Dame injury

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tlongII said:
CJ is a great player. I just don't get the hate for him on here. People say he doesn't pass but he had 10 assists last night for crying out loud.
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"Great" lol. Not even close to great, how can you be great if you have never been an All Star? He can be a great scorer dometomes, in all other aspects of the Game he's average or way below average
 
tlongII said:
CJ is a great player. I just don't get the hate for him on here. People say he doesn't pass but he had 10 assists last night for crying out loud.
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Huh? Box score says he had 5.
https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401161454

CupWizier said:
Because Booker was the next highest votes (except for the joke of Caruso). duh
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My point in bringing it up, is I'm wondering if Dame doesn't view CJ as even being close to an all-star talent.

With how careful he is in propping up his own teammates - he could've easily stated something like "There's a lot of talented guards in the western conference. This injury opens up a spot for one more to make it like Booker or CJ. With the season Booker is having, he'd be my choice."

I could easily be reading too much into this, however, its interesting to me that it appears that CJ wasn't even a consideration in Dame's mind.
 
Question: would you take CJ over a healthy Brandon Roy? How about over Terry Porter?

I would take either of those guys over CJ. If that makes you want to scream "HATR!" at me, maybe you need to stop and take a deep breath. :dry:
 
The only reason CJ is still here is because he is Dame's best friend

 
tester551 said:
Huh? Box score says he had 5.
https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401161454


My point in bringing it up, is I'm wondering if Dame doesn't view CJ as even being close to an all-star talent.

With how careful he is in propping up his own teammates - he could've easily stated something like "There's a lot of talented guards in the western conference. This injury opens up a spot for one more to make it like Booker or CJ. With the season Booker is having, he'd be my choice."

I could easily be reading too much into this, however, its interesting to me that it appears that CJ wasn't even a consideration in Dame's mind.
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I have heard Lillard on multiple occasions praise McCollum so yes, I think you are reading more into it as Booker was the next logical choice and thus the most logical most realistic reason why Lillard mentioned him. I find it amazing how almost every thread player related turns into some sort of putting McCollum down.
 
tester551 said:
Huh? Box score says he had 5.
https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401161454


My point in bringing it up, is I'm wondering if Dame doesn't view CJ as even being close to an all-star talent.

With how careful he is in propping up his own teammates - he could've easily stated something like "There's a lot of talented guards in the western conference. This injury opens up a spot for one more to make it like Booker or CJ. With the season Booker is having, he'd be my choice."

I could easily be reading too much into this, however, its interesting to me that it appears that CJ wasn't even a consideration in Dame's mind.
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Not only are you reading too much into this, you're trying to put words into Damian Lillard's mouth.
There's nothing to see here.
 
hoopsjock said:
If he's so great why didn't his own teammate and best friend recommend he take his place in the All-Star game?
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Because he didn't deserve to be on the All Star team. Not every great player gets to be on the All Star team. What CJ did against the Nuggets in game 7 showed me he is a great player. An average to good player would not be able to do that.
 
tlongII said:
What CJ did against the Nuggets in game 7 showed me he is a great player.
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Not hating on CJ at all, because I think he is a very good player.

But, Myers Leonard has gone off in game 4 of the conference playoffs against the Warriors without getting the touches or usage that CJ had against the Nuggets - and I would not call him great either.

Single game performances are not why someone is a great player. CJ's career has shown him to be a very good player, imho. Dame's career has shown him to be a great player. There is a difference.
 
andalusian said:
Not hating on CJ at all, because I think he is a very good player.

But, Myers Leonard has gone off in game 4 of the conference playoffs against the Warriors without getting the touches or usage that CJ had against the Nuggets - and I would not call him great either.

Single game performances are not why someone is a great player. CJ's career has shown him to be a very good player, imho. Dame's career has shown him to be a great player. There is a difference.
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Comparing McCollum's NBA resume to Leonards NBA resume is like comparing a Ruth Chris steak to a Big Mac though. I also don't understand all the praise for Leonard this year as his numbers are basically the same as his last year here except he is playing almost 6 more minutes per game. His per 36 was far better last year than this year and last year wasn't even Leonard's best year in Portland (not saying your take is this but those that have been praising Leonard this year)
 
tlongII said:
CJ is a great player. I just don't get the hate for him on here. People say he doesn't pass but he had 10 assists last night for crying out loud.
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Where did you see 10?

I see he had 5 assists last night, in a 9/25 shooting performance.

In fact, the last time he had 10 assists in a game was on November 21 against Milwaukee (Lillard was out). That was also the only time this season.

The last time CJ even shot 50% from the floor in a game was January 26 against Indiana, a stretch of 9 games. During which time he's averaged 19 shot attempts per night and a relatively meager 3.4 assists.

Simply put, the guy is a chucker of the worst order and passing for him is an unnatural tendency that has to damn near be forced out of him. What's worse is that he has shown himself to be capable of putting the offense on his back, particularly when Dame has missed time, so we know it's not strictly a talent issue with CJ.
 
CupWizier said:
Comparing McCollum's NBA resume to Leonards NBA resume is like comparing a Ruth Chris steak to a Big Mac though.
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But this is exactly what I am not doing. I am pointing that based on a single game we can call ML great just as CJ was based on a single game in this very same thread. That's the point I am making.
 
Five Second Violation said:
Where did you see 10?

I see he had 5 assists last night, in a 9/25 shooting performance.

In fact, the last time he had 10 assists in a game was on November 21 against Milwaukee (Lillard was out). That was also the only time this season.

The last time CJ even shot 50% from the floor in a game was January 26 against Indiana, a stretch of 9 games. During which time he's averaged 19 shot attempts per night and a relatively meager 3.4 assists.

Simply put, the guy is a chucker of the worst order and passing for him is an unnatural tendency that has to damn near be forced out of him. What's worse is that he has shown himself to be capable of putting the offense on his back, particularly when Dame has missed time, so we know it's not strictly a talent issue with CJ.
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Apparently my vision was compromised when I saw 10. However, I would argue that CJ does what his coaches ask him to do. I believe he is asked to be a scorer, not a facilitator. If they asked him to be a facilitator I think he would be very good at it.
 
tlongII said:
Apparently my vision was compromised when I saw 10. However, I would argue that CJ does what his coaches ask him to do. I believe he is asked to be a scorer, not a facilitator. If they asked him to be a facilitator I think he would be very good at it.
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I think you are 100% right. Same with Whiteside chasing EVERYTHING. It could be interpreted as stat hoggery, but I've heard him say in interviews that the coaching staff has told him to do so.

I like that you seem to like CJ so much. It kind of surprises me for some reason.
 
Propagandist said:
About Caruso?!? I was super kidding. About Booker? Not kidding.
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Booker is a nice player, but I wonder how he would perform as a secondary option as that's the roll he would have here and he has been a primary scorer and ball handler at Phoenix. Booker isn't exactly known for his defense and is hurt a lot.
 
CupWizier said:
Booker is a nice player, but I wonder how he would perform as a secondary option as that's the roll he would have here and he has been a primary scorer and ball handler at Phoenix. Booker isn't exactly known for his defense and is hurt a lot.
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Honestly, I think Booker probably would benefit playing with the Blazers. I think of him in CJ's role. I haven't seen anything in him that makes me think he'd chafe in that. I think Dame is respected enough around the league that there'd be few players in the league that have a problem with him being the alpha.

They'd destroy opponents. No one could handle them, both great shooters, both unselfish. I think it'd be the best backcourt tandem in the NBA. I think they'd help each other's longevity, too, because neither of them would have to take the poundings they take now. You'd kill double-teams.

The Suns wouldn't make the trade, nor should they. But in a fantasy world, where you somehow essentially keep this roster together for next year but everyone is healthy and you replace CJ with Booker. Yeesh.
 
PCmor7 said:
Honestly, I think Booker probably would benefit playing with the Blazers. I think of him in CJ's role. I haven't seen anything in him that makes me think he'd chafe in that. I think Dame is respected enough around the league that there'd be few players in the league that have a problem with him being the alpha.

They'd destroy opponents. No one could handle them, both great shooters, both unselfish. I think it'd be the best backcourt tandem in the NBA. I think they'd help each other's longevity, too, because neither of them would have to take the poundings they take now. You'd kill double-teams.

The Suns wouldn't make the trade, nor should they. But in a fantasy world, where you somehow essentially keep this roster together for next year but everyone is healthy and you replace CJ with Booker. Yeesh.
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Im not a big booker fan but CJ + however many picks we have for booker is something Id do.
 
andalusian said:
But this is exactly what I am not doing. I am pointing that based on a single game we can call ML great just as CJ was based on a single game in this very same thread. That's the point I am making.
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Oh i know and my post was pretty much in general and shouldn't have put it as a responce to you. Sorry bout that.
 
tlongII said:
CJ is a great player. I just don't get the hate for him on here. People say he doesn't pass but he had 10 assists last night for crying out loud.
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Great?

for players with 500 minutes or more, CJ ranks:

115th in PER
227th in TS%
177th in eFG%
289th in FT Rate
96th in assist rate
234th in winshares/48
196th in BPM

CJ is in the 45th percentile in isolation (55% of the league is better); the 64th percentile in PnR; the 43rd percentile in hand-off; and the 59th percentile in transition. In other words, he sucks at one-on-one and scoring unassisted baskets. But that's 63% of his offense

I'd say great players will just about crack the top-100 in nearly all those stats; and top-30 in some if not several. Hell, I'd think a good player would show up in the top-100 in a few of those. But not CJ

CJ is excellent at catch & shoot and very good at spot up. But he only attempts about 5 of his 19 FGA/game in the only two types of shots he's good at

think about this: CJ is 13th in the NBA is FGA/game; again, 13th....but he's 227th in TS%, 177th in eFG%, and 289th in FT rate. That's not great, that's just fucked up
 
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