Dame injury (2 Viewers)

[wizenheimer]

I'm not going to argue either way on CJ, but I do think that you should at least acknowledge that playing with Dame impacts CJ's role and his numbers. This is from a couple of years ago and I have no idea what more up to date stats would show, but in 2017 CJ scored 10 more points per game and shot at a higher percentage in games where he played and Dame was out due to injury or illness.

https://www.statmuse.com/stories/4afb15c4-45e4-44eb-9df3-1806e7ca2bb8

and Dame averaged about 34 & 10 last season when CJ was out. That's because the Blazers don't have any other high-usage ball handlers that consume possessions. But tiny sample sizes don't mean much at all. CJ spends a lot of time at the top of 2nd and 4th Q's with Dame on the bench. Time when he can be running the team and not deferring to Dame. Times when he often becomes MeJ. And that's a big reason why Dame has so many minutes this year because too often Stotts has to rush Dame back into the game early to save Portland

I saw those games you're talking about. I paid attention. CJ had good numbers (and a usage rate arounf 35%) but what opponents didn't do was to double and trap CJ like they always do Dame. They single-covered CJ even with Dame out because they didn't respect CJ's ability to beat them. If CJ was suddenly the #1 option on a team and his numbers were elevated up to say, 25 points/game like Lavine, defenses would start flexing toward CJ and his path would face a lot more resistance

 

[e_blazer]

and Dame averaged about 34 & 10 last season when CJ was out. That's because the Blazers don't have any other high-usage ball handlers that consume possessions. But tiny sample sizes don't mean much at all. CJ spends a lot of time at the top of 2nd and 4th Q's with Dame on the bench. Time when he can be running the team and not deferring to Dame. Times when he often becomes MeJ. And that's a big reason why Dame has so many minutes this year because too often Stotts has to rush Dame back into the game early to save Portland

I saw those games you're talking about. I paid attention. CJ had good numbers (and a usage rate arounf 35%) but what opponents didn't do was to double and trap CJ like they always do Dame. They single-covered CJ even with Dame out because they didn't respect CJ's ability to beat them. If CJ was suddenly the #1 option on a team and his numbers were elevated up to say, 25 points/game like Lavine, defenses would start flexing toward CJ and his path would face a lot more resistance

No doubt a lot of that's true. My only point is that we really don't know how CJ would handle a situation where he was with a new team and was the primary ball handler and backcourt scoring threat. Teams would adapt their defenses to him and he would adapt his game to the new role. He certainly has the skills to take on a role like that. If he had other scoring threats at the wings and in the post, I think he would distribute the ball more than he does here, but who knows?

 

[lawai'a]

I'm not going to argue either way on CJ, but I do think that you should at least acknowledge that playing with Dame impacts CJ's role and his numbers. This is from a couple of years ago and I have no idea what more up to date stats would show, but in 2017 CJ scored 10 more points per game and shot at a higher percentage in games where he played and Dame was out due to injury or illness.

https://www.statmuse.com/stories/4afb15c4-45e4-44eb-9df3-1806e7ca2bb8

I understand the small sample size, but would note he scored those 10 more points by taking an average of only 5.6 more shots.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

EC guards definitely or likely better than CJ:

Kemba Walker
Kyrie Irving
Bradley Beal
Jimmy Butler
Trae Young
Khris Middleton
Victor Oladipo
Ben Simmons
Zach Lavine

guards around CJ's level:

Eric Bledsoe
Kyle Lowry (6 time all-star)
Fred VanVleet
Malcolm Brogdon
Goran Dragic
Jaylen Brown

young guns who could step up:

Devonte Graham
Luke Kennard
Duncan Robinson
Collin Sexton
Kendrick Nunn

I don't know why people always assume it's an easy-peasy path to the all-star game for guards in the EC. There may not be guards with the super-star talent of Harden, Curry, and Dame, over there, but there are a bunch of really good guards that are better than CJ, some miles better

I know the thinking is that CJ will go to the East and blossom....at 29 or 30 years old, lol. But CJ won't be leaving his flaws and weaknesses behind, they will go with him. He's simply not 1st option material. If he was he'd be a hell of a lot better than the 45% percentile in isolation; the 64th percentile in PnR; and the 59th percentile in isolation. He'd rank a damn sight higher than 115th in PER, 227th in TS%, 234th in winshares/48, & 196th in BPM

he's accomplished that kind of average production & efficiency while being single-covered and drafting off of all the defensive attention Dame gets. If he was suddenly the #1 option, game in and game out, he'd be the primary focus of opposing defenses. Opponents would game-plan for CJ's strengths and weaknesses, and that is something he's never faced. If any team trades for CJ thinking he'll be their franchise player, the management is stupid and that team will very likely be losing most of it's games, and we know that makes the path to an all-star even more difficult

I mean, look at the EC and identify which teams would make CJ the #1 guy at 31M a year. Milwaukee wouldn't; Boston and Toronto wouldn't; Indiana wouldn't; Philly & Miami wouldn't. Even a bunch of the losers wouldn't like Washington or Atlanta

and CJ isn't going to be voted in by the fans so it would have to be coaches, and then, the factor of defense actually enters into the thinking unless a player is a bonafide star like Dame or Curry

I know some people are going to nit-pick the list I made and come up with reasons why CJ is better than some of those players like Lavine or VanVleet or Brown, but you should at least compare their numbers before you do

The issue with the numbers is that most of those guards for the most part are number 1 guys now, and only a couple of them with someone on Dame’s level. You’re kind of comparing apples and oranges. Would you want Kemba, Kyrie, or half of those guys to play next to Dame? Cause I sure wouldn't I think we’d say the same things about them that we do about CJ.
Problem with two guards like Dame and CJ who need the ball to be effective is there is only one ball. Weve seen WB and Harden have really good months, and really good games buts rare they’re both good at the same time, because its hard and one guy usually has to take a step back for the other. Would CJ be an automatic allstar in the east? I doubt it, but if he was on Charlotte or Detroit, or some team like that he’d be the #1 guy he’d have an offense tailored around him and his numbers would be a lot different.

 

[noknobs]

EC guards definitely or likely better than CJ:

Kemba Walker
Kyrie Irving
Bradley Beal
Jimmy Butler
Trae Young
Khris Middleton
Victor Oladipo
Ben Simmons
Zach Lavine

guards around CJ's level:

Eric Bledsoe
Kyle Lowry (6 time all-star)
Fred VanVleet
Malcolm Brogdon
Goran Dragic
Jaylen Brown

young guns who could step up:

Devonte Graham
Luke Kennard
Duncan Robinson
Collin Sexton
Kendrick Nunn

I don't know why people always assume it's an easy-peasy path to the all-star game for guards in the EC. There may not be guards with the super-star talent of Harden, Curry, and Dame, over there, but there are a bunch of really good guards that are better than CJ, some miles better

I know the thinking is that CJ will go to the East and blossom....at 29 or 30 years old, lol. But CJ won't be leaving his flaws and weaknesses behind, they will go with him. He's simply not 1st option material. If he was he'd be a hell of a lot better than the 45% percentile in isolation; the 64th percentile in PnR; and the 59th percentile in isolation. He'd rank a damn sight higher than 115th in PER, 227th in TS%, 234th in winshares/48, & 196th in BPM

he's accomplished that kind of average production & efficiency while being single-covered and drafting off of all the defensive attention Dame gets. If he was suddenly the #1 option, game in and game out, he'd be the primary focus of opposing defenses. Opponents would game-plan for CJ's strengths and weaknesses, and that is something he's never faced. If any team trades for CJ thinking he'll be their franchise player, the management is stupid and that team will very likely be losing most of it's games, and we know that makes the path to an all-star even more difficult

I mean, look at the EC and identify which teams would make CJ the #1 guy at 31M a year. Milwaukee wouldn't; Boston and Toronto wouldn't; Indiana wouldn't; Philly & Miami wouldn't. Even a bunch of the losers wouldn't like Washington or Atlanta

and CJ isn't going to be voted in by the fans so it would have to be coaches, and then, the factor of defense actually enters into the thinking unless a player is a bonafide star like Dame or Curry

I know some people are going to nit-pick the list I made and come up with reasons why CJ is better than some of those players like Lavine or VanVleet or Brown, but you should at least compare their numbers before you do

God you're obsessed.

 

[wizenheimer]

The issue with the numbers is that most of those guards for the most part are number 1 guys now, and only a couple of them with someone on Dame’s level. You’re kind of comparing apples and oranges.

CJ averages more FGA's than most of those guys on the list and has for the last 4 years. This season, CJ is 15th in FGA and 5 of the guys above him average less than 1 more shot a game.

Bradley Beal is 3rd in the NBA in FGA's/game at 22.0. That's 3 more shots than CJ but he averages 8 more points a game, and he's on a team with a 20-33 record. Andre Wiggins averages 0.6 less shots a game but averages 1.2 more points than CJ, and like CJ he's an option 1b. Brandon Ingram averages 1 less shot that CJ but scores 3 more points. Demar Derozan averages 3 less shots but scores 2 more points.

CJ has had 1st option FGA's for over 4 seasons; he's had a 1st option usage rate; he's had 1st option opportunity to create his own offense. It's not an apples to oranges set of comparisons.

Would you want Kemba, Kyrie, or half of those guys to play next to Dame? Cause I sure wouldn't I think we’d say the same things about them that we do about CJ.

no, I would not want Kemba or Kyrie paired with Dame but that does not mean I can't recognize both are better players that CJ. Of the first two lists of names I posted above, I'd much rather have Bradley Beal, Jimmy Butler, Khris Middleton, Victor Oladipo, Ben Simmons, Zach Lavine, Malcolm Brogdon, or Jaylen Brown than CJ. They would all be better fits and just about all are more talented, especially when defense is part of the equation.

of the rest, I'd rather have almost all more than CJ, then trade them because they' have better trade value

Problem with two guards like Dame and CJ who need the ball to be effective is there is only one ball. Weve seen WB and Harden have really good months, and really good games buts rare they’re both good at the same time, because its hard and one guy usually has to take a step back for the other.

OK...but I'm not buying it

it wasn't a problem for Curry and Durant; or Lebron & Kyrie; or Lebron & DWade; or Manu & Parker; or Thomas & Dumars. And it wasn't a problem for KG & Pierce, or Kobe & Shaq, or Kobe & Pau, or Magic & Worthy or Bird & McHale. Kawhi and PG13 are doing well too, and so are Lebron and AD

now, I'd imagine you'd return back to saying "2 guards" even though a guard and a SF aren't really different in any significant way. For that matter, high usage bigs and a guard create a pretty similar equation in terms of ball demand

what those example show, at least to me, is having only one ball isn't the problem. NOT having two elite players is the problem. Dame's name fits with those other names, even if toward the bottom of the list. CJ has no business being considered within 7 zip-codes of those players. All those other pairings complemented each other; they brought different skills into the equation, and Thomas/Dumars was the only pairing of players close to the same size. Dame and CJ are way too redundant compared to those other duo's

all this discussion really does is highlight how logical trading CJ would be. The CJ fans could anticipate CJ going superstar on another team, while Blazer fans can anticipate a much needed change in direction

 

[wizenheimer]

God you're obsessed.

I think this is about the 7th or 8th time you've tried to define me personally in negative terms. You might want to check the definition of obsession

 

[illmatic99]

I think this is about the 7th or 8th time you've tried to define me personally in negative terms. You might want to check the definition of obsession

he's not wrong. you bring up how much CJ sucks in every thread.

 

[wizenheimer]

he's not wrong. you bring up how much CJ sucks in every thread.

where did I say CJ sucks?

what I did was make a case why he would not be a "definite" all star in the Eastern Conference? a claim somebody else made

 

[wizenheimer]

what he said in that interview, that he was still sore yesterday and it was a 'significant' injury might mean he'll miss a few more games than hoped

 

[Blazinaway]

what he said in that interview, that he was still sore yesterday and it was a 'significant' injury might mean he'll miss a few more games than hoped

groin injuries can really linger and take time to fully heal, and coming back too early males it more likely to injure it further - happened to me 15 or so years ago

 

[kjironman1]

what he said in that interview, that he was still sore yesterday and it was a 'significant' injury might mean he'll miss a few more games than hoped

Sounds to me like you will get at least a few games to see how CJ responds when Dame is injured. He usually does pretty well. For the most part people usually are glad we have him.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

CJ averages more FGA's than most of those guys on the list and has for the last 4 years. This season, CJ is 15th in FGA and 5 of the guys above him average less than 1 more shot a game.

Bradley Beal is 3rd in the NBA in FGA's/game at 22.0. That's 3 more shots than CJ but he averages 8 more points a game, and he's on a team with a 20-33 record. Andre Wiggins averages 0.6 less shots a game but averages 1.2 more points than CJ, and like CJ he's an option 1b. Brandon Ingram averages 1 less shot that CJ but scores 3 more points. Demar Derozan averages 3 less shots but scores 2 more points.

CJ has had 1st option FGA's for over 4 seasons; he's had a 1st option usage rate; he's had 1st option opportunity to create his own offense. It's not an apples to oranges set of comparisons.



no, I would not want Kemba or Kyrie paired with Dame but that does not mean I can't recognize both are better players that CJ. Of the first two lists of names I posted above, I'd much rather have Bradley Beal, Jimmy Butler, Khris Middleton, Victor Oladipo, Ben Simmons, Zach Lavine,Eric Bledsoe Malcolm Brogdon, or Jaylen Brown than CJ. They would all be better fits and just about all are more talented, especially when defense is part of the equation.

of the rest, I'd rather have almost all more than CJ, then trade them because they' have better trade value



OK...but I'm not buying it

it wasn't a problem for Curry and Durant; or Lebron & Kyrie; or Lebron & DWade; or Manu & Parker; or Thomas & Dumars. And it wasn't a problem for KG & Pierce, or Kobe & Shaq, or Kobe & Pau, or Magic & Worthy or Bird & McHale. Kawhi and PG13 are doing well too, and so are Lebron and AD

now, I'd imagine you'd return back to saying "2 guards" even though a guard and a SF aren't really different in any significant way. For that matter, high usage bigs and a guard create a pretty similar equation in terms of ball demand

what those example show, at least to me, is having only one ball isn't the problem. NOT having two elite players is the problem. Dame's name fits with those other names, even if toward the bottom of the list. CJ has no business being considered within 7 zip-codes of those players. All those other pairings complemented each other; they brought different skills into the equation, and Thomas/Dumars was the only pairing of players close to the same size. Dame and CJ are way too redundant compared to those other duo's

all this discussion really does is highlight how logical trading CJ would be. The CJ fans could anticipate CJ going superstar on another team, while Blazer fans can anticipate a much needed change in direction

You realize you just listed a bunch of HoFers to say oh they figured it out! I dont think anyones saying CJ’s gonna turn into, Lebron, Wade, Magic, Worthy, Curry, KD, Kawhi, AD, IT, or Joe Dumars, thats called a strawman argument, no one is arguing CJ’s going to go over their and turn into a hall of fame player, they’re saying his skillset is better off as a ball dominant lead guard, and that in the east he’d be much closer to an allstar then he is here. Obviously CJ’s not as talented as those guys...

Also your list is kind of funny to me of who you’d rather have because you basically you want anyone not named CJ because they’re all just better. I think the truth is you just really don't like CJ’s game, how he fits, and the Dame + CJ back court and you’re having a bit of a grass is greener mentality with him. Which is perfectly fine and reasonable to some extent, we all have some bias’, but its going to be hard to really discuss what CJ’s worth if you come at it like basically every starter in the east is better than him. Familiarity breeds contempt I guess.

NO shouldnt of given that ridiculous contract IMO but also I think he’s better than many of the guys you’re saying are just better than him, a lot of those guys have proven basically nothing.

 

[e_blazer]

what he said in that interview, that he was still sore yesterday and it was a 'significant' injury might mean he'll miss a few more games than hoped

I believe he actually said it was a “legit” injury rather than “significant”.

 

[wizenheimer]

I believe he actually said it was a “legit” injury rather than “significant”.

I couldn't remember exactly what he said. I knew it was something like that so I used the single quote mark. Thanks for the correction. I'm guessing legit isn't as bad as significant?

 

[wizenheimer]

You realize you just listed a bunch of HoFers to say oh they figured it out! I dont think anyones saying CJ’s gonna turn into, Lebron, Wade, Magic, Worthy, Curry, KD, Kawhi, AD, IT, or Joe Dumars, thats called a strawman argument, no one is arguing CJ’s going to go over their and turn into a hall of fame player, they’re saying his skillset is better off as a ball dominant lead guard, and that in the east he’d be much closer to an allstar then he is here. Obviously CJ’s not as talented as those guys...

you're moving around the field a lot. I brought up those other pairings in response to the idea that there is only one ball and two ball-dominant players are going to have issues. Plenty of other pairings have not had any real issues playing together. But if you're going to say that the ability to co-exist with one ball is due to elite talent working together, then that goes directly to what I'm arguing

Also your list is kind of funny to me of who you’d rather have because you basically you want anyone not named CJ because they’re all just better. I think the truth is you just really don't like CJ’s game, how he fits, and the Dame + CJ back court and you’re having a bit of a grass is greener mentality with him. Which is perfectly fine and reasonable to some extent, we all have some bias’, but its going to be hard to really discuss what CJ’s worth if you come at it like basically every starter in the east is better than him. Familiarity breeds contempt I guess.

NO shouldnt of given that ridiculous contract IMO but also I think he’s better than many of the guys you’re saying are just better than him, a lot of those guys have proven basically nothing.

I'm noticing you're spending a lot of time criticizing the list I made on a generic level, but you're not arguing any specifics, so I'll make it a little simpler...here are the players I said were ahead of CJ:

Kemba Walker
Kyrie Irving
Bradley Beal
Jimmy Butler
Trae Young
Khris Middleton
Victor Oladipo
Ben Simmons
Zach Lavine

I said that in response to somebody saying CJ would be a "definite" all star in the east. So then, tell me which players on that list is CJ definitely better than. As far as I can tell, the only two you might make a case that CJ is even close to are Lavine and Oladipo, and the only reason Oladipo would be there is because of coming back from injury. Do you disagree?

let's me also be clear...the reason I said I'd rather have most of those other players more than CJ is because of fit with Dame (and defense). I just don't think the Dame/CJ 'it's-my-turn-it's-your-turn-now' mesh is anywhere close to optimal; and that's setting aside any talent differentials[/QUOTE]

 

[e_blazer]

I couldn't remember exactly what he said. I knew it was something like that so I used the single quote mark. Thanks for the correction. I'm guessing legit isn't as bad as significant?

I don't know. Slightly different connotation, perhaps? Legit, as in the injury is something that legitimately keeps him from being able to play. Significant, to me, would imply that it is something that might be more long lasting. I guess we'll find out in the next week or so.

 

[wizenheimer]

Sounds to me like you will get at least a few games to see how CJ responds when Dame is injured. He usually does pretty well. For the most part people usually are glad we have him.

I expect CJ to put up big numbers with Dame out. He generally does. And Portland's schedule is pretty easy so they should log some wins. Only 2 of the next 10 games are against teams with winning records

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

you're moving around the field a lot. I brought up those other pairings in response to the idea that there is only one ball and two ball-dominant players are going to have issues. Plenty of other pairings have not had any real issues playing together. But if you're going to say that the ability to co-exist with one ball is due to elite talent working together, then that goes directly to what I'm arguing



I'm noticing you're spending a lot of time criticizing the list I made on a generic level, but you're not arguing any specifics, so I'll make it a little simpler...here are the players I said were ahead of CJ:

Kemba Walker
Kyrie Irving
Bradley Beal
Jimmy Butler
Trae Young
Khris Middleton
Victor Oladipo
Ben Simmons
Zach Lavine

I said that in response to somebody saying CJ would be a "definite" all star in the east. So then, tell me which players on that list is CJ definitely better than. As far as I can tell, the only two you might make a case that CJ is even close to are Lavine and Oladipo, and the only reason Oladipo would be there is because of coming back from injury. Do you disagree?

let's me also be clear...the reason I said I'd rather have most of those other players more than CJ is because of fit with Dame (and defense). I just don't think the Dame/CJ 'it's-my-turn-it's-your-turn-now' mesh is anywhere close to optimal; and that's setting aside any talent differentials

I think CJ is better than Lavine, Middleton, Oladipo and is on par with most of the other guys on your list. Beal and Kemba and even young Havent really actually done that much other then put up numbers for garbage teams which is precisely what I think CJ would do. Ben Simmons has like a 100% different game then CJ so Im not sure what to do with those two.

 

[kjironman1]

I expect CJ to put up big numbers with Dame out. He generally does. And Portland's schedule is pretty easy so they should log some wins. Only 2 of the next 10 games are against teams with winning records

So you expect "Big Numbers" and they should "Log some wins" because the teams they will be playing are weak teams? Lets put it this way. Right now with Lillard, Hood, Collins, Nurk and Little on the injury list the Blazers are a pretty weak team. It would take a herculean effort by CJ to "Log some wins". Maybe even an All-Star type effort. But i guess if you "Expect" wins nothing will make you happy with his effort at this point.

 

[wizenheimer]

I think CJ is better than Lavine, Middleton, Oladipo and is on par with most of the other guys on your list. Beal and Kemba and even young Havent really actually done that much other then put up numbers for garbage teams which is precisely what I think CJ would do. Ben Simmons has like a 100% different game then CJ so Im not sure what to do with those two.

ok then, that's why we disagree so much on this

a comparison:



now, I entered Oladipo's numbers from his last healthy season and of course there's no guarantee he will get back to that level. But then there's no guarantee that CJ will bloom as a #1 option over the course of 82 games either. What he does in a 6 or 7 game stretch isn't the same as carrying that burden for a season

notice that CJ is dead last, by sizable gaps, in PER, TS%, FT rate, assist rate, winshare/48, box plus/minus, and value over replacement. CJ is best at turnover rate and that's it

but him being the main guy in Charlotte is going to turn all that water into wine....apparently

 

[wizenheimer]

So you expect "Big Numbers" and they should "Log some wins" because the teams they will be playing are weak teams? Lets put it this way. Right now with Lillard, Hood, Collins, Nurk and Little on the injury list the Blazers are a pretty weak team. It would take a herculean effort by CJ to "Log some wins". Maybe even an All-Star type effort. But i guess if you "Expect" wins nothing will make you happy with his effort at this point.

I don't know how long Dame will be out or if Little will be back. Dame might miss a couple of weeks. Portland was winning games with all those other guys being out, the 'only' difference is no Dame. Looking at the schedule, yeah, I expect a few wins, but then, I haven't been saying CJ is a scrub, I've been saying he's not an all-star. There's a lot of room between those two levels

 

[hoopsjock]

I think CJ is better than Lavine, Middleton, Oladipo and is on par with most of the other guys on your list. Beal and Kemba and even young Havent really actually done that much other then put up numbers for garbage teams which is precisely what I think CJ would do. Ben Simmons has like a 100% different game then CJ so Im not sure what to do with those two.

Wow, you must not have seen Middleton play this year and didn't look up his stats.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

ok then, that's why we disagree so much on this

a comparison:

View attachment 29897

now, I entered Oladipo's numbers from his last healthy season and of course there's no guarantee he will get back to that level. But then there's no guarantee that CJ will bloom as a #1 option over the course of 82 games either. What he does in a 6 or 7 game stretch isn't the same as carrying that burden for a season

notice that CJ is dead last, by sizable gaps, in PER, TS%, FT rate, assist rate, winshare/48, box plus/minus, and value over replacement. CJ is best at turnover rate and that's it

but him being the main guy in Charlotte is going to turn all that water into wine....apparently

Beals team sucks, middleton is like the third option, you say CJ doesnt play against defenses dont pay attention to him. Well hate to break it to you but when teams play the Bucks they arent breaking form to stop Middleton over Bledsoe or Giannis. Zachs team sucks, Youngs team sucks and the Pacers hardly seem to have missed VO. If those guys were all so good their teams wouldnt struggle so much in a crappy conference in a sport where yes one guy can make a huge difference.
Yes I think a team that let CJ play according to his strengths would make CJ look better. Just like all those other teams building their offenses around there “stars” make them look better.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Wow, you must not have seen Middleton play this year and didn't look up his stats.

I have seen both, and its close between him and Bledsoe for who is 2nd / 3rd best player but they play in a system thats perfect for them with the guy who will probably be mvp again. Not all that impressed.

 

[hoopsjock]

Beals team sucks, middleton is like the third option, you say CJ doesnt play against defenses dont pay attention to him. Well hate to break it to you but when teams play the Bucks they arent breaking form to stop Middleton over Bledsoe or Giannis. Zachs team sucks, Youngs team sucks and the Pacers hardly seem to have missed VO. If those guys were all so good their teams wouldnt struggle so much in a crappy conference in a sport where yes one guy can make a huge difference.
Yes I think a team that let CJ play according to his strengths would make CJ look better. Just like all those other teams building their offenses around there “stars” make them look better.

I forgot how you put it but didn't you basically say earlier in the season that the team is Dame and not much else talent when other's were arguing that a team with Dame, CJ, and Whiteside should be better than they are?

As for Beal, without anyone close to the list you guys are talking about the Wizards aren't really that much worse than the Blazers.

 

[hoopsjock]

I have seen both, and its close between him and Bledsoe for who is 2nd / 3rd best player but they play in a system thats perfect for them with the guy who will probably be mvp again. Not all that impressed.

Huh? Bledsoe has been decent this year but he's not even in the same zip code as Middleton.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I forgot how you put it but didn't you basically say earlier in the season that the team is Dame and not much else talent when other's were arguing that a team with Dame, CJ, and Whiteside should be better than they are?

As for Beal, without anyone close to the list you guys are talking about the Wizards aren't really that much worse than the Blazers.

Yeah, to me this year has proved CJ’s not that great, but I dont think any of those other guys are that great either. I think the Blazers basically are Dame and bleh. However I think in CJ’s case he would “look” better somewhere else and put up better numbers somewhere else too. So Im not arguing that CJ is some elite talent just that he fits in pretty well with a bunch of other b and b-minus high volume guys.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Huh? Bledsoe has been decent this year but he's not even in the same zip code as Middleton.

I get stuck watching a lot of milwaukee games and is my reaction to them.
Edit: maybe a lot is an exaggeration but they’re on tv quite a bit.

 

[hoopsjock]

I get stuck watching a lot of milwaukee games and is my reaction to them.
Edit: maybe a lot is an exaggeration but they’re on tv quite a bit.

I know you don't like Giannis but they're 46-8 and you're calling them meh? Okay then!