Dame Time (for a trade)…

[e_blazer]

I don't necessarily think we would get less for him at the deadline. I think an argument can be made that teams who are close to being contenders, but are missing a piece, might be more inclined to offer more if they think he will put them over the top. Or a contending team might have an injury and could be desperate to get him. The only way I see us getting less value is if Dame got hurt. It's not like we are hearing about any great hauls for him now.

You really need an attitude adjustment. Do not allow even a hint of positivity to interfere with an overwhelmingly pessimistic Blazers worldview.

 

[Hoopguru]

Will move the pick. Not for a needle mover. Dame will then ask out at the deadline and we’ll get less value for him

What's your definition of a needle mover?

Why would Joe trade the pick for a player that wouldn't improve the team and address an area of need?

Nobody thought Gordon or Brown would be needle movers for the Denver, but it sure addressed areas of need.

 

[Mediocre Man]

What's your definition of a needle mover?

Why would Joe trade the pick for a player that wouldn't improve the team and address an area of need?

Nobody thought Gordon or Brown would be needle movers for the Denver, but it sure addressed areas of need.

All NBA type performer AT THE RIGHT POSITION.

To appease Dame and the idiot fan base that thinks we can win with him

Denver has EASILY the most dominating player in the league. Apples to oranges

 

[Natebishop3]

What's your definition of a needle mover?

Why would Joe trade the pick for a player that wouldn't improve the team and address an area of need?

Nobody thought Gordon or Brown would be needle movers for the Denver, but it sure addressed areas of need.

A needle mover on a team that's this bereft of talent has to be someone who's a top 10 talent. As good or better than Dame. That's what we need to actually compete for a championship. So in theory Zion could be that guy..... if he's healthy.

 

[Hoopguru]

A needle mover on a team that's this bereft of talent has to be someone who's a top 10 talent. As good or better than Dame. That's what we need to actually compete for a championship. So in theory Zion could be that guy..... if he's healthy.

Is Murray from the Nuggets a top 10 player? I dont think so, but he's a hell of a player on a team with 1 Super Star. TEAM...Together Everyone Accomplishes More
The day of 2 or more super thats that win it all are gone....

 

[wizenheimer]

Will move the pick. Not for a needle mover. Dame will then ask out at the deadline and we’ll get less value for him

what a surprise...you're predicting the very worst outcomes for Portland in everything they do

you're essentially guaranteeing Portland will trade the pick. Will it be before the draft or during?

 

[Natebishop3]

Is Murray from the Nuggets a top 10 player? I dont think so, but he's a hell of a player on a team with 1 Super Star. TEAM...Together Everyone Accomplishes More
The day of 2 or more super thats that win it all are gone....

I'm just going to repeat what MM said, but in a different way.

Jokic is so much better than Dame it's not even funny. Jokic should be a three time MVP. Dame hasn't won even one. Lillard is amazing at scoring, but that's literally it. He's a scorer. Jokic puts up triple doubles like they're nothing, and he does it without hurting the team like Westbrook.

Jokic is a transcendent talent.

Murray is closer to Dame than Dame is to Jokic.

 

[Gronk_Brady]

So far 54% of fans in this poll would rather trade Dame than the #3 pick if they had to choose a path.

 

[Hoopguru]

I'm just going to repeat what MM said, but in a different way.

Jokic is so much better than Dame it's not even funny. Jokic should be a three time MVP. Dame hasn't won even one. Lillard is amazing at scoring, but that's literally it. He's a scorer. Jokic puts up triple doubles like they're nothing, and he does it without hurting the team like Westbrook.

Jokic is a transcendent talent.

Murray is closer to Dame than Dame is to Jokic.

Dont disagree with that.....But Jokic alone couldn't win a championship either.

 

[Ripcity4life77]

OMG -- Nate well it had to end sometime -- we agreed so much lately but that last statement is complete BS cause it's hard to legit compare a Big to a small guard and that is the truth. They are both great PERIOD just in different ways PERIOD

This is all I am going to say cause I am already wired prepared for the worst outcome and trying my best not to lose it so will end it right now. I have nothing against you Nate granted we think different on a lot of Blazer related topics and while I do not like your opinions at times I will try and respect them and hoping vice versa.

 

[Natebishop3]

Dont disagree with that.....But Jokic alone couldn't win a championship either.

No. Definitely not. But Denver just has a much better roster than us. I'm just saying that Jokic being Jokic allows them to put a slightly lower talent next to him. He makes Murray, Gordon, and MPJ look so much better because Jokic can't be stopped. That's the real defining part of it. Jokic can't be stopped no matter what teams do. Dame can be stopped. If the team around him sucks, he can definitely be stopped. We have seen it many times. Teams just go all in on trapping and denying Dame the ball and we have repeatedly run into issues where we can't punish them for it.

 

[Natebishop3]

OMG -- Nate well it had to end sometime -- we agreed so much lately but that last statement is complete BS cause it's hard to legit compare a Big to a small guard and that is the truth. They are both great PERIOD just in different ways PERIOD

This is all I am going to say cause I am already wired prepared for the worst outcome and trying my best not to lose it so will end it right now. I have nothing against you Nate granted we think different on a lot of Blazer related topics and while I do not like your opinions at times I will try and respect them and hoping vice versa.

It's not big vs small. Jokic is just a better player. Period. He affects the game on a much higher level than Dame. If teams go all in on stopping Dame, and take the ball out of his hands, what else can Dame bring to the table? He's not a defender. He's not a rebounder. He's not a prolific passer. He's not bad at distributing but he's not on Jokic's talent in terms of passing. Neither player is a significant defender, but Jokic just has a much higher impact on the game, even when he's not scoring.

 

[Mediocre Man]

what a surprise...you're predicting the very worst outcomes for Portland in everything they do

you're essentially guaranteeing Portland will trade the pick. Will it be before the draft or during?

If Bert Kolde weren’t in charge, I’d be singing a different tune

 

[Mediocre Man]

OMG -- Nate well it had to end sometime -- we agreed so much lately but that last statement is complete BS cause it's hard to legit compare a Big to a small guard and that is the truth. They are both great PERIOD just in different ways PERIOD

This is all I am going to say cause I am already wired prepared for the worst outcome and trying my best not to lose it so will end it right now. I have nothing against you Nate granted we think different on a lot of Blazer related topics and while I do not like your opinions at times I will try and respect them and hoping vice versa.

Murray is so much closer to Dame than Dame to Jokic

 

[andalusian]

It's not big vs small. Jokic is just a better player. Period. He affects the game on a much higher level than Dame. If teams go all in on stopping Dame, and take the ball out of his hands, what else can Dame bring to the table? He's not a defender. He's not a rebounder. He's not a prolific passer. He's not bad at distributing but he's not on Jokic's talent in terms of passing. Neither player is a significant defender, but Jokic just has a much higher impact on the game, even when he's not scoring.

I do not disagree with the fact that Jokic is a better player, I absolutely disagree that it is not a big vs. small. The main difference between Dame's impact on games vs. Jokic's impact is the variability. When Dame is on, with his range and speed combination, he is the 2nd most fearsome offense in the league (this side of Curry) and he can win you a game with his other-worldly offense without anything else. But, when he is not or when the opposition has multiple big and very athletic defenders - they can shut him down. Jokic does not have the games where he can shoot brimstones like Beelzebub on an acid bender, but his size allows him to be the rebounder that he is even when his offense is not going, his size allows him to see the floor so much better for these extra special passes. Size in the NBA helps, it's not even a question. Same level of talent, you take the bigger guy every day of the week and twice on Tuesday, it's really that simple.

 

[wizenheimer]

If Bert Kolde weren’t in charge, I’d be singing a different tune

understandable

but for weeks now you've been essentially guaranteeing the Blazers were going to trade the pick. I was just curious what you think the timing of that trade will be

also...Kolde is a Vulcan and they pinch pennies; we all know that. A 3rd pick will average about 10-11M/year on a 4 year rookie scale. About 40-45M for the next 4 years. Paul George will make 94M over the next 2 years; Zion will make over 190M over the next 5 years; Jaylen Brown could make 300M over the next 6 years. I'd wonder why a head Vulcan would be pushing for the way more expensive options rather than a rookie scale contract

 

[Ripcity4life77]

Yeah Andalusian said it way better then I did -- I kept it too simple -- but I am done on this topic cause we have way more pressing issues then who is better and such.

 

[Natebishop3]

I do not disagree with the fact that Jokic is a better player, I absolutely disagree that it is not a big vs. small. The main difference between Dame's impact on games vs. Jokic's impact is the variability. When Dame is on, with his range and speed combination, he is the 2nd most fearsome offense in the league (this side of Curry) and he can win you a game with his other-worldly offense without anything else. But, when he is not or when the opposition has multiple big and very athletic defenders - they can shut him down. Jokic does not have the games where he can shoot brimstones like Beelzebub on an acid bender, but his size allows him to be the rebounder that he is even when his offense is not going, his size allows him to see the floor so much better for these extra special passes. Size in the NBA helps, it's not even a question. Same level of talent, you take the bigger guy every day of the week and twice on Tuesday, it's really that simple.

Height definitely comes into it, but usually when you're comparing a guard to a center it's stuff like blocks.... rim protection... things like that. When people say big vs small I think they're saying center vs guard. Would we say big vs small if we're talking 6'7 Melo Ball vs Dame? Or 6'9 LeBron vs Dame? I'm fine separating out stats that don't make sense to compare, but Jokic definitely plays in the same world that Dame plays in because he runs their offense so much.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah Andalusian said it way better then I did -- I kept it too simple -- but I am done on this topic cause we have way more pressing issues then who is better and such.

Well, personally I find comparing stars to be pointless, but when people want to look at Denver as a template for building around Dame we have to look at the foundation of each team. That's Jokic and Dame.

 

[wizenheimer]

I do not disagree with the fact that Jokic is a better player, I absolutely disagree that it is not a big vs. small. The main difference between Dame's impact on games vs. Jokic's impact is the variability. When Dame is on, with his range and speed combination, he is the 2nd most fearsome offense in the league (this side of Curry) and he can win you a game with his other-worldly offense without anything else. But, when he is not or when the opposition has multiple big and very athletic defenders - they can shut him down. Jokic does not have the games where he can shoot brimstones like Beelzebub on an acid bender, but his size allows him to be the rebounder that he is even when his offense is not going, his size allows him to see the floor so much better for these extra special passes. Size in the NBA helps, it's not even a question. Same level of talent, you take the bigger guy every day of the week and twice on Tuesday, it's really that simple.

great post and it's very true
******************************************

just to assuage my Olshey hate, I'll remind everybody what Olshey thought was a great idea for a starting unit:

6'2 - Dame
6'3 - CJ
6'3 - Powell
6'7 - RoCo
6'11 - Nurkic

Olshey didn't want no stinking height

 

[KingSpeed]

great post and it's very true
******************************************

just to assuage my Olshey hate, I'll remind everybody what Olshey thought was a great idea for a starting unit:

6'2 - Dame
6'3 - CJ
6'3 - Powell
6'7 - RoCo
6'11 - Nurkic

Olshey didn't want no stinking height

That unit was very good offensively and outscorerd Denver in the 2021 series.

 

[Natebishop3]

great post and it's very true
******************************************

just to assuage my Olshey hate, I'll remind everybody what Olshey thought was a great idea for a starting unit:

6'2 - Dame
6'3 - CJ
6'3 - Powell
6'7 - RoCo
6'11 - Nurkic

Olshey didn't want no stinking height

The original post said A big (aka a center) vs a small guard. Do you think the fact that Jokic is a big man is what makes him better than Dame?

 

[Mediocre Man]

understandable

but for weeks now you've been essentially guaranteeing the Blazers were going to trade the pick. I was just curious what you think the timing of that trade will be

also...Kolde is a Vulcan and they pinch pennies; we all know that. A 3rd pick will average about 10-11M/year on a 4 year rookie scale. About 40-45M for the next 4 years. Paul George will make 94M over the next 2 years; Zion will make over 190M over the next 5 years; Jaylen Brown could make 300M over the next 6 years. I'd wonder why a head Vulcan would be pushing for the way more expensive options rather than a rookie scale contract

I believe it will be after the pick is made, but tonight. Essentially the Blazers will be drafting for someone

How much is Dame worth to Portland?

 

[wizenheimer]

The original post said A big (aka a center) vs a small guard. Do you think the fact that Jokic is a big man is what makes him better than Dame?

yes

how many MVP's would Jokic win if he was 6'2?

 

[Pinwheel1]

I believe it will be after the pick is made, but tonight. Essentially the Blazers will be drafting for someone

How much is Dame worth to Portland?

Hard to say without knowing how much the return for Dame is worth to Portland.

 

[Natebishop3]

yes

how many MVP's would Jokic win if he was 6'2?

That's not what he said. He said A BIG.

Do we call Durant "a big?"

Do we call LeBron "a big?"

I'm not talking about height. I'm talking about position. Jokic might play center, but he doesn't play the game like any center I have ever seen. He just happens to be chubby and slow, otherwise he'd probably be a forward.

 

[wizenheimer]

Hard to say without knowing how much the return for Dame is worth to Portland.

I don't think MM cares much about the return for Dame. He seems to just want him gone

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't think MM cares much about the return for Dame. He seems to just want him gone

I don't think that's true at all. I think MM thinks it's futile to try to build around Dame.

Are the suitors for Dame or the assets they can offer going to change between July 10th and the trade deadline?

 

[wizenheimer]

Are the suitors for Dame or the assets they can offer going to change between July 10th and the trade deadline?

they very well might be better at the trade deadline

 

[blazerkor]

I might regret asking but what do you do to get "all of my crazy out"?

I don't think anything gets all of my crazy out but the meltdown that I had on multiple threads yesterday definitely calmed me down about the draft. There are a lot of ways today can go and now I'm just enjoying the ride.