DAME COMING HOME?

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Tince said:
Wasn't Eric screaming at Cronin and crying when they traded Dame?

Now we get him back for $0.20 on the dollar, plus assets and he's not happy? Geeze.
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There are some people who just straight up hate Cronin. Hate him personally.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
I'm not sure this is correct. I thought I recall Ayton getting both his Blazers bought out amount plus $8mil Lakers salary.
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Yes, you are correct. Ayton agreed to take less to get out of his contract, but gets the full amount of what was agreed to plus the amount the Lakers are giving him. It turned out to be close to what he was scheduled to make.
 
Tince said:
Why wouldn't Portland give Deni an extension?

I always assumed Deni would take the extension, but I don't see how the Dame move impacts any of that.
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because of Deni's existing contract

in order to give Deni and extension, the Blazers could pay him 140% of the final guaranteed year of his deal. The final year salary is 11.875M

meaning, the max the Blazers could pay Deni is 16.6M in base salary in 2028-29. Now they might be able to use the MLE to sign him, but that would be around 17M by then, maybe a little higher. Keep in mind that a max salary that season for a player of Deni's experience would be 60M

the only way the Blazers could have given Deni, say, a 40M/year deal is to have that much in cap-space
 
LayneStaley said:
Aren’t Grant and Jrue up the same year Deni is? Can’t we Max him then?
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Both of their contracts do expire and we can offer Deni more years than anyone else but I'm not sure if we can offer him more money if he doesn't make an all nba team. I'm not sure though. Something about how big of a raise a player can get might come into play.

Regardless we'll have Deni's bird rights so wherever we're at as far as cap management won't come into play.
 
inconceivable said:
Shams said Dame will make 140 in the next two years.

He is wrong.

He was thinking 100 from the bucks and 40 from the blazers.

The reality is the 114 remaining in his Bucks contract for the next two seasons is stretched into 23 per year for 5 years

So Dame will make

25-26: 23 from bucks 14 from blazers
26-27: 23 from bucks 14 from blazers
27-28: 23 from bucks 14 from blazers if opted in
28-29: 23 from bucks
29-30: 23 from bucks
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That's incorrect. You're looking at cap-hit vs actual payment.
 
wizenheimer said:
because of Deni's existing contract

in order to give Deni and extension, the Blazers could pay him 140% of the final guaranteed year of his deal. The final year salary is 11.875M

meaning, the max the Blazers could pay Deni is 16.6M in base salary in 2028-29. Now they might be able to use the MLE to sign him, but that would be around 17M by then, maybe a little higher. Keep in mind that a max salary that season for a player of Deni's experience would be 60M

the only way the Blazers could have given Deni, say, a 40M/year deal is to have that much in cap-space
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I think I'm following(ish). So did the Dame signing really impact their ability to offer Deni an extension he was likely to agree to this summer?
 
Tince said:
Not what Shams said.

Aren't buyouts treated differently than someone getting waived?

It would make sense to me that someone who agreed to getting bought out shouldn't be able to double dip. But a player who gets cut from their deal shouldn't be punished.
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I looked it up and yeah, it might be that Dame gets both since he was just waived and not bought out
 
Tince said:
I think I'm following(ish). So did the Dame signing really impact their ability to offer Deni an extension he was likely to agree to this summer?
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Deni isn't extension eligible. People are talking about the idea of giving him an extension in summer 2026 or 2027.
 
Tince said:
Again, we gave up the MLE and got Dame in return, that seems like the best use of the MLE Portland has had in over a decade, maybe ever. We have some historic data of what we've got in return for the MLE in the past. Can you point to me a return, using the MLE that was better than Dame is likely to be? Nothing emotional about it from my end.

I'm looking at the best free agent out there right now and I could speculate on what player making less than the MLE might trade for a trade exception later, and it's hard to come up with anyone who would be better than Dame is likely to be. Of course there is risk. There is risk Dame might be awful. There is a risk the person they might've used the MLE on other than Dame could be an all-star. However, the historic data suggests this is the best use of the MLE in recent history for Portland.
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You keep trying to argue a point that's not arguable, Tince, unless you are Cronin or someone on the staff or someone on the staff that knows these things.

If you say you aren't emotional about it, fine, OK, you don't have to prove it to me, but you are awfully invested in arguing a point that neither of us can prove right or wrong about tonight. The only thing that can be proven is that we gave up resources that we didn't have to for a guy who won't play this season. That's inarguable. Saying that history says we wouldn't have done anything else with the money is unknowable and, therefore, not relevant.

I'm going to let you just go on with this if you feel you need to keep making the argument. It's really going nowhere.
 
Tince said:
I think I'm following(ish). So did the Dame signing really impact their ability to offer Deni an extension he was likely to agree to this summer?
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I don't think so. The only remote chance the Blazers had was in 2026-27. And with the Jrue/Grant salary + Deni-Scoot-Clingan-Hansen-Murray plus Sharpe's new deal. it was probably going to be, at best, only 20M in space. That wasn't going to be enough. With Dame, that's mostly gone. And I wouldn't be surprised if Portland tried to re0sign Thybulle.

my guess is that Portland knew full well when they traded for Deni they were going to be dealing with him being UFA in 2028
 
SharpesTriumph said:
These are all just a bunch of your options. But your statement reads as though it's facts of what the Blazers or Dame did, which none of them are.
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The options are the facts. Dame's availability is a fact. The competitive situation of this team might not be a fact but it certainly falls highly to a specific probability. The salary cap is a fact. I don't even understand the purpose of your response to me. You actually are saying what my statement reads as though, which, clearly, shows this is your interpretation and might not even be correct. You have an idea in your head and you're just letting it run away with you.

I'm going to say the same thing I told Tince: Feel how you feel and that's fine with me. I don't feel I can have an honest, constructive discussion with you right now. Ad hominem attacks kind of make me feel that way. If you want to see it that way, more power to you, have a good night, because I'm not going to go in circles discussing things with someone that's admitting they're replying to their own misconception of what I think.
 
wizenheimer said:
I don't think so. The only remote chance the Blazers had was in 2026-27. And with the Jrue/Grant salary + Deni-Scoot-Clingan-Hansen-Murray plus Sharpe's new deal. it was probably going to be, at best, only 20M in space. That wasn't going to be enough. With Dame, that's mostly gone. And I wouldn't be surprised if Portland tried to re0sign Thybulle.

my guess is that Portland knew full well when they traded for Deni they were going to be dealing with him being UFA in 2028
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How often does a player at 27-28 turn down the extra year(that only we can offer)? Deni is nice but it’s not like he’s KD or LBJ and gonna dictate super team alliances.
 
PCmor7 said:
You keep trying to argue a point that's not arguable, Tince, unless you are Cronin or someone on the staff or someone on the staff that knows these things.

If you say you aren't emotional about it, fine, OK, you don't have to prove it to me, but you are awfully invested in arguing a point that neither of us can prove right or wrong about tonight. The only thing that can be proven is that we gave up resources that we didn't have to for a guy who won't play this season. That's inarguable. Saying that history says we wouldn't have done anything else with the money is unknowable and, therefore, not relevant.

I'm going to let you just go on with this if you feel you need to keep making the argument. It's really going nowhere.
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I guess I don't get your point. We've had a 1:1 exchange, so yes, we're equally invested.

Your concern with the usage of the MLE to sign Dame is what?
 
LayneStaley said:
How often does a player at 27-28 turn down the extra year(that only we can offer)? Deni is nice but it’s not like he’s KD or LBJ and gonna dictate super team alliances.
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don't get me wrong, Portland will be holding great cards when Deni is UFA. They can give him a 5 year deal when other teams can only give 4. They can give Deni 8% step raises when other teams can only offer 5%

Deni would have to hate it in Portland if he left
 
wizenheimer said:
I don't think so. The only remote chance the Blazers had was in 2026-27. And with the Jrue/Grant salary + Deni-Scoot-Clingan-Hansen-Murray plus Sharpe's new deal. it was probably going to be, at best, only 20M in space. That wasn't going to be enough. With Dame, that's mostly gone. And I wouldn't be surprised if Portland tried to re0sign Thybulle.

my guess is that Portland knew full well when they traded for Deni they were going to be dealing with him being UFA in 2028
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Thanks for the breakdown!
 
PCmor7 said:
How I wanted the Blazers to use the MLE is a moot point. I'm not the one making the decisions, nor do I have the knowledge of all the players available that those working in the front office should have.

However, to argue that it's acceptable to give a player that wants to come to Portland for personal reasons, cannot play the upcoming season, who doesn't seem to fit in what we've been led to believe we're trying to build and whose signing unquestionably further limits our already shaky cap flexibility more than we have to when we have other needs and potentially other fillers seems to contradict everything we've been told about building a contender on a timeline.

I really didn't want to rain on the dance party, at least for tonight, but there are implications of this move that I think Blazer fans should be troubled by.
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LayneStaley said:


According to this Dame is making 70 mil to rehab this year.
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That is a LOT to rehab. That is why I question, if they were going to spend the money, sign Dame to the Vet Min, bring him home, he will still get tons of money, and then sign a player that can additionally help. He has an opt-out as soon as he isn't making $70,000,000 per season.

I don't think anyone is against Dame coming back, but there is reasonable, responsible, logical things to deal with when it comes to the finances.
 
Tince said:
Again, we gave up the MLE and got Dame in return, that seems like the best use of the MLE Portland has had in over a decade, maybe ever. We have some historic data of what we've got in return for the MLE in the past. Can you point to me a return, using the MLE that was better than Dame is likely to be? Nothing emotional about it from my end.

I'm looking at the best free agent out there right now and I could speculate on what player making less than the MLE might trade for a trade exception later, and it's hard to come up with anyone who would be better than Dame is likely to be. Of course there is risk. There is risk Dame might be awful. There is a risk the person they might've used the MLE on other than Dame could be an all-star. However, the historic data suggests this is the best use of the MLE in recent history for Portland.
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I think I agree.

The Blazers have a young guy at every single position.

Scoot
Shae
Tou
Deni
Clingan/Yang

They have a veteran at every position except for maybe small forward.
Jrue
Tisse
Grant
RWIII

There's just not a glaring hole to use that MLE trade exception on. So realistically the best player we could get for the money is Dame, and most likely by a wide margin.
 
TBpup said:
That is a LOT to rehab. That is why I question, if they were going to spend the money, sign Dame to the Vet Min, bring him home, he will still get tons of money, and then sign a player that can additionally help. He has an opt-out as soon as he isn't making $70,000,000 per season.

I don't think anyone is against Dame coming back, but there is reasonable, responsible, logical things to deal with when it comes to the finances.
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Was Dame open to signing for the minimum? If he was, I'd assume Portland would've taken him up on it in a second.

To me, the logical assumption is that he wasn't ok taking the minimum, but said he would return for the terms agreed upon. At that point, Portland had to decide if signing Dame to this deal was a net-positive use of their MLE. If Dame returns at 75% of what he was last year, I think the answer is an easy yes.
 
Dame is gonna be the Kirk Cousins of the NBA. How much cash has he made already?
 
I think a lot of folks don’t understand that “being lucky” is a symptom of being good. When you’re good you put yourself in situations where, if an event happens, you can make it work for you. You come out of it looking lucky because you had the flexibility to take advantage.

Yes, Cronin got lucky with Dame. He seems to get lucky a lot. That’s because he’s good at his job. We carry a lot of negotiable currency in various kinds just in case, and it pays off.
 
TBpup said:
That is a LOT to rehab. That is why I question, if they were going to spend the money, sign Dame to the Vet Min, bring him home, he will still get tons of money, and then sign a player that can additionally help. He has an opt-out as soon as he isn't making $70,000,000 per season.

I don't think anyone is against Dame coming back, but there is reasonable, responsible, logical things to deal with when it comes to the finances.
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It might be a bad decision to pay Dame the MLE. I'm fine with it, but it might ultimately be a mistake.

I don't understand why people are bringing up Dame Milwaukee salary though. That has nothing to do with it. Sunk cost and history. Do the Lakers talk about what LeBron made in Miami? Both are as relevant.
 
Everything Beagle said:
I think a lot of folks don’t understand that “being lucky” is a symptom of being good. When you’re good you put yourself in situations where, if an event happens, you can make it work for you. You come out of it looking lucky because you had the flexibility to take advantage.
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Luck = Preperation + Opportunity
 
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