Detroit

[julius]

$1.5T is a lot of money. Enough to pay social security benefits for 2 years. And social security is a huge part of govt. spending
(chart deleted for space)

did I say it wasn't?

I addressed a false statement (which is common among arguments in these kinds of threads). Nothing more.
Bringing in other arguments (not sure what social security has to do with anything) does nothing.

Instead of people responding (not so much you, but mostly papag) hyperbole filled responses, a simple "oops, wrote that wrong" or "yeah, you're probably right. 37+ years of spending for the Navy has probably exceeded 1.5 trillion dollars and I'm not sure where I got that figure from." would suffice.

This misleading tactic is used a lot by people who just want to say loud and scary things, trying to get their point across, and for some reason we're perfectly ok with people lying to us or purposely misleading us.

Not saying that MarAzul is purposely misleading us, because I doubt that. but wherever the original point originated from (it sounds like something Glenn Beck is known for barfing out, without fact checking), they are purposely misleading.

It's why so many of those chain emails are absolute crap, because the people who send them KNOW people are just going to forward them and get a bigger, in most cases false, message across.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Name one major U.S. city run by Repubs for decades where anything similar has happened?

You may not want to hear it, but as they say, elections have consequences.

Bottom line Dems can't handle finances. In fact, they are quite insane about it.

rep'd

Elections do have consequences. Look at Oregon.

It was more the corruption and graft than inability to handle finances- although that is also a major part of it all.

 

[Denny Crane]

did I say it wasn't?

I addressed a false statement (which is common among arguments in these kinds of threads). Nothing more.
Bringing in other arguments (not sure what social security has to do with anything) does nothing.

Instead of people responding (not so much you, but mostly papag) hyperbole filled responses, a simple "oops, wrote that wrong" or "yeah, you're probably right. 37+ years of spending for the Navy has probably exceeded 1.5 trillion dollars and I'm not sure where I got that figure from." would suffice.

This misleading tactic is used a lot by people who just want to say loud and scary things, trying to get their point across, and for some reason we're perfectly ok with people lying to us or purposely misleading us.

Not saying that MarAzul is purposely misleading us, because I doubt that. but wherever the original point originated from (it sounds like something Glenn Beck is known for barfing out, without fact checking), they are purposely misleading.

It's why so many of those chain emails are absolute crap, because the people who send them KNOW people are just going to forward them and get a bigger, in most cases false, message across.

I think MarAzul got his facts mixed up. Obama's run up more debt than the first 40 presidents combined. I don't know where he got anything about navy spending.

 

[julius]

I think MarAzul got his facts mixed up. Obama's run up more debt than the first 40 presidents combined. I don't know where he got anything about navy spending.

Well, that's kind of my point. But even if you say that that is what he meant, that in itself isn't true either (and has nothing to do with Detroit or the cause of the failure of Detroit as a solvent city).

 

[tlongII]

Did you grow up there or have family still there? Would love to hear your opinion.

We moved away when I was a kid. The only thing I remember is almost getting run over by a car.

 

[tlongII]

And you're morally bankrupt.

Coincidence?

Rep'd!

 

[julius]

We moved away when I was a kid. The only thing I remember is almost getting run over by a car.

what was the reason for the move? New job for one of your parents? Just a change of scenery?

 

[Draco]

Detroit is a wasteland because of Democrats. Haha that is a new one I never heard.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Considering there aren't any other major cities that are this bad off, I don't think you can make that comparison. And if that were the case, what is the reason blue states are wealthier than red states? I'm not saying it's the opposite, just that there are so many factors that go into a situation like this that your simple extrapolation can't be relied on.

Don't get me wrong, I do think that corruption in local government and some poorly executed policy was partly to blame, but it's just part of the picture. Just like the crappy governance is only partly to blame in Mississippi, Arkansas, Kentucky, Alabama and Tennessee for their high poverty levels.

The States of California and New York say hello



California is what? the seventh largest econemy in the world....all the down hill slide started with unionizing public jobs

 

[MARIS61]

The States of California and New York say hello



California is what? the seventh largest econemy in the world....all the down hill slide started with unionizing public jobs

Just the reverse is true. California's financial health peaked shortly before Reagan became governor and Ronnie's personally-motivated war on unions pretty much guaranteed the decades-long slow death we've witnessed since.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Just the reverse is true. California's financial health peaked shortly before Reagan became governor and Ronnie's personally-motivated war on unions pretty much guaranteed the decades-long slow death we've witnessed since.

oh...so that is why the unfunded pension debt bankrupt Sac..sometimes I do wish you were a real persona...smart person and great wit..just so friggen out there..oh well, how ya doin?

 

[Denny Crane]

Well, that's kind of my point. But even if you say that that is what he meant, that in itself isn't true either (and has nothing to do with Detroit or the cause of the failure of Detroit as a solvent city).

Actually it is true. I fact, true for all the previous presidents combined.

http://www.politifact.com/new-jerse...has-added-more-national-debt-previous-43-pre/

If we take into account administration projections for debt held by the public as of the end of fiscal year 2013, then the amount of that debt added would exceed the level from Jan. 20, 2009. Fiscal year 2013 is the last budget year to begin during Obama’s first term.

According to the White House’s Office of Management and Budget, debt held by the public is estimated to be about $12.636 trillion at the end of fiscal year 2013, which concludes Sept. 30, 2013.

Based on that estimate, the amount of debt held by the public that was added during Obama’s tenure would be about $6.329 trillion, surpassing the amount as of his inauguration by about $22 billion.

 

[maxiep]

No, really, there isn't. Please look up Kwame Kilpatrick.

Kwame Kilpatrick is a mere footnote for Detroit's problems. You have to go further back to Coleman Young. He's the real villain.

Detroit's problem is they had a golden goose. They taxed it to fund their cronies, and eventually, middle-class flight and the decline of the US auto industry killed that golden tax base.

It's not like SE Michigan doesn't have money. It has some of the most beautiful suburbs in the country. However, Detroit is done.

As an aside, my wife works for a company that takes over and turns around Head Start programs. They were given the city of Detroit earlier this year. The corruption they're finding is on a banana republic scale. Tens of millions of dollars literally being taken from the mouths of children to line the pockets of Detroit's politically favored.

And what should scare people about Detroit, is that it's the model we're following in the United States as a whole. A privileged few feasting off the labor of the common person, all in the name of helping those very people from whom they're leeching.

This isn't Democrat/Republican. This is ruling class/underclass.

 

[MarAzul]

Actually it is true. I fact, true for all the previous presidents combined.

http://www.politifact.com/new-jerse...has-added-more-national-debt-previous-43-pre/

If we take into account administration projections for debt held by the public as of the end of fiscal year 2013, then the amount of that debt added would exceed the level from Jan. 20, 2009. Fiscal year 2013 is the last budget year to begin during Obama’s first term.

According to the White House’s Office of Management and Budget, debt held by the public is estimated to be about $12.636 trillion at the end of fiscal year 2013, which concludes Sept. 30, 2013.

Based on that estimate, the amount of debt held by the public that was added during Obama’s tenure would be about $6.329 trillion, surpassing the amount as of his inauguration by about $22 billion.

Actually the bottom line of the original post was, the bailout didn't mean anything to Detroit.

That actually was the message. Even though it is true he spent more on bailout than the last 10 president have on the US Navy.

If he doesn't like that number then here is another, Obama is on course to double the debit of the Nation. Which means he will have run up as much debit as all previous 43 Presidents combined. He should be impeached for the high crime as it stands to date.

 

[maxiep]

Obviously politics have an (effect/affect) on everything in our day to day life, but I didn't want this to become a blame game from both sides. I know the first step was all the GM bigwigs leaving town. I'm just blown away by those pics Rasta posted. How do we have a major city in our country in this day and age slip to this 3rd world level. Do you guys honestly think they can come back or will it just become a wasteland?

It will have to be razed. It will have to be shrunk. And it will have to change. Change completely. Detroit can come back, but a lot of people are going to have to be hurt in the process. People that were promised pensions. People that were promised services. Police officers, fire fighters and teachers. Old people. Children. Pain is unavoidable.

It's an unbelievably sad story. And if the US continues on this path, Detroit will be thought of as the bellwether than we all ignored.

 

[julius]

That actually was the message. Even though it is true he spent more on bailout than the last 10 president have on the US Navy.

Actually, no it's not true. The last 10 presidents have spent over 3 trillion on the navy. That's just slightly above the amount that "Obama" spent on GM and Chrysler. That was your original statement, so try sticking to defending that.

From 76 to 04, the US government spent 2.35 trillion on the Navy (and I think it's safe to say that you can tack on another trillion since 04).

You're telling that President Obama, himself, has spent over 3 trillion on GM and Chrysler?

You honestly want to stick by that math?

If he doesn't like that number then here is another, Obama is on course to double the debit of the Nation. Which means he will have run up as much debit as all previous 43 Presidents combined. He should be impeached for the high crime as it stands to date.

If that has anything to do with Detroit, this thread or anything that was said in this thread, I'd like to see you explain how.

 

[MarAzul]

Actually, no it's not true. The last 10 presidents have spent over 3 trillion on the navy. That's just slightly above the amount that "Obama" spent on GM and Chrysler. That was your original statement, so try sticking to defending that.

From 76 to 04, the US government spent 2.35 trillion on the Navy (and I think it's safe to say that you can tack on another trillion since 04).

You're telling that President Obama, himself, has spent over 3 trillion on GM and Chrysler?

You honestly want to stick by that math?


If that has anything to do with Detroit, this thread or anything that was said in this thread, I'd like to see you explain how.

How much did you spend on your automobile?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

[video=youtube;HYPqA4slnbQ]

 

[julius]

How much did you spend on your automobile?

How much did you spend on cat food last week?

 

[Nikolokolus]

there is more than enough blame to go around. No one political ideology is innocent from government waste or fraud.

And the congregation said, "Amen."

 

[MarAzul]

How much did you spend on cat food last week?

I don't track it, it is not a capital expenditure.

 

[julius]

I don't track it, it is not a capital expenditure.

Oh, sorry I thought you were just totally bringing up random stuff that had nothing to do with your original comment about Obama spending more on GM and Chrysler than the last 10 presidents did on the Navy. That's why I responded the way I did. You actually had a point you were trying to make?

 

[Further]

How many fibers are intertwined in a shredded wheat biscuit?

How many times did the batmobile catch a flat?

 

[PapaG]

60 years of Democratic leadership led to Detroit's current situation. It's funny reading the Team Dem posts saying that it isn't an issue. It's also absurd.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

How many fibers are intertwined in a shredded wheat biscuit?

How many times did the batmobile catch a flat?

How many feathers in a Purdue chicken?

What does "touche et lele pu" mean?

 

[MarAzul]

60 years of Democratic leadership led to Detroit's current situation. It's funny reading the Team Dem posts saying that it isn't an issue. It's also absurd.

And Obama's bailing out the Auto industry didn't do squat for those Dems in Detroit either. Detroit and Stockton are not the last Cities the Dems will bankrupt. just the leading edge.

 

[MARIS61]

Ultimately, cities thrive or die depending on the character of their citizens. Whom they elect to office has little to do with it.

Detroit is a prime example of what happens when bad people are the majority.

 

[julius]

How many feathers in a Purdue chicken?

What does "touche et lele pu" mean?

How many seas must a white dove sale? Before she sleeps in the sand?

How many times must MarAzul say Obama spent more on GM and Chrysler than the last 10 presidents did on the navy?

The answer my friend, is blowin' in the wind...

 

[SlyPokerDog]

How many seas must a white dove sale? Before she sleeps in the sand?

How many times must MarAzul say Obama spent more on GM and Chrysler than the last 10 presidents did on the navy?

The answer my friend, is blowin' in the wind...

I'll let Further tell you why your reply was a giant fail. In this case 3 was not a magic number.

 

[Further]

It's from a De La Soul song. Unless you mentioned that your favorite drama movie was "blood sucking freaks who was just like yo mama" the response wars destined to fail.


Big props and mega reps going plug one style to SlyPokerDog in the Daisy Age!