players and Dame would certainly ask out. Who wants to be stuck in the outpost Portland is considered with shit management, a coach about to be fired, inept ownership and a roster that can not rebound the damn ball? Just control what you can control, drafting BPA's.

I doubt the Blazers are trading the #3 for any of those players without assurance they re-sign with the Blazers. That makes no sense at all. Who knows who the BPA is, because that won't likely be know for a few years (Jokic, Giammis,Mitchell, and on and on). BPA is not an exact science. But an All NBA Player is just that. Voted to that award based on actual performance. No one can be absolutely sure on anything. But i'm definitely more sure that a proven player will help this team compete, than some unproven youngster.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Another reason why a trade "like" Wagner and #6 works.
You legitimately try to get a player who can help next year, but who is young enough if Dame did ask to leave at any point can be part of a rebuild. (#6 would also be for the future)

If they don’t trade Dame, I completely agree

 

[Natebishop3]

I doubt the Blazers are trading the #3 for any of those players without assurance they re-sign with the Blazers. That makes no sense at all. Who knows who the BPA is, because that won't likely be know for a few years (Jokic, Giammis,Mitchell, and on and on). BPA is not an exact science. But an All NBA Player is just that. Voted to that award based on actual performance. No one can be absolutely sure on anything. But i'm definitely more sure that a proven player will help this team compete, than some unproven youngster.

Sure but it's the same situation as Jerami Grant. Obviously we don't know yet because we haven't crossed that bridge, but an assurance doesn't necessarily mean that they will do it. People change their minds. Either they sign on the dotted line at the time of the trade or there's a huge risk.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Keeping both and straddling the line AGAIN would make me furious.

Good post and I agree with 99.9% of it. However, if we were able to get an excellent defender in OG without giving up #3, then I would straddle.

I think Scoot would bring excellent energy off the bench for a couple of seasons and then when he is an old man of 21 then they can evaluate how Dame is holding up healthwise. Sacramento had Fox and drafted the 6' Davion Mitchell and it has worked so far. And although Scoot will need more minutes than say, Mitchell, Dame is older than Fox and will need more rest. Not saying this is my first choice, but it would not make me furious if it happened. You get Scoot and Sharpe hopefully for the long haul.

 

[B-Roy]

Good post and I agree with 99.9% of it. However, if we were able to get an excellent defender in OG without giving up #3, then I would straddle.

I think Scoot would bring excellent energy off the bench for a couple of seasons and then when he is an old man of 21 then they can evaluate how Dame is holding up healthwise. Sacramento had Fox and drafted the 6' Davion Mitchell and it has worked so far. And although Scoot will need more minutes than say, Mitchell, Dame is older than Fox and will need more rest. Not saying this is my first choice, but it would not make me furious if it happened. You get Scoot and Sharpe hopefully for the long haul.

If I'm Dame, drafting Scoot and not trading me would be a slap in the face. You're telling me you draft my eventual replacement instead after telling me for two years that you want to maximize the window of my prime.

Yes Scoot may be good out of the gate. Yes Scoot may be able to play with Dame. But in no scenario can I reasonably believe that using our most valuable asset on a player that is most likely to be a bench piece for the remainder of Dame's prime is "maximizing Dame's window".

Listening to Dame's comments in the last few months, I think he'd feel lied to and betrayed, and may want out just based on the principle.

 

[B-Roy]

Also, as a fan, if we drafted Scoot to keep, I want Scoot to have as much opportunity to play and fail as possible. I don't want Dame playing 36 minutes in front of him.

 

[BIG Q]

What is the asking price at the trade deadline when Brown, Siakam and OG are approaching free agency and Boston/Toronto try to save any value they can get? Best deal may be to wait until the trade deadline when the ask changes.