Dame in Milwaukee thread

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Natebishop3 said:
I don’t think Roy played long enough to be rated. I don’t think he can be overrated or underrated. He had three years and then he was hurt. That is simply not enough time.
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Rating is all subjective, I so let's remove the rated word and say that Roy was "underappreciated", imho.

If you ask me who the greatest Blazer was, I would say Walton simply because he was the best player in the NBA while wearing the Blazers jersey and winning it all - but that is just my "rating". If you start getting into longevity as "greatest" - where does team success stand and how does the roster construction impact that as well? (The Drexler question).

If you ask me to "rate" Dame as a Blazers, I would say he was the greatest offensive Blazers given the rules that were at the day. I would also say that I am sure that he would do very poorly on the Blazers in a different era. The only thing that really "annoyed" me about the Roy vs Dame post you made was the 20PPG when comparing very different players in very different systems, eras and pace. That's not the reason to rate one over the other, imho.

If you ask me, Dame had a month a year when he would go super-nova and could win against every team in the league. Roy did not have these sustained bursts, but I thought he was more un-guardable on a more consistent basis, simply because Dame as a shooter has a bigger variance in his gravity, Roy's physicality given his handle and skill was more dependable as something that could not be countered imho - so I do not think that Dame's amazing offensive performances were that much higher than Roy's when you consider pace, era etc... - but that's not here nor there.

TLDR; I was not happy about the 20PPG measure to once again show my appreciation for the greatness of Roy we got to enjoy for too short of a time. That's all.

I personally thought the Blazers were building something special during the Roy years. A lot less so during the Dame years. Some of it was the roster as a whole, but Roy, imho, is someone that would be easier to build a contender around than Dame.
 
I will still say that I have never seen a player make his teammates better players like Walton did. He was the best player in the world when healthy in his Blazers years. But that was only 1.75 seasons. But he made players like Bob Gross into incredible players on that team. Gross cut and Walton found him. Outlet passes to Davis and Twardzik were ridiculous. Lucas was a star unto his own. Walton was just incredible. He left, I got over it. Lillard demanded out, everyone will get over it.
 
andalusian said:
If you ask me, Dame had a month a year when he would go super-nova and could win against every team in the league. Roy did not have these sustained bursts, but I thought he was more un-guardable on a more consistent basis, simply because Dame as a shooter has a bigger variance in his gravity, Roy's physicality given his handle and skill was more dependable as something that could not be countered imho - so I do not think that Dame's amazing offensive performances were that much higher than Roy's when you consider pace, era etc... - but that's not here nor there.
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Neither Roy nor Dame was as good as Drexler, can we at least agree with that?
 
andalusian said:
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What I loved most about Roy was that he could get a layup easier than just about any other player I've watched. I mean, they call CJ McCollum "crafty" but his game was a poor man's Roy's in a body 4 inches shorter and far less athletic.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Woopadee doo. One game. So if Scoot plays one game, drops 100 points and then retires… is he the greatest blazer of all time?
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Let's hope we don't have to find out.

Any accolade you can come up with for Dame that isn't longevity-based, Walton can effectively beat. Plus Walton played both ends of the court.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Let's hope we don't have to find out.

Any accolade you can come up with for Dame that isn't longevity-based, Walton can effectively beat. Plus Walton played both ends of the court.
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Did Walton have the most efficient 70 point game in the history of the league? Did Walton have two series clinching buzzer beaters? I'm not saying that Walton having the greatest season and in fact two seasons ever in a Blazers uniform should be ignored but Dame has done some incredibly impressive things, he never had the right team around him and he sustained an incredibly high level longer than any other player in franchise history. Longevity shouldn't be the only thing but I think it definitely counts for something, when coupled with elite play throughout that long tenure.
 
Strenuus said:
So why blame Dame for that?

He can both be the greatest trailblazer of all time and notice the front office let him down.
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A. I never said I blame Dame whatsoever
B. You want to get into the "Best Blazer Ever" argument but there is no definitive answer and is all based on peoples opinions.
 
bigbailes said:
A. I never said I blame Dame whatsoever
B. You want to get into the "Best Blazer Ever" argument but there is no definitive answer and is all based on peoples opinions.
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Sorry, that was in response to a couple posts before you and was meant as a rhetorical to your post. I see how that was confusing.

And dame is. Front office failed him hard, but he is. Longevity + production - front office idiocy. 2 out of 3 ain't bad lol
 
blazerkor said:
Did Walton have the most efficient 70 point game in the history of the league? Did Walton have two series clinching buzzer beaters? I'm not saying that Walton having the greatest season and in fact two seasons ever in a Blazers uniform should be ignored but Dame has done some incredibly impressive things, he never had the right team around him and he sustained an incredibly high level longer than any other player in franchise history. Longevity shouldn't be the only thing but I think it definitely counts for something, when coupled with elite play throughout that long tenure.
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I would say that Walton being both the league MVP and the finals MVP and doing it by playing the same position, and against a prime Kareem is pretty much higher than anything Dame has ever done. It's really not close, imho.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Let's hope we don't have to find out.

Any accolade you can come up with for Dame that isn't longevity-based, Walton can effectively beat. Plus Walton played both ends of the court.
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Again, this is where personal opinions on value come into play. Walton was the better player, but is the greatest Blazer of all time? Dame stuck around and played at an insanely high level for 11 years on some really mediocre teams. He only left because the team moved on. Walton won a ring and was the better player while he was here for a few years, but was he a better member of the organization? I think there’s more to the package than just time on the court. That’s part of it, but not the only part.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Bullshit. This is the same reasoning that discounts Walton, who WAS the Greatest Blazer Ever.
Quality over quantity.
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But he demanded to be traded AND SUED THE TEAM after being traded.

If Lillard demanding to be traded from an obviously built-to-tank team prevents him from being considered the greatest Blazer ever, then how can we consider Walton the greatest Blazer ever who not only demanded to be traded, he demanded to be traded from a team that was still strongly in a championship window, led by our greatest coach, and one of our best GMs? And to top it off, sued the damn team!

Who did more damage going out the door, Lillard or Walton?
 
andalusian said:
I would say that Walton being both the league MVP and the finals MVP and doing it by playing the same position, and against a prime Kareem is pretty much higher than anything Dame has ever done. It's really not close, imho.
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Of course. You're responding to a post that acknowledged that Walton had the best two seasons ever by a Blazers player. That being said, Walton had a helluva team around him and the same couldn't be said for Dame at any point during his time here. This isn't a cut and dry issue as to who the greatest Blazers player of all time is. We know that Dame is the leading scorer in franchise history and is in second place for assists behind Porter. We also know that Dame didn't lead the team to the finals. There are a lot of variables and it makes sense that people will give more weight to certain factors than others. I think it's safe to say that we don't have a clear cut best Blazers player of all time.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
But he demanded to be traded AND SUED THE TEAM after being traded.

If Lillard demanding to be traded from an obviously built-to-tank team prevents him from being considered the greatest Blazer ever, then who can we consider Walton the greatest Blazer ever who not only demanded to be traded, he demanded to be traded from a team that was still strongly in a championship window, led by our greatest coach, and one of our best GMs? And to top it off, sued the damn team!

Who did more damage going out the door, Lillard or Walton?
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This is why I think being the greatest blazer is about more than just the time on the court.
 
Natebishop3 said:
This is why I think being the greatest blazer is about more than just the time on the court.
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WALTON DIRECTLY CONTRIBUTED TO DOWNTOWN PORTLAND STREET CRIME BY TAKING DRUGS AND REFUSING TO LOCK UP HIS BICYCLE BEFORE THE CHAMPIONSHIP PARADE!

And look where we are today...
 
SlyPokerDog said:
But he demanded to be traded AND SUED THE TEAM after being traded.

If Lillard demanding to be traded from an obviously built-to-tank team prevents him from being considered the greatest Blazer ever, then how can we consider Walton the greatest Blazer ever who not only demanded to be traded, he demanded to be traded from a team that was still strongly in a championship window, led by our greatest coach, and one of our best GMs? And to top it off, sued the damn team!

Who did more damage going out the door, Lillard or Walton?
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Obviously Walton, because when he left we'd lost the Greatest Blazer Ever.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Roy had ONE very good year. One. I swear people have crazy rose colored glasses for that dude. He averaged over 20 points in 2 seasons. Dame has only averaged under 20 points one time…. His rookie year. They’re just not even remotely on the same level.
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Roy was fantastic. I'd rather have Roy with the ball down 1 than Dame. He was so good at pulling those out and/or getting fouled.

Love Dame. But Roy was incredible as well.
 
blazerkor said:
Of course. You're responding to a post that acknowledged that Walton had the best two seasons ever by a Blazers player. That being said, Walton had a helluva team around him and the same couldn't be said for Dame at any point during his time here. This isn't a cut and dry issue as to who the greatest Blazers player of all time is. We know that Dame is the leading scorer in franchise history and is in second place for assists behind Porter. We also know that Dame didn't lead the team to the finals. There are a lot of variables and it makes sense that people will give more weight to certain factors than others. I think it's safe to say that we don't have a clear cut best Blazers player of all time.
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Oh, I disagree about that. It is clear who was the best, it is not clear who was the "greatest" by the murky definitions of longevity and off-court contributions, if the Blazers had multiple league MVPs and final MVPs I would accept the fact that it is hard to tell who was the best player that wore Blazers jersey (as a Blazer). But, one of them was the best player in the world at the time, the other was not close to it. It is pretty clear which one was the best.

Greatest, I can accept different definitions and I will accept that there is an argument to make for Dame being the best offensive player ever to wear the Blazers jersey as a Blazers player, but overall? Nope.
 
I mean if we are talking greatest, technically Pippen has six rings so he’s probably the best in terms of greatest blazer to ever put the uniform on.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Roy was fantastic. I'd rather have Roy with the ball down 1 than Dame. He was so good at pulling those out and/or getting fouled.

Love Dame. But Roy was incredible as well.
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If only they'd been able to play together. Dame at PG and Roy as SG would have been all-time unstoppable.
 
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