DAME COMING HOME?

[Tince]

How I wanted the Blazers to use the MLE is a moot point. I'm not the one making the decisions, nor do I have the knowledge of all the players available that those working in the front office should have.

However, to argue that it's acceptable to give a player that wants to come to Portland for personal reasons, cannot play the upcoming season, who doesn't seem to fit in what we've been led to believe we're trying to build and whose signing unquestionably further limits our already shaky cap flexibility more than we have to when we have other needs and potentially other fillers seems to contradict everything we've been told about building a contender on a timeline.

I really didn't want to rain on the dance party, at least for tonight, but there are implications of this move that I think Blazer fans should be troubled by.

The Blazers have been operating on multiple time-lines this entire time, regardless of what they say publicly. The Yang pick wasn't a win now move. The Jrue trade wasn't a long term move. I don't think they've had any clear direction other than it appear they're trying to maximize assets the best they can.

There is no evidence that signing Dame cost us the addition of a better asset in the short or long term, nor that his addition will hurt the growth of the franchise in the short or long term. There is nothing troubling about this singing from my perspective. I fully anticipated the MLE would go unused or given to a short rental.

 

[LayneStaley]

David Robinson to Duncan.

Dirk to Luka.

I like the Twin Towers example but didn’t Dirk and Luka play like one season together and wasn’t Dirk kinda washed?

I’m envisioning Scoot taking over and Dame embracing the bench sharpshooter role for a couple seasons after 2027. If Scoot hits.

 

[Tince]

the odds of Portland giving Deni an extension were extremely low. Pretty much out of the question now

Why wouldn't Portland give Deni an extension?

I always assumed Deni would take the extension, but I don't see how the Dame move impacts any of that.

 

[dviss1]

He better be smart and come off the bench. Love him, but he's a bench player now and better not be a fucking idiot about it.

Now I see what people are saying. Have some respect. Don't use that word and Dame in the same sentence again. Bite your tongue.

 

[PCmor7]

The Blazers have been operating on multiple time-lines this entire time, regardless of what they say publicly. The Yang pick wasn't a win now move. The Jrue trade wasn't a long term move. I don't think they've had any clear direction other than it appear they're trying to maximize assets the best they can.

There is no evidence that signing Dame cost us the addition of a better asset in the short or long term, nor that his addition will hurt the growth of the franchise in the short or long term. There is nothing troubling about this singing from my perspective. I fully anticipated the MLE would go unused or given to a short rental.

Agree with your first point. As for your second, there's no evidence that the signing of Dame won't cost us a better asset, either. Having less to work with is having less to work with. That's undeniable. And if that's your perspective, that's perfectly OK. Like I said, I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade tonight. I just think this is a sugar rush.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

You can have your take on him. We'll agree to disagree about that one. Fuck Joe Cronin. He gets very little props from me and frankly, getting Lillard back was a layup.

He never wanted to leave in the 1st place and ownership pushed him to demand a trade by languishing and lying to him.

What other GM has traded an all-star for an all-star and a haul of picks/youth - then got both the all-stars back? Plus kept the haul?

I literally can't think of this happening in the history of the NBA.

 

[Tince]

You don't know how this works: Cronin is at fault when things go wrong and lucked into anything that went right!

You can have your take on him. We'll agree to disagree about that one. Fuck Joe Cronin. He gets very little props from me and frankly, getting Lillard back was a layup.

He never wanted to leave in the 1st place and ownership pushed him to demand a trade by languishing and lying to him.

Example #1738

 

[Tince]

Agree with your first point. As for your second, there's no evidence that the signing of Dame won't cost us a better asset, either. Having less to work with is having less to work with. That's undeniable. And if that's your perspective, that's perfectly OK. Like I said, I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade tonight. I just think this is a sugar rush.

Sure, we could cut everyone and maxmize our cap space if that were the end goal, but we'd be without players (yes, I know the CBA wouldn't allow it).

In this example, we have Dame and no MLE. We can compare what Portland has done with the MLE the last decade to help determine what likely return would be if we didn't sign Dame. I'm going to guess Dame ranks better than any MLE signing we've had in ages, if not ever.

 

[PCmor7]

I don't understand what your arguing against.

Nobody said the things you posted, those are your opinions or your lack of understand of how GMs talk.

Nets gave Durant a full max when he tore Achilles. Lakers gave a same age Kobe max.

Blazers gave Dame MLE. Not much risk. If it doesn't work out we still have two dumber contracts on our cap.

I was responding to a direct question to me. There's a lot here to sift through that either touched on things I posted or one could take there and just what I think, so why you feel the need to jump in with ad hominem attacks is kind of odd, but I guess you have your reasons.

I don't care what the Nets gave Durant or the Lakers gave Kobe. Those are different players and different teams in different times with different goals. The context is different and it matters.

If you really think that third point, that's perfectly fine. I don't.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Why wouldn't Portland give Deni an extension?

I always assumed Deni would take the extension, but I don't see how the Dame move impacts any of that.

Deni low salary means a team needs cap space to give him a big extension. Now more unlikely the Blazers can clear that space.

 

[wizenheimer]

I keep seeing people say Dame is going to make 54M from the Bucks and 14M from the Blazers....68M.

but Dame apparently has an offset clause. So I think that means he'll make 40M from the Bucks and 14M from the Blazers. Maybe I'm wrong about that but I thought the new CBA closed down the double-dipping loopholes

not that would just be where his money is coming from; not the cap-impact for Milwaukee

 

[Tince]

Deni low salary means a team needs cap space to give him a big extension. Now more unlikely the Blazers can clear that space.

I So it is safe to assume the Blazers already tested the extension waters with Deni and he said no?

@wizenheimer my bad!

 

[inconceivable]

Dame / Scoot
Jrue / Shae / Rupert
Tou / Tisse
Deni / Jerami / Kris
Clingan / Williams / Yang / Reath

Championship baby!

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I keep seeing people say Dame is going to make 54M from the Bucks and 14M from the Blazers....68M.

but Dame apparently has an offset clause. So I think that means he'll make 40M from the Bucks and 14M from the Blazers. Maybe I'm wrong about that but I thought the new CBA closed down the double-dipping loopholes

not that would just be where his money is coming from; not the cap-impact for Milwaukee

Shams reported Dame will make over 70 mil

 

[blazerkor]

I keep seeing people say Dame is going to make 54M from the Bucks and 14M from the Blazers....68M.

but Dame apparently has an offset clause. So I think that means he'll make 40M from the Bucks and 14M from the Blazers. Maybe I'm wrong about that but I thought the new CBA closed down the double-dipping loopholes

not that would just be where his money is coming from; not the cap-impact for Milwaukee

I'm not sure. If you're right you'll be ahead of Shams on this one.

 

[BBert]

I just did the Dougie for about fifteen minutes. All is right in the world right now. I HATED SEEING DAME IN ANOTHER Uniform.

That's why I didn't watch a single Bucks game while he played for them.

 

[Tince]

I keep seeing people say Dame is going to make 54M from the Bucks and 14M from the Blazers....68M.

but Dame apparently has an offset clause. So I think that means he'll make 40M from the Bucks and 14M from the Blazers. Maybe I'm wrong about that but I thought the new CBA closed down the double-dipping loopholes

not that would just be where his money is coming from; not the cap-impact for Milwaukee

Not what Shams said.

Aren't buyouts treated differently than someone getting waived?

It would make sense to me that someone who agreed to getting bought out shouldn't be able to double dip. But a player who gets cut from their deal shouldn't be punished.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Hahaha... couldn't even get out a full tweet of praise without taking a dig at him though! Dishonest Joe!

Go listen to their summer league stream. Eric said he wasn't jumping for joy about it but Torey was.

I'm with Torey on this one. Literally no reason to hate Cronin. For the camp thought Dame was screwed by Cronin, Dame moved on, everyone else should too.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I So it is safe to assume the Blazers already tested the extension waters with Deni and he said no?

@wizenheimer my bad!

Blazers didn't have cap space this summer. I wouldn't think they even asked as it would require so many what ifs about the future and might not happen.

Maybe the Blazers never even considered it as they planned to stay above the cap. Last time Blazers had cap space they won the Evan Turner sweepstakes.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Not what Shams said.

Aren't buyouts treated differently than someone getting waived?

It would make sense to me that someone who agreed to getting bought out shouldn't be able to double dip. But a player who gets cut from their deal shouldn't be punished.

Good point. Maybe the Bucks don't get any cap relief from Dame signing.

 

[Tince]

Go listen to their summer league stream. Eric said he wasn't jumping for joy about it but Torey was.

I'm with Torey on this one. Literally no reason to hate Cronin. For the camp thought Dame was screwed by Cronin, Dame moved on, everyone else should too.

Wasn't Eric screaming at Cronin and crying when they traded Dame?

Now we get him back for $0.20 on the dollar, plus assets and he's not happy? Geeze.

 

[PCmor7]

Sure, we could cut everyone and maxmize our cap space if that were the end goal, but we'd be without players (yes, I know the CBA wouldn't allow it).

In this example, we have Dame and no MLE. We can compare what Portland has done with the MLE the last decade to help determine what likely return would be if we didn't sign Dame. I'm going to guess Dame ranks better than any MLE signing we've had in ages, if not ever.

That's hyperbole. It's hard to have a serious conversation with you if this is where you're going to go. I get the emotions. Like I said, I don't want to be a wet blanket. It'd be nice if some posters would respect my opinion as much as I am respecting there, but I should know better than that.

All I'll say, again, is it's a pretty simple premise: If you are giving more money to someone than you have to you have less to give to someone else. One can rationalize all the reasons they want otherwise. It doesn't change that.

Going back to the only thing I said at the very beginning, Dame set conditions with the Blazers chose to either accept, deny, or negotiate. It looks like to some degree they put more weight on Dame's wishes than the team's growth, and they are allowed to do that and fans can choose to be fine with that or not. I see issues with it both in the short term and long term. I'm not going to argue the specifics of the my concerns with people just overjoyed to have him back tonight. All that does is make me a target for animus, and I don't need that. I'm a fan and I'm entitled to have an opinion on the matter, though, as much as anyone. I'm trying to be more respectful to others with how I choose to convey that at the moment.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I keep seeing people say Dame is going to make 54M from the Bucks and 14M from the Blazers....68M.

but Dame apparently has an offset clause. So I think that means he'll make 40M from the Bucks and 14M from the Blazers. Maybe I'm wrong about that but I thought the new CBA closed down the double-dipping loopholes

not that would just be where his money is coming from; not the cap-impact for Milwaukee

I'm not sure this is correct. I thought I recall Ayton getting both his Blazers bought out amount plus $8mil Lakers salary.

 

[LayneStaley]

Aren’t Grant and Jrue up the same year Deni is? Can’t we Max him then?

 

[dviss1]

What other GM has traded an all-star for an all-star and a haul of picks/youth - then got both the all-stars back? Plus kept the haul?

I literally can't think of this happening in the history of the NBA.

You can go through all the trades and moves that you want. Fuck him. I don't like him. Let me have my opinion.

Edit: When has an NBA star the caliber of Damian Lillard been waived and stretched?

Right. Never happened before in the NBA. Cronin had no clue that was going to happen. He got lucky.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

That's hyperbole. It's hard to have a serious conversation with you if this is where you're going to go. I get the emotions. Like I said, I don't want to be a wet blanket. It'd be nice if some posters would respect my opinion as much as I am respecting there, but I should know better than that.

All I'll say, again, is it's a pretty simple premise: If you are giving more money to someone than you have to you have less to give to someone else. One can rationalize all the reasons they want otherwise. It doesn't change that.

Going back to the only thing I said at the very beginning, Dame set conditions with the Blazers chose to either accept, deny, or negotiate. It looks like to some degree they put more weight on Dame's wishes than the team's growth, and they are allowed to do that and fans can choose to be fine with that or not. I see issues with it both in the short term and long term. I'm not going to argue the specifics of the my concerns with people just overjoyed to have him back tonight. All that does is make me a target for animus, and I don't need that. I'm a fan and I'm entitled to have an opinion on the matter, though, as much as anyone. I'm trying to be more respectful to others with how I choose to convey that at the moment.

These are all just a bunch of your options. But your statement reads as though it's facts of what the Blazers or Dame did, which none of them are.

 

[inconceivable]

Shams said Dame will make 140 in the next two years.

He is wrong.

He was thinking 100 from the bucks and 40 from the blazers.

The reality is the 114 remaining in his Bucks contract for the next two seasons is stretched into 23 per year for 5 years

So Dame will make

25-26: 23 from bucks 14 from blazers
26-27: 23 from bucks 14 from blazers
27-28: 23 from bucks 14 from blazers if opted in
28-29: 23 from bucks
29-30: 23 from bucks

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Aren’t Grant and Jrue up the same year Deni is? Can’t we Max him then?

Yes. Blazers can sign Deni in summer 2028 and pay more than any other NBA team. But they can't give him a big extension prior to him being a free agent.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Shams said Dame will make 140 in the next two years.

He is wrong.

He was thinking 100 from the bucks and 40 from the blazers.

The reality is the 114 remaining in his Bucks contract for the next two seasons is stretched into 23 per year for 5 years

So Dame will make

25-26: 23 from bucks 14 from blazers
26-27: 23 from bucks 14 from blazers
27-28: 23 from bucks 14 from blazers if opted in
28-29: 23 from bucks
29-30:23 from bucks

The stretch is the cap hit, not what the Bucks pay Dame.

Dame gets his bucks salary in full the next two years.

 

[Tince]

That's hyperbole. It's hard to have a serious conversation with you if this is where you're going to go. I get the emotions. Like I said, I don't want to be a wet blanket. It'd be nice if some posters would respect my opinion as much as I am respecting there, but I should know better than that.

All I'll say, again, is it's a pretty simple premise: If you are giving more money to someone than you have to you have less to give to someone else. One can rationalize all the reasons they want otherwise. It doesn't change that.

Going back to the only thing I said at the very beginning, Dame set conditions with the Blazers chose to either accept, deny, or negotiate. It looks like to some degree they put more weight on Dame's wishes than the team's growth, and they are allowed to do that and fans can choose to be fine with that or not. I see issues with it both in the short term and long term. I'm not going to argue the specifics of the my concerns with people just overjoyed to have him back tonight. All that does is make me a target for animus, and I don't need that. I'm a fan and I'm entitled to have an opinion on the matter, though, as much as anyone. I'm trying to be more respectful to others with how I choose to convey that at the moment.

Again, we gave up the MLE and got Dame in return, that seems like the best use of the MLE Portland has had in over a decade, maybe ever. We have some historic data of what we've got in return for the MLE in the past. Can you point to me a return, using the MLE that was better than Dame is likely to be? Nothing emotional about it from my end.

I'm looking at the best free agent out there right now and I could speculate on what player making less than the MLE might trade for a trade exception later, and it's hard to come up with anyone who would be better than Dame is likely to be. Of course there is risk. There is risk Dame might be awful. There is a risk the person they might've used the MLE on other than Dame could be an all-star. However, the historic data suggests this is the best use of the MLE in recent history for Portland.