Zombie Derrick Jones to Portland

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Tince said:
I get what you're saying... you have confidence we will have enough spacing on the floor that teams won't dare him to shoot/be a play maker?

He's a well below average shooter and ball handler for his position. I fear the Covington/DJJ tandom will look a lot like Aminu/Harkless and I don't want our playoff hopes to depend on them hitting 3's.
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I think Jones is much better off the ball than either one of those guys. I think Jones‘ slashing is more valuable than average, inconsistent, outside shooting, which is pretty much all Aminu brought. Harkless was a good slasher, but it also depended on his mood, so it was inconsistent.
 
Scalma said:
I think Jones is much better off the ball than either one of those guys. I think Jones‘ slashing is more valuable than average, inconsistent, outside shooting, which is pretty much all Aminu brought. Harkless was a good slasher, but it also depended on his mood, so it was inconsistent.
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I hope you're right. If his defender is playing way off him and they don't defend Nurk out to 15ft feet, I think his slashing opportunities will be limited. On the flip side, I think Dame and CJ are going to beat 1-2 people up top, only to find Jones' defender waiting to help, daring him to kick it out to DJJ. Again, I hope the coaches can get something out of him that Phoenix and Miami did not.

Personally, I don't love when we put out lineups with 3 guys that are 35% or less from deep.
 
Tince said:
I hope you're right. If his defender is playing way off him and they don't defend Nurk out to 15ft feet, I think his slashing opportunities will be limited. On the flip side, I think Dame and CJ are going to beat 1-2 people up top, only to find Jones' defender waiting to help, daring him to kick it out to DJJ. Again, I hope the coaches can get something out of him that Phoenix and Miami did not.

Personally, I don't love when we put out lineups with 3 guys that are 35% or less from deep.
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Are you suggesting Covington is a sub 35% shooter based on his Houston sample size from last year? He's 36% on almost 7 attempts for his career. Dame is only 37% on 8 attempts per game for his career. Covington is definitely a better shooter in theory than reality, but he's not a non shooter like Aminu and Harmless. Teams are not going to leave him alone.
 
B-Roy said:
Are you suggesting Covington is a sub 35% shooter based on his Houston sample size from last year? He's 36% on almost 7 attempts for his career. Dame is only 37% on 8 attempts per game for his career. Covington is definitely a better shooter in theory than reality, but he's not a non shooter like Aminu and Harmless. Teams are not going to leave him alone.
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Exactly. Comparing percentages can be very deceiving. What matters is percentage, willingness to shoot, and gravity. Covington is leagues better than either of Aminu or Harkless in that.
 
B-Roy said:
Are you suggesting Covington is a sub 35% shooter based on his Houston sample size from last year? He's 36% on almost 7 attempts for his career. Dame is only 37% on 8 attempts per game for his career. Covington is definitely a better shooter in theory than reality, but he's not a non shooter like Aminu and Harmless. Teams are not going to leave him alone.
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You're correct, I was 1% off on Covington.

I think the comparison between the difficulty of three's Covington has taken is far closer to Aminu/Harkless, than your comparsion of Dame. You disagree?

You may be right that they won't just leave Covington open, but I fully expect them to leave DJJ open.
 
Tince said:
You're correct, I was 1% off on Covington.

I think the comparison between the difficulty of three's Covington has taken is far closer to Aminu/Harkless, than your comparsion of Dame. You disagree?

You may be right that they won't just leave Covington open, but I fully expect them to leave DJJ open.
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We’ll see, but I doubt they are going to completely ignore him like Harkless and Aminu.

And on Jones, again he’s not ending the game when we have other shooters on the team. Stotts often went to Crabbe or Seth or other shooters in closing lineups but they had defensive issues. We have Hood, Melo and Trent this year that can all end games spacing the floor, so I don’t see what the issue is.

Besides, we’ve seen the trap even when we had two 40% shooters at the wing spots last year and we still couldn’t beat it. Not sure why you’re harping so heavily on the lack of shooting when that’s not even the main reason why we struggle against the trap. We don’t have a secondary playmaker and our guys don’t make quick passes and decisions out of the double.
 
Tince said:
I hope you're right. If his defender is playing way off him and they don't defend Nurk out to 15ft feet, I think his slashing opportunities will be limited. On the flip side, I think Dame and CJ are going to beat 1-2 people up top, only to find Jones' defender waiting to help, daring him to kick it out to DJJ. Again, I hope the coaches can get something out of him that Phoenix and Miami did not.

Personally, I don't love when we put out lineups with 3 guys that are 35% or less from deep.
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If DJJ isn’t a complete moron he will back cut when Dame/CJ defender steps up leaving a wide open alley oop.
 
B-Roy said:
We’ll see, but I doubt they are going to completely ignore him like Harkless and Aminu.

And on Jones, again he’s not ending the game when we have other shooters on the team. Stotts often went to Crabbe or Seth or other shooters in closing lineups but they had defensive issues. We have Hood, Melo and Trent this year that can all end games spacing the floor, so I don’t see what the issue is.

Besides, we’ve seen the trap even when we had two 40% shooters at the wing spots last year and we still couldn’t beat it. Not sure why you’re harping so heavily on the lack of shooting when that’s not even the main reason why we struggle against the trap. We don’t have a secondary playmaker and our guys don’t make quick passes and decisions out of the double.
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I don't think I even brought up the trap, let alone harped on it. I was more focused on Dame/CJ having space in the lane after coming off a screen and/or better passing windows when Nurk has the ball at the high post.

I know I probably sound super down on DJJ, and I don't mean to, but I feel like there a bunch of folks way over-valuing his skill set. Below average shooter, ball handler, and passer will not get missed when teams scheme us defensively.
 
JoshuaHall said:
If DJJ isn’t a complete moron he will back cut when Dame/CJ defender steps up leaving a wide open alley oop.
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Ideally, this would be the case. This assumes Nurk's defender isn't in the key. I suspect Nurk will actually be the one throwing the most lobs to DJJ of anyone. Dame isn't known for being a terrific lob passer, but maybe that's due to a lack of targets.

Time well tell if we can put together a system where he deserves to be a full time starter and/or play 24+mpg. Obviously Miami and Phoenix did not feel that way.
 
Tince said:
You're correct, I was 1% off on Covington.

I think the comparison between the difficulty of three's Covington has taken is far closer to Aminu/Harkless, than your comparsion of Dame. You disagree?

You may be right that they won't just leave Covington open, but I fully expect them to leave DJJ open.
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You realize that this destroys the premise of your previous post. You were saying that there can't be floor spacing if only two guys can hit the three and then you admitted that three guys can hit the three. Obviously that will give us spacing to see lanes open up for a slasher or leave a really good big open under the hoop. Dame will be dishing dimes to Jones and Nurk a lot this season. If CJ will pass when he sees one of those two with a path to the hoop instead of locking in on iso... then this team will be really dangerous on offense. Also with all of this Jones talk it's important to remember that the guy is a freak on defense and we need guys who can defend the perimeter.
 
Tince said:
I don't think I even brought up the trap, let alone harped on it. I was more focused on Dame/CJ having space in the lane after coming off a screen and/or better passing windows when Nurk has the ball at the high post.

I know I probably sound super down on DJJ, and I don't mean to, but I feel like there a bunch of folks way over-valuing his skill set. Below average shooter, ball handler, and passer will not get missed when teams scheme us defensively.
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Are people really that high on DJJ? I think some of us are cautiously optimistic but I don’t see anyone that is really claiming he changes the trajectory of the team.
 
JoshuaHall said:
If DJJ isn’t a complete moron he will back cut when Dame/CJ defender steps up leaving a wide open alley oop.
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This. That's where some of these super-athletes fail. Their muscle exists 100% from their necks down.

We'll figure that out real quick with DJJ. And that will tell you a lot about what his potential is.
 
blazerkor said:
You realize that this destroys the premise of your previous post. You were saying that there can't be floor spacing if only two guys can hit the three and then you admitted that three guys can hit the three. Obviously that will give us spacing to see lanes open up for a slasher or leave a really good big open under the hoop. Dame will be dishing dimes to Jones and Nurk a lot this season. If CJ will pass when he sees one of those two with a path to the hoop instead of locking in on iso... then this team will be really dangerous on offense. Also with all of this Jones talk it's important to remember that the guy is a freak on defense and we need guys who can defend the perimeter.
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I said you might be right about how teams will defend Covington. There were times where teams wouldn't leave Aminu open, but would help a little extra off him or close out a little slower in order to shrink driving/passing lanes for Dame and CJ. I still think that's very probable.

I'm excited to see Jones on defense, like you.

We'll know by the end of the season if these guys are more offensive threats than liabilties. Again, I liked the Covington move, I'm just not in love with DJJ as much as others.
 
B-Roy said:
Are people really that high on DJJ? I think some of us are cautiously optimistic but I don’t see anyone that is really claiming he changes the trajectory of the team.
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My impression is a lot of people think he's significantly better than Harkless/Aminu where as I think his productivity will be somewhat in that neighborhood.

It appears you've warmed up to him since your first couple posts in this thread where you seemed to be lower on him than I am.
 
I’ve warmed up to him, some perimeter D and someone who actually plays above the rim might rub off on a few others.

I guarantee if he throws one down in LBJs face no one will call it a bad signing.
 
Tince said:
My impression is a lot of people think he's significantly better than Harkless/Aminu where as I think his productivity will be somewhat in that neighborhood.

It appears you've warmed up to him since your first couple posts in this thread where you seemed to be lower on him than I am.
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I’m putting him on the same level as Harkless. I don’t expect him to get more than 24 mpg so it’s whatever. He’s a depth piece. I think that’s how a lot of people are seeing him right now.

I don’t see anyone saying he’s going to be better than Harkless or Aminu.
 
B-Roy said:
I’m putting him on the same level as Harkless. I don’t expect him to get more than 24 mpg so it’s whatever. He’s a depth piece. I think that’s how a lot of people are seeing him right now.

I don’t see anyone saying he’s going to be better than Harkless or Aminu.
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As I originally said, there were people here saying they liked the move because he wasn't going to be a starter. Now, he might be a starter, which made me ask the question if they still liked the move.

There are at least 5 different people in this thread who make the case that this is an improved starting wing pairing than 2018-19. I certainly wouldn't say it's worse, but I'm not ready to say it's better, for the reasons I've listed. I would much prefer to give up some of our forward depth in place of a forward we could count on to pair with Covington. Maybe a guy Miami didn't pick over Meyers is the best we could get with our MLE, or maybe Miami made a dumb move, who knows.
 
Tince said:
As I originally said, there were people here saying they liked the move because he wasn't going to be a starter. Now, he might be a starter, which made me ask the question if they still liked the move.

There are at least 5 different people in this thread who make the case that this is an improved starting wing pairing than 2018-19. I certainly wouldn't say it's worse, but I'm not ready to say it's better, for the reasons I've listed. I would much prefer to give up some of our forward depth in place of a forward we could count on to pair with Covington. Maybe a guy Miami didn't pick over Meyers is the best we could get with our MLE, or maybe Miami made a dumb move, who knows.
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Not sure who you have in mind here, but forwards that defend and shoot the three well are in high demand, and don’t hit the trade market quite often. In case you hadn’t noticed, we just traded two firsts for one.

Looking up and down the league most teams don’t have more than one if they’re even lucky enough to have one. And the ones who defend and shoot the three AND also play make are max contract players.

I honestly think our wing depth is better than 18/19. At least now we have one 3 and D, one D and no 3, and one 3 but no D (Hood). Instead of two D and no 3 and one 3 but no D. Marginally better, but still better.
 
B-Roy said:
I’m putting him on the same level as Harkless. I don’t expect him to get more than 24 mpg so it’s whatever. He’s a depth piece. I think that’s how a lot of people are seeing him right now.

I don’t see anyone saying he’s going to be better than Harkless or Aminu.
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Just for the record, I think he will be better than either of those guys were for us. His shot is nice, he just needs to take it at the right time, with his feet set and space and it will fall. It's not a myth that Stotts' staff and offense makes guys better three point shooters. This guy will be like Aminu except when he puts it on the floor it will be a good thing and end up with a dunk instead of a turnover. He'll be just as reliable as either of them on defense but I think he'll be more of a ball hawk. I'm not saying he'll be an all-star just that he'll be a more complete role player than Moe or Chief and I actually liked those guys. It also doesn't hurt that a lot of the time he does play he'll be playing across from RoCo who is much better than either of those two former Blazers forwards.
 
B-Roy said:
Are people really that high on DJJ? I think some of us are cautiously optimistic but I don’t see anyone that is really claiming he changes the trajectory of the team.
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And yet some fans are proclaiming Olshey a genius for the signing.
 
Tince said:
As I originally said, there were people here saying they liked the move because he wasn't going to be a starter. Now, he might be a starter, which made me ask the question if they still liked the move.

There are at least 5 different people in this thread who make the case that this is an improved starting wing pairing than 2018-19. I certainly wouldn't say it's worse, but I'm not ready to say it's better, for the reasons I've listed. I would much prefer to give up some of our forward depth in place of a forward we could count on to pair with Covington. Maybe a guy Miami didn't pick over Meyers is the best we could get with our MLE, or maybe Miami made a dumb move, who knows.
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At the end of the day it's all going to hinge on Stotts. If they want to try him out as a starter with RoCo at power forward, that's fine, but the problem with Stotts in the past is that he was way too slow to adapt. In the playoffs it took him forever to start playing Rodney and Zach instead of Hark and Aminu. He's so stubborn about his lineups and he clings to some players like they're his binky.

We have the depth to change things up if something isn't working. Will Stotts utilize that? I have my doubts.
 
When traps occur, it is nice to be able to throw the ball anywhere near the rim and have someone finish. Offensive rebounding is also needed on this team, as well as having someone who can finish on the fast break. This should help

 
Don't worry about his motor, he's like Shawn Marion Jr on the fast break. And like Marion, he's a dude that likely has some room to grow with the outside jumper as he gets more usage.
 
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