Dame unfollows the Blazers on IG

[Strenuus]

Have deleted the back and forth personal barbs from Julius and Bones (and one from RR7 that had a quote of it).

Keep it civil. I don't want to hear how one is a mod and one isn't. Blah blah, they both got posts deleted. If I missed any, let me know.

 

[BIG Q]

If you preach loyalty within a two party relationship and then that other party isn't loyal to you, then what? Because that's how I and anyone who takes Dame's side in it looks at it.

Dame is entirely responsible? Do you feel like you have the full picture? Because if you don't, then how do you know who's entirely responsible for anything? Harden just got fined for saying Morey lied so it's not like Dame is about to do the same with the NBA already on his case. I think people would understand Dame's side of things more if we actually got to hear his side.

Cronin knew this was coming. All his moves have lined up with the expectation of a Dame trade and went against what Dame wanted because Cronin wanted to go the youth route but I don't think the organization wanted to own it. So he was saying he and Dame has a good dialogue and he was committed to building around him right up until Dame blindsided him with his trade request... right.

Joe owes the same loyalty to Dame as he does every player on the roster;

To be loyal to them as long as it is congruent with the wishes of the owner. I am sure that means doing what is best for the Portland Trailblazers. Throwing away prime draft picks that can produce promising young players for older vets who do not even want to be in Portland and are being traded at a premium is not in the best interest of Blazers Inc. That is where Joe's loyalty to Dame ends. Dame can not expect Joe to be loyal to Dame when it is harmful to the team. That is silly. Sure, Joe said he would try to build around Dame. He never said he would agree to be extorted. It seems everyone wanted to extort a kings ransom or some players would not agree to extend to stay in Portland. Joe had to pass. He then told Dame he was unable to get the vets Dame wants. I am sure he has told Dame that he is unable to get fair value for Dame himself given the position he has put the team in with his Miami or bust stance. It will work out eventually. I put no stock in someone claiming to have inside info if they do not disclose who said it and what it is. That was said in confidence and should stay there. Many here try to pass off their own theories as the truth. Doesn't work that way. And I do not believe Joe ever said Dame blindsided him. Although Miami or bust was certainly a punch in the face, but that is my opinion.

 

[Idog1976]

It has nothing to do with me being ok with giving Dame/Goodwin/Riley what they want. It's all about me not buying your theory that the Blazers would be better off excluding a possible trade partner, even if they could produce that best possible return. There is ZERO evidence that if the Heat offered the Blazers the best return possible and they took it, that it would have any impact on Scoot, Sharpe, or any future deals. Just like I pushed back at the opposite theory that if we don't honor Dame's wishes that Scoot/Sharpe would be less likely to re-sign in the future.

I'm 100% fine waiting as long as needed to maximize the return. I'm not ok reducing the number of trade partners we'll work with.

Ah, that’s fair enough. I still disagree on the point that you encourage this behavior of not honoring contracts by rewarding said behavior. It’s not hard to extrapolate what I’ve said and many others have had similar reasoning. You can’t point to “evidence” when prognosticating about current trends impacting future behaviors. That is an impossible and shortsighted standard.

Also, all things being equal trade value you don’t trade to Miami. Unless Miami’s offer is considerably better I wouldn’t consider them as an option. If Miami does produce the best offer by say next summer’s trade window I would think ling and hard about it before pulling the trigger. I absolutely would not take their offer before the trade deadline, or even next summer. We are in zero rush (first stages of rebuilding), and maximizing trade value and potential long term implications of the trade (Miami/Goodwin model becoming the norm which would disproportionately effect small/undesirable markets of course) are of paramount importance.

I think you’re not seeing the big picture to dismiss out of hand that this becomes the norm in the league due to our actions. I think it’s fair to say this trade will be of bigger importance than any trade in recent memory, and has far greater potential consequences than any trade in ages.

 

[BonesJones]

Joe owes the same loyalty to Dame as he does every player on the roster;

To be loyal to them as long as it is congruent with the wishes of the owner. I am sure that means doing what is best for the Portland Trailblazers. Throwing away prime draft picks that can produce promising young players for older vets who do not even want to be in Portland and are being traded at a premium is not in the best interest of Blazers Inc. That is where Joe's loyalty to Dame ends. Dame can not expect Joe to be loyal to Dame when it is harmful to the team. That is silly. Sure, Joe said he would try to build around Dame. He never said he would agree to be extorted. It seems everyone wanted to extort a kings ransom or some players would not agree to extend to stay in Portland. Joe had to pass. He then told Dame he was unable to get the vets Dame wants. I am sure he has told Dame that he is unable to get fair value for Dame himself given the position he has put the team in with his Miami or bust stance. It will work out eventually. I put no stock in someone claiming to have inside info if they do not disclose who said it and what it is. That was said in confidence and should stay there. Many here try to pass off their own theories as the truth. Doesn't work that way. And I do not believe Joe ever said Dame blindsided him. Although Miami or bust was certainly a punch in the face, but that is my opinion.

Joe was pretty loyal in terms of trading Norman Powell, CJ McCollum, and Gray Payton II where they wanted to be. But it's not about the team-building direction as much as it is about the way Cronin went about it (which is up for interpretation).

If Joe came out and said he wanted to go the youth route and took offers for Dame on draft night, I would've been mad but that would've been much more respectable to me than the way he's played it. He went the route that he knew (or should've known) would force Dame out but on June 26th was still saying he had a good dialogue with Dame and how he was committed to building around him. We're supposed to believe that was a true statement after an hours long meeting when Dame requested out less than a week later?

Sly had a tidbit about how Cronin was telling Dame he was working on deals for him that were actually long-dead. There's a few other things that are more than just simply choosing a direction that I think affects the viewpoints on this situation.
- Did Cronin tell Dame he'd trade the pick if it wasn't #1 to convince Dame to tank the rest of last season?
- Did Cronin actually want to trade the 3rd pick to build a winner around Dame? He said he was obligated to build a winner around Dame and said that's what he wanted.
- Did Cronin tell Dame he'd trade him where he wants to go if it ever came to this?
- Did Dame ask out privately on June 26th when he and Cronin had that long conversation? If so, did Cronin's statement afterwards force Dame to ask out publicly instead?

Some people think all these things are true including me. That's why I don't think Dame is breaking any sort of loyalty, because the way this situation was handled by the org was very bad.

Some people think they're all false and that Cronin's done nothing wrong and that Dame is screwing him.

 

[Idog1976]

Joe was pretty loyal in terms of trading Norman Powell, CJ McCollum, and Gray Payton II where they wanted to be. But it's not about the team-building direction as much as it is about the way Cronin went about it (which is up for interpretation).

If Joe came out and said he wanted to go the youth route and took offers for Dame on draft night, I would've been mad but that would've been much more respectable to me than the way he's played it. He went the route that he knew (or should've known) would force Dame out but on June 26th was still saying he had a good dialogue with Dame and how he was committed to building around him. We're supposed to believe that was a true statement after an hours long meeting when Dame requested out less than a week later?

Sly had a tidbit about how Cronin was telling Dame he was working on deals for him that were actually long-dead. There's a few other things that are more than just simply choosing a direction that I think affects the viewpoints on this situation.
- Did Cronin tell Dame he'd trade the pick if it wasn't #1 to convince Dame to tank the rest of last season?
- Did Cronin actually want to trade the 3rd pick to build a winner around Dame? He said he was obligated to build a winner around Dame and said that's what he wanted.
- Did Cronin tell Dame he'd trade him where he wants to go if it ever came to this?
- Did Dame ask out privately on June 26th when he and Cronin had that long conversation? If so, did Cronin's statement afterwards force Dame to ask out publicly instead?

Some people think all these things are true including me. That's why I don't think Dame is breaking any sort of loyalty, because the way this situation was handled by the org was very bad.

Some people think they're all false and that Cronin's done nothing wrong and that Dame is screwing him.

You forgot:

- Since Goodwin hasn’t sued Abbot for defamation or disagreed with his report, does that mean Dame cynically pushed for the extra year only the Blazers could give without a heads up of asking for a no-trade and thereby perhaps limit his money?

- Did he plan this for two years shaving years off his trade value and get an albatross on the back end contract?

- Did Dame cynically wait until minutes after his one year trade moratorium after signing said Albatross contract?

- Does Dame tacitly support the almost universally condemned poisoning of the well behavior by Goodwin to force a trade to Miami despite four years on his contract?

- Can we glean that yes he does by virtue of him not saying anything against it and keeping Goodwin in his employ?

Unlike the Cronin speculation that he turned down difference maker trades (I’ve seen nothing but a bend you over the barrel, highway robbery, by Toronto for OG report) which seems purely speculative. I believe we can logically infer that most, if not all, of what I said is true based on the fact Goodwin has neither denied, nor sued over the Abbott report unless that news broke very recently I haven’t seen it. Ergo, since that would damage Goodwin’s reputation, and Goodwin hasn’t sued, it is true. Also, OG does not make us a contender and the rumored price was far too high.

 

[BIG Q]

I do not believe Cronin said anything beyond he would do his best. When his best, whatever that was, did not produce results, he drafted players. His only other option. Cronin is in no position to make a promise. Dame knows that Joe answers to Jody. It just seems like an exercise in futility to see it any other way.

 

[riverman]

It's simple at this point, Dame doesn't want to be here so when a respectable offer is made for him, I'm sure Joe will trade him. Joe as I"ve said a few times, isn't getting fired over Goodwin's hustle playbook or Riley's low ball offer

 

[Hoopguru]

What a stupid take; Cronin is about the most anti-PR guy hire an NBA team has ever made.

Not saying he is a good or bad GM - but the notion he was hired for his public speaking skills is obviously false if you watch 2 minutes of him.

I wonder if Bones meant Joe's a corporate yes man that rubs well, regardless. I get what he's saying about a Mr. nice persona /diplomacy too.
Dame has always walked his talk, through-out his career and has never thrown anyone under the bus. Something really pissed Dame off about the direction/plan.

 

[BonesJones]

You forgot:

- Since Goodwin hasn’t sued Abbot for defamation or disagreed with his report, does that mean Dame cynically pushed for the extra year only the Blazers could give without a heads up of asking for a no-trade and thereby perhaps limit his money?

- Did he plan this for two years shaving years off his trade value and get an albatross on the back end contract?

- Did Dame cynically wait until minutes after his one year trade moratorium after signing said Albatross contract?

- Does Dame tacitly support the almost universally condemned poisoning of the well behavior by Goodwin to force a trade to Miami despite four years on his contract?

- Can we glean that yes he does by virtue of him not saying anything against it and keeping Goodwin in his employ?

Unlike the Cronin speculation that he turned down difference maker trades (I’ve seen nothing but a bend you over the barrel, highway robbery, by Toronto for OG report) which seems purely speculative. I believe we can logically infer that most, if not all, of what I said is true based on the fact Goodwin has neither denied, nor sued over the Abbott report unless that news broke very recently I haven’t seen it. Ergo, since that would damage Goodwin’s reputation, and Goodwin hasn’t sued, it is true. Also, OG does not make us a contender and the rumored price was far too high.

What report are you talking about specifically?

- If that was true, why didn't Dame demand a trade at last year's trade deadline when the organization actively got worse despite being 2.5 games out of 4th place?

- The timing of demanding a trade didn't matter because trades get agreed upon despite needing to wait until a specific date to become "official"

- Cronin chose the route that was best for the team in a lot of people's eyes. Dame's trying to choose the best path for him, and he wants to play in Miami. If Dame felt the well was already poisoned because of the things I listed as possibilities? If Cronin told Dame he'd trade him where he wants to go but proved he wasn't trustworthy, should Dame really be condemned for this?

That's the thing, there's a lot of layers to this. What I've heard will sway my opinion but won't sway yours. That's why we disagree. An agent not suing a reporter (has that ever happened?) who's been notoriously wrong in the past over a false report as a way to confirm truth doesn't make sense to me.

 

[BonesJones]

I do not believe Cronin said anything beyond he would do his best. When his best, whatever that was, did not produce results, he drafted players. His only other option. Cronin is in no position to make a promise. Dame knows that Joe answers to Jody. It just seems like an exercise in futility to see it any other way.

Cronin has admitted to having long dialogues with Dame. Jody just wanted them to stay out of the tax. That was possible in a number of hypotheticals that made the team more competitive, so why is it an exercise in futility to think Cronin might've said more than "I'll do my best" when he publicly stated more than that and didn't have his hands completely tied?

 

[HailBlazers]

I do not believe Cronin said anything beyond he would do his best. When his best, whatever that was, did not produce results, he drafted players. His only other option. Cronin is in no position to make a promise. Dame knows that Joe answers to Jody. It just seems like an exercise in futility to see it any other way.

He said he was going to push all the chips in for Dame and its debatable he actually tried hard to do so. But cant blame him when reports were demands of Scoot+Sharpe for anyone above average.

 

[BonesJones]

I wonder if Bones meant Joe's a corporate yes man that rubs well, regardless. I get what he's saying about a Mr. nice persona /diplomacy too.
Dame has always walked his talk, through-out his career and has never thrown anyone under the bus. Something really pissed Dame off about the direction/plan.

Agreed about Dame.

I don't get people seemingly arguing that Joe hasn't been good for PR. Outside of his roster moves (for some), Joe has a really good relationship with the fanbase. People take his word and think he's up-front and honest. A big part of that is because he's not some smooth-talking salesman and is a direct correlation to why Olshey was bad for PR. He was the antidote to all the damage Olshey caused. I think Cronin's been great for PR and I think the organization knew he would be.

 

[BIG Q]

He said he was going to push all the chips in for Dame and its debatable he actually tried hard to do so. But cant blame him when reports were demands of Scoot+Sharpe for anyone above average.

Correct, Joe avoided the extortion. Should never have said anything about his chips, nor should Dame have. But I do not think it is unreasonable to expect Joe to back away from the extortion. It should be a core piece of his job description.

 

[BonesJones]

Correct, Joe avoided the extortion. Should never have said anything about his chips, nor should Dame have. But I do not think it is unreasonable to expect Joe to back away from the extortion. It should be a core piece of his job description.

How is it extortion when Joe himself said he was obligated to do so and wanted to build a winner around Dame? He specifically said he would be aggressive. Sounds like Cronin extorted himself.

Dame wanted to win. The organization hadn't taken productive steps towards that in years. Hard to blame him for wanting to be competitive.

 

[Propagandist]

Obvious bias? There's obviously two sides to this story, and only Cronin's side has been heard publicly. You buy it and insult Dame without even knowing his side of things.

We haven't heard Dame's side? His mouthpieces don't count: his agent, his journalist, his mother, his cryptic smoke signals, etc?

 

[kjironman1]

That's fine that you think that way. I understand it. I would lean that direction to if I hadn't heard some stuff that I trust, and have my own opinions. Now I can't voice those without a mod popping off about "crying on YouTube like your father died" which is bullshit.

Fair enough.
I don't know anything about crying on You Tube? I kind of think you guys are passionate for sure.

 

[kjironman1]

He said he was going to push all the chips in for Dame and its debatable he actually tried hard to do so. But cant blame him when reports were demands of Scoot+Sharpe for anyone above average.

Exactly.

 

[BassPlaya]

Cronin used the "chips all in" term after taking over from the shat show that was created before him. I have zero doubt he has been trying to do just that. However, if the only deal that was available (up to the point where Dame changed the dynamics) was lopsided in the other teams favor, or it was debatable that it would get the team to the finals.....making that move would have been stupid, regardless of what is fair to Dame.

 

[Propagandist]

I’d still be down with an about face from Dame but he and his team have not dealt with this well. They’ve somehow make a newby GM look savvy and themselves amateurish.

 

[HansenYang]

I would lean that direction to if I hadn't heard some stuff that I trust, and have my own opinions.

What have you heard?
I'm sure there's stuff that you can share and keep the specifics confidential.

 

[HansenYang]

I think people would understand Dame's side of things more if we actually got to hear his side.

So what is "Dame's side of things"?

 

[Tince]

Ah, that’s fair enough. I still disagree on the point that you encourage this behavior of not honoring contracts by rewarding said behavior. It’s not hard to extrapolate what I’ve said and many others have had similar reasoning. You can’t point to “evidence” when prognosticating about current trends impacting future behaviors. That is an impossible and shortsighted standard.

Also, all things being equal trade value you don’t trade to Miami. Unless Miami’s offer is considerably better I wouldn’t consider them as an option. If Miami does produce the best offer by say next summer’s trade window I would think ling and hard about it before pulling the trigger. I absolutely would not take their offer before the trade deadline, or even next summer. We are in zero rush (first stages of rebuilding), and maximizing trade value and potential long term implications of the trade (Miami/Goodwin model becoming the norm which would disproportionately effect small/undesirable markets of course) are of paramount importance.

I think you’re not seeing the big picture to dismiss out of hand that this becomes the norm in the league due to our actions. I think it’s fair to say this trade will be of bigger importance than any trade in recent memory, and has far greater potential consequences than any trade in ages.

We agree that we can't point to evidence when pronosticating. Because of that, I tend to operate that the Blazers doing what is best for them, not the league or the off chance helping Dame may help/hurt re-signing Scoot/Sharpe.

Your "all things being equal" scenario is an interesting concept, but also totally unrealstic, as no two teams are going to have the same/equal assets to trade. One trade offer out of all the offers will be considered the best package by the oganization. I want the Blazers to go with the best package, not the package that has an off-chance of setting a negative/positive tone about players staying in Portland down the road.

I 100% see the big picture. I could argue that you're letting your emotions about the situation cloud your ability to see the big picture and want to act out of spite rather than the best interest of the organization. We agree this trade will be of biggr importance than any trae in recent memory, which is all the more reason to not limit the return by excluding a trade partner.

 

[Whyachi]

So what is "Dame's side of things"?

Dame's coach was "happy" after trading Josh Hart & GP2 and effectively cratering the season. Meaning... Lillard was the only one left in Portland's upper echelon that still wanted to win.

you can see how happy Coach Billups is in his trade deadline video. It's ALL SMILES, ya right. Long story short, it's 7 minutes of Billups talking about Cam Reddish. A filler contract player Portland had 0 intentions of resigning.

https://www.youtube.com/live/mfHSFMxxbKU?si=VJck142rRw4Op--8

 

[BonesJones]

We haven't heard Dame's side? His mouthpieces don't count: his agent, his journalist, his mother, his cryptic smoke signals, etc?

What details have been shared from any of those things?

 

[BonesJones]

What have you heard?
I'm sure there's stuff that you can share and keep the specifics confidential. I've heard stuff along the lines of what I shared below from guys on both sides (front office & Dame's camp).

- Cronin told Dame he'd trade the pick if it wasn't #1 to convince Dame to tank the rest of last season
- Cronin wanted to go young and wasn't serious about building around Dame even if there's a suitable offer.
- Cronin told Dame he'd trade him where he wants to go if it ever came to this.
- Dame asked out privately after their long meeting June 26th and wanted Cronin to stop saying he was willing to build around him. Then Cronin went against that immediately after the meeting.

I trust where this stuff comes from. There's other anecdotal stuff that I've heard that I don't trust but is along these lines. But I don't like talking about it here because doing so gets me slandered. Instead I just try to share my opinion, pose this stuff as a possibility, and have an understanding of why people don't believe it or think differently.

 

[STOMP]

That's exactly what this forum has been doing for almost two months now. I've moved past crying about Cronin and come here to see people saying wild shit about Dame unfollowing the Blazers on Instagram. Cmon now. If that was me, you wouldn't have a problem, even though it'd be doing exactly what you're talking about.

good grief man, you pointing fingers about naive posters freaking out when not having all the facts yet jumping to negative conclusions is absolutely precious. Anything else?

STOMP

 

[Tince]

This seems like a great time to restate that I still love Dame, I think he was incredibly loyal, and I think the franchise is going to take a major dip without him. This franchise has mismanaged a lot of things in the last decade and I'm certainly haven't handle this situation perfectly. Having said all that, making another mistake by "doing right by Dame" and only considering one trade partner would be the greatest mismanagment of Dame's tenure. Lastly, Dame has EVERY right to try to do whatever he can to end up in the best position for him, and conversely the Blazers should do what's best for them.

 

[STOMP]

This seems like a great time to restate that I still love Dame, I think he was incredibly loyal, and I think the franchise is going to take a major dip without him. This franchise has mismanaged a lot of things in the last decade and I'm certainly haven't handle this situation perfectly. Having said all that, making another mistake by "doing right by Dame" and only considering one trade partner would be the greatest mismanagment of Dame's tenure. Lastly, Dame has EVERY right to try to do whatever he can to end up in the best position for him, and conversely the Blazers should do what's best for them.

Very reasonable. I would say it looks like at least some of the grossest mismanagements during Dame's time in PDX had (at the very least) him signing off on and likely more. I really don't like the idea of management running personnel moves past the players. Guys age, eras pass and tough calls on personnel by management will need to happen with any team... better to make those decisions without those being affected weighing in. As you touch on, a player's best interest is not necessarily a franchise's best interest

STOMP

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

This seems like a great time to restate that I still love Dame, I think he was incredibly loyal, and I think the franchise is going to take a major dip without him. This franchise has mismanaged a lot of things in the last decade and I'm certainly haven't handle this situation perfectly. Having said all that, making another mistake by "doing right by Dame" and only considering one trade partner would be the greatest mismanagment of Dame's tenure. Lastly, Dame has EVERY right to try to do whatever he can to end up in the best position for him, and conversely the Blazers should do what's best for them.

Dame decided guaranteed money was best for him when he signed that huge contract.

Now he is looking force his second-best thing as well.

He’s under contract. He has no leverage without further alienating his fan base (or former fans in some cases) and further destroying his “loyalty” legacy.

I will be very curious how things work out as time passes and training camp approaches.

 

[Natebishop3]

I just really don’t care at this point. I don’t care what Joe did to Dame. I don’t care what Dame did to Joe. I just want to turn the page and move on. I want to be excited about Scoot and Shae. This divorce should have happened two years ago.