OT Derek Chauvin, 45, is found guilty on ALL three charges

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

So I’m making a list just cause….. want to make sure I know who to tell my kids to stay away from.

People who…..
Voted and support Trump
Don’t believe in Global Warming
Thinks guns are the best
Believe women shouldn’t have a choice on abortion…..
Believe COVID was a hoax by the liberals
Think Trump and his crew had nothing to do with Jan. 6
….are usually also Beaver fans.

Don't forget to warn them to stay away from people who root for the LA Dodgers and/or Lakers. But then, you'd probably end up missing your kids terribly..........

#BAM

 

[beast blazer]

People who would make the mistake Chauvin made should not be police officers.

That lesson will not be learned unless we punish the people who make those mistakes in a manner to match the severity of the result of their actions.

Chauvin should never have been a cop.

Fired yes. In prison for murder, I don't think so. In prison for manslaughter, maybe.

If the officers and simply gotten off him and put him in the recover position as soon as he was calming down and saying he couldn't breath, they would absolutely be at no fault. I suspect they were in an ego pissing-contest with the crowd, who was telling them to get up.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Fired yes. In prison for murder, I don't think so. In prison for manslaughter, maybe.

If the officers and simply gotten off him and put him in the recover position as soon as he was calming down and saying he couldn't breath, they would absolutely be at no fault. I suspect they were in an ego pissing-contest with the crowd, who was telling them to get up.

He's not in prison for murder. He's in prison for violating the constitutional rights of citizens, resulting in the harm of one and the loss of life for the other.

 

[beast blazer]

He's not in prison for murder. He's in prison for violating the constitutional rights of citizens, resulting in the harm of one and the loss of life for the other.

He was sentenced to 22.5 years for second degree murder. The civil rights violation was a civil case.

He was initially charged with manslaughter, a more reasonable charge, but it was elevated to 2nd degree murder to to mob pressure. 2nd degree murder is unintentional death while committing an assault.

It's a ridiculous charge, because Chauvin was not in the act of committing an assault. Holding a combative arrestee on the ground in that way, was totally in line with their training (Floyd himself asked to be held on the ground). The staying there too long was the negligent part.

 

[Phatguysrule]

He was sentenced to 22.5 years for second degree murder. The civil rights violation was a civil case.

He was initially charged with manslaughter, a more reasonable charge, but it was elevated to 2nd degree murder to to mob pressure. 2nd degree murder is unintentional death while committing an assault.

It's a ridiculous charge, because Chauvin was not in the act of committing an assault. Holding a combative arrestee on the ground in that way, was totally in line with their training (Floyd himself asked to be held on the ground). The staying there too long was the negligent part.

He was certainly in the act of commiting an assault. I do not think he intended to kill George Floyd. He certainly used unnecessary physical force that resulted in death. And police should never do that.

22.5 years is a good sentence.

 

[beast blazer]

He was certainly in the act of commiting an assault. I do not think he intended to kill George Floyd. He certainly used unnecessary physical force that resulted in death. And police should never do that.

22.5 years is a good sentence.

The police restraining a resisting arestee is not assault. If they were committing an assault, you'd have to say every arrest is an assault...something that is clearly ridiculous. The DA knew this and didn't charge him with that initially.

Mob sentiment should not affect our legal system. The same mob wanted an officer to be charged with murder for saving the life of a black woman because he shot another black woman who was lunging at her neck with a knife.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The police restraining a resisting arestee is not assault. If they were committing an assault, you'd have to say every arrest is an assault...something that is clearly ridiculous. The DA knew this and didn't charge him with that initially.

Mob sentiment should not affect our legal system. The same mob wanted an officer to be charged with murder for saving the life of a black woman because he shot another black woman who was lunging at her neck with a knife.

They had no reason to arrest him. The arrest itself was assault.

 

[beast blazer]

They had no reason to arrest him. The arrest itself was assault.

They did because he had counterfeit money, had a speedball in his mouth and was behind the wheel of a car and acting really erratically, so of course they had to remove him, then he was resisting.

Are you saying if he had simply cooperated and got in the police car nice and easy they should still be charged with assault?

 

[Phatguysrule]

They did because he had counterfeit money, had a speedball in his mouth and was behind the wheel of a car and acting really erratically, so of course they had to remove him, then he was resisting.

Are you saying if he had simply cooperated and got in the police car nice and easy they should still be charged with assault?

Police shouldn't just be able to walk up to you and demand to see your hands then point a gun at you because someone told them you broke the law.

The police escalated the situation in the first place, so everything after that is their fault. All they needed to do if Floyd was scared or uncooperative was get the vehicle ID and a picture and then start investigating. Maybe follow Floyd to his next location. Even put a gps tracker on the car.

Police procedures should be to deescalate first and foremost. The police presence is why Floyd died, specifically, the shitty decision making of Chauvin.

Police need to change their training, tactics, hiring and disciplinary methods and until they do I want assholes like Chauvin put in jail long enough that they'll never be able to be a police officer again.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Police shouldn't just be able to walk up to you and demand to see your hands then point a gun at you because someone told them you broke the law.

The police escalated the situation in the first place, so everything after that is their fault. All they needed to do if Floyd was scared or uncooperative was get the vehicle ID and a picture and then start investigating. Maybe follow Floyd to his next location. Even put a gps tracker on the car.

Police procedures should be to deescalate first and foremost. The police presence is why Floyd died, specifically, the shitty decision making of Chauvin.

Police need to change their training, tactics, hiring and disciplinary methods and until they do I want assholes like Chauvin put in jail long enough that they'll never be able to be a police officer again.

how else can we stem a criminal act prior to it happening, if not responding to such information?
Also its not his fault he should never have been a cop. Reading through this it seems that because he should never have been a cop you are justifying every punishment bestowed upon him.
The only good thing from all of this, in my opinion, is it has shined a light on the police force as a whole and exposed things that should be fixed. Like hiring processes and training.
But i do not see how one would want additional punishment for someone wanting to be a cop who shouldn't have been one.
That should not be a factor at all in sentencing.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Another way to put it is if i saw my neighbor with an illegal gun or substance and called the cops, it sounds like you are implying the cops should not investigate my report of my neighbor?

 

[Phatguysrule]

how else can we stem a criminal act prior to it happening, if not responding to such information?

You improve access to education, healthcare, and improve the social safety net and eliminate homelessness.

Do that and you have eliminated 75% of small crime that happens today. Maybe more.
You can't do it with police or jails as the main lever.

Also its not his fault he should never have been a cop. Reading through this it seems that because he should never have been a cop you are justifying every punishment bestowed upon him.

It's not Floyd's fault either. Ignorance is not an excuse. You get a ticket when you speed, regardless of if you know the speed limit or not. Chauvin's mean spiritedness and poor decision making hurt a great many people and killed a man over the allegation of a $20 crime.

Go to jail. For life please. I'll accept 20 years, though, because it means he'll probably never be re-hired as a police officer or have authority over civilians again.

The only good thing from all of this, in my opinion, is it has shined a light on the police force as a whole and exposed things that should be fixed. Like hiring processes and training.

Agreed. Hopefully it will force enough of a change. I have serious doubts.

But i do not see how one would want additional punishment for someone wanting to be a cop who shouldn't have been one.
That should not be a factor at all in sentencing.

No additional punishment. If I go out and grab my neighbor and stand on his neck for 9 minutes while he asphyxiates I would expect to spend the rest of my life in jail. Police should not get a lesser sentence than I would. But the vast majority of the time, they do.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Another way to put it is if i saw my neighbor with an illegal gun or substance and called the cops, it sounds like you are implying the cops should not investigate my report of my neighbor?

Not at all. They can and should investigate. I do not support them getting physical with your neighbor unless your neighbor attacks them or somebody else.

They should be well trained enough (or somebody who shows up should be well trained enough) to get to the bottom of the situation without putting a hand on anybody.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

You improve access to education, healthcare, and improve the social safety net and eliminate homelessness.

Do that and you have eliminated 75% of small crime that happens today. Maybe more.
You can't do it with police or jails.



It's not Floyd's fault either. Ignorance is not an excuse. You get a ticket when you speed, regardless of if you know the speed limit or not. Chauvin's mean spiritedness and poor decision making hurt a great many people and killed a man over the allegation of a $20 crime.

Go to jail. For life please. I'll accept 20 years, though, because it means he'll probably never be re-hired as a police officer or have authority over civilians again.



Agreed. Hopefully it will force enough of a change. I have serious doubts.



No additional punishment. If I go out and grab my neighbor and stand on his neck for 9 minutes while he asphyxiates I would expect to spend the rest of my life in jail. Police should not get a lesser sentence than I would. But the vast majority of the time, they do.

I get that and agree we need improved healthcare and mental awareness but that doesn't solve immediate issues. So its simply irrelevant in this context.

why does he have to be in prison to avoid becoming a cop again? You aren't serious with that are you? Keep him in prison so he cant be a cop? He could get 10 years and never be allowed to be a cop again. The logic in sentencing him longer to avoid his return to the same employment is simply not logical… or fair.


Have you ever done ride alongs with officers? I have. What people try to simplify into some black and white reaction to situations is impossible. Every situation is different.

I see you never responded to the doctors who make mistakes. Whats the difference? Why do cops have to be 100% perfect or go to jail?
Expecting such perfection is a recipe to be disappointed. Cops are human too. What you are expecting is not reasonable. Police have a right to react for their safety just as much as anyone else(not specific to floyd, just in general).

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Not at all. They can and should investigate. I do not support them getting physical with your neighbor unless your neighbor attacks them or somebody else.

They should be well trained enough (or somebody who shows up should be well trained enough) to get to the bottom of the situation without putting a hand on anybody.

So they find an illegal gun on the porch with an 8ball next to it. They ask neighbor to come out with hands up. He doesn't. Cops have to walk away? I know this situation involves a warrant so let's take the house out of it aNd put it in a public place like a bar. I called the cops because a guy in the bar has a weapon and is high on drugs. Cops come investigate. Ask to search the person i point out. Person refuses. Cops cant do anything?

So then person leaves bar, goes down the street and shoots the minimart clerk.


At what point is it okay for cops to take action to avoid such things?

 

[tlongII]

You improve access to education, healthcare, and improve the social safety net and eliminate homelessness.

Do that and you have eliminated 75% of small crime that happens today. Maybe more.
You can't do it with police or jails as the main lever.

non sequitur

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Not at all. They can and should investigate. I do not support them getting physical with your neighbor unless your neighbor attacks them or somebody else.

They should be well trained enough (or somebody who shows up should be well trained enough) to get to the bottom of the situation without putting a hand on anybody.

This is very vague. Well trained enough?

every situation cops roll up on are unique and different. Why? Because personalities and people are all different.
What does well trained enough mean?

Also. I know many other fields requiring alot of training. Those who make it through are not error free.

All I'm saying it is sounds like you want to punish the individual for the corrupt system. I disagree with that portion of his punishment.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Another way to put it is if i saw my neighbor with an illegal gun or substance and called the cops, it sounds like you are implying the cops should not investigate my report of my neighbor?

What should that investigation be?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

What should that investigation be?

Well id like to veer to the bar analogy as a house requires a warrant.
The investigation should be to ask questions. If the individual refuses, then the officers should have the okay to search to confirm or deny the report. If anything, for the safety of everyone else in the bar. If he is high on illegal drugs then. A search is completely in the right and possibly arresting him and tossing him in a cell until he sobers up.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

You improve access to education, healthcare, and improve the social safety net and eliminate homelessness.

Do that and you have eliminated 75% of small crime that happens today. Maybe more.
You can't do it with police or jails as the main lever.



It's not Floyd's fault either. Ignorance is not an excuse. You get a ticket when you speed, regardless of if you know the speed limit or not. Chauvin's mean spiritedness and poor decision making hurt a great many people and killed a man over the allegation of a $20 crime.

Go to jail. For life please. I'll accept 20 years, though, because it means he'll probably never be re-hired as a police officer or have authority over civilians again.



Agreed. Hopefully it will force enough of a change. I have serious doubts.



No additional punishment. If I go out and grab my neighbor and stand on his neck for 9 minutes while he asphyxiates I would expect to spend the rest of my life in jail. Police should not get a lesser sentence than I would. But the vast majority of the time, they do.

your expectations for the prison sentence is not accurate from what im seeing.

https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/manslaughter-sentence/

What is the sentence for a manslaughter conviction?
The sentence for manslaughter will depend on the state and the specific type of manslaughter conviction.

For example, in California, voluntary manslaughter is the most severe type of manslaughter offense. The sentencing range is 3, 6, or 11 years in state prison.1However, in New York, the most severe manslaughter offense is aggravated manslaughter in the first degree.2 The aggravating factor is that it was a police officer who was killed. A conviction for this offense carries a minimum sentence of 10 years in prison, and up to 30 years behind bars.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I get that and agree we need improved healthcare and mental awareness but that doesn't solve immediate issues. So its simply irrelevant in this context.

That's the only solution. Violating the constitutional rights of the population or harrasing them until they give you a legal excuse to accost them is not and never will be a solution.

why does he have to be in prison to avoid becoming a cop again? You aren't serious with that are you? Keep him in prison so he cant be a cop?

He shouldn't have to be in prison to prevent him from being a cop. But if he's not in prison he would almost certainly be re-hired as an officer someplace. Happens all the time. I would expect anybody who does what he did to Floyd to get 20+ years in prison. The fact that it will prevent him from being a cop is just an added bonus.

He could get 10 years and never be allowed to be a cop again. The logic in sentencing him longer to avoid his return to the same employment is simply not logical… or fair.

Nobody suggested he be sentenced longer for this reason. I have suggested that he not receive a reduced sentence due to being a cop. Which unfortunately is what usually happens. And that's if there is any sentence at all.

Have you ever done ride alongs with officers? I have. What people try to simplify into some black and white reaction to situations is impossible. Every situation is different.

Don't care. You can't assault people or kill people the way Chauvin did. Ever. That's not acceptable, or even close. Certainly not over an allegation of a $20 crime.

I see you never responded to the doctors who make mistakes. Whats the difference? Why do cops have to be 100% perfect or go to jail?

I didn't see anything about doctors.

Expecting such perfection is a recipe to be disappointed. Cops are human too. What you are expecting is not reasonable. Police have a right to react for their safety just as much as anyone else(not specific to floyd, just in general).

I haven't said police should not be allowed to defend themselves.

 

[Phatguysrule]

your expectations for the prison sentence is not accurate from what im seeing.

https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/manslaughter-sentence/

What is the sentence for a manslaughter conviction?
The sentence for manslaughter will depend on the state and the specific type of manslaughter conviction.

For example, in California, voluntary manslaughter is the most severe type of manslaughter offense. The sentencing range is 3, 6, or 11 years in state prison.1However, in New York, the most severe manslaughter offense is aggravated manslaughter in the first degree.2 The aggravating factor is that it was a police officer who was killed. A conviction for this offense carries a minimum sentence of 10 years in prison, and up to 30 years behind bars.

https://www.justia.com/criminal/off...cond-degree murder is,This will vary by state.

Because second-degree murder is a lesser crime than first-degree murder, it is not typically subject to a death penalty sentence. Instead, defendants may face a long term of imprisonment or the possibility of life in prison. This will vary by state. In Arizona, for example, a defendant convicted of second-degree murder will be sentenced to no less than ten years in prison, but no more than twenty-five. In California, that same defendant would face a sentence of anywhere from fifteen years to life in prison.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

That's the only solution. Violating the constitutional rights of the population or harrasing them until they give you a legal excuse to accost them is not and never will be a solution.


He shouldn't have to be in prison to prevent him from being a cop. But if he's not in prison he would almost certainly be re-hired as an officer someplace. Happens all the time. I would expect anybody who does what he did to Floyd to get 20+ years in prison. The fact that it will prevent him from being a cop is just an added bonus.


Nobody suggested he be sentenced longer for this reason. I have suggested that he not receive a reduced sentence due to being a cop. Which unfortunately is what usually happens. And that's if there is any sentence at all.



Don't care. You can't assault people or kill people the way Chauvin did. Ever. That's not acceptable, or even close. Certainly not over an allegation of a $20 crime.


I didn't see anything about doctors.


I haven't said police should not be allowed to defend themselves.

Sorry man. But its just not as black and white as you want to make it out to be. There is no set response for situations because they are all different.
Also. He got a longer sentence than most, so i am just not seeing what you aRe saying.

you say you don't care about ride alongs. But you want more education. The ride along is an education more people should do/have to get a better perspective. Without it, you are arguing from limited knowledge and coming to a conclusion without knowing the full scope of the job/ situation. I cant take that serious.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Well id like to veer to the bar analogy as a house requires a warrant.
The investigation should be to ask questions. If the individual refuses, then the officers should have the okay to search to confirm or deny the report. If anything, for the safety of everyone else in the bar. If he is high on illegal drugs then. A search is completely in the right and possibly arresting him and tossing him in a cell until he sobers up.

We have a Constitutional Right not to answer questions. Invoking that right does not give police the right to search you.

I post youtube videos from a Republican/Conservative Lawyer all the time here. This guy is a gun-loving conservative. It's weird how people see "Civil Rights" and immediately assume Liberal. But no, if you believe in the 2nd Amendment you believe in Civil Rights. They're one in the fucking same.

Seriously, watch a few of those videos. Learn what rights we have in real-life examples.

http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/the-civil-rights-lawyer.380369/

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is very vague. Well trained enough?

every situation cops roll up on are unique and different. Why? Because personalities and people are all different.
What does well trained enough mean?

Also. I know many other fields requiring alot of training. Those who make it through are not error free.

All I'm saying it is sounds like you want to punish the individual for the corrupt system. I disagree with that portion of his punishment.

I want to punish the individual for their stupid actions and the harm they have caused. I want the system fixed to reduce the number of stupid action that civilians have to deal with.

 

[Phatguysrule]

non sequitur

It's the only solution to the question that was asked.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

https://www.justia.com/criminal/offenses/homicide/second-degree-murder/#:~:text=Because second-degree murder is,This will vary by state.

no less than 10 no more than 25. Seems 22 years is on the long end. Not the short end a 15 year sentance would be about average so not sure what you are getting at in this post?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

It's the only solution to the question that was asked.

Not its not. Its not a solution at all for current events/situations. What you and i wNt will take time to implement successfully. Until then just let criminals run rampant?

There are long term proposed solutions and then there are immediate solutions required for the interim.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Sorry man. But its just not as black and white as you want to make it out to be. There is no set response for situations because they are all different.
Also. He got a longer sentence than most, so i am just not seeing what you aRe saying.

you say you don't care about ride alongs. But you want more education. The ride along is an education more people should do/have to get a better perspective. Without it, you are arguing from limited knowledge and coming to a conclusion without knowing the full scope of the job/ situation. I cant take that serious.

This is all irrelevant to my position. I don't care about what you witnessed or experienced on your ride-along with officers who are trained under the current system.

 

[Phatguysrule]

no less than 10 no more than 25. Seems 22 years is on the ling end. Not the short end a 15 year sentance would be about average so not sure what you are getting at in this post?

And he has multiple charges. I'm good with it.