Did Brandon Roy Game the System?

[Stevenson]

BTW, what I am saying is not original. I think it was a Kerry Eggers column where I saw this first posited.

 

[Minstrel]

The damage to the Blazers? Because if he was not actually ready to retire (as we now know for a fact) he is now coming back to play for a different team. Let's say he actually was not in perfect health, but also not retirement ready. How does he tell the team he wants to take a year off to really heal? Especially given his salary, and the Oden issue, he could not. So he fake retired. Got a year off. And now he's no longer a Blazer.

He got a full salary, and a year off. We got zilch.

You didn't mention where the negative impact, or damage, to the Blazers was. The salary was going to be paid regardless. He was going to be amnestied regardless, because why on Earth would the Blazers keep his salary on the books, when we all know he's never going to be an impact player again? Are you suggesting that if he had said "I'm still good to go," the Blazers would have kept him on the roster? I think there's no way that happens.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Can the Blazers trade for Roy if another team signs him first? I'd imagine no but I've never seen that rule specified for amnesty waivers.

No, they cannot.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q67

The waiving team may not re-sign or re-acquire the player for the length of his contract (which includes seasons following an ETO, but does not include seasons following an option)

 

[jlprk]

I remember when Jerry West retired. He hung on for the preseason, just so he could play one game against rookie Blazer Bill Walton, and then retired before the regular season began. (In Los Angeles, the two were each King of his own local basketball dynasty.)

Now imagine if West had returned a year later--as a CELTIC!!!!

You would have never heard of him again, as a coach, GM, or "immigrant allowed into Los Angeles."

 

[Stevenson]

I remember when Jerry West retired. He hung on for the preseason, just so he could play one game against rookie Blazer Bill Walton, and then retired before the regular season began. (In Los Angeles, the two were each King of his own local basketball dynasty.)

Now imagine if West had returned a year later--as a CELTIC!!!!

You would have never heard of him again, as a coach, GM, or "immigrant allowed into Los Angeles."

Bingo.

And Minstrel, yes, I do think that if Roy had said that he was not yet done, amnestiing him would have been much harder. Remember, it was only 5 days earlier, on Monday of that week, that we heard he was back and was going to be a starter. He was the face of the franchise. He had leverage and juice and the city on his side.

So what happened?

Maybe we didn't like what we saw in practice that first week back, or he didnt like it. Either way, the amnesty word was bantied about. Roy knows he doesnt want to play the short season, and doesn't want to be picked up off waivers with his crappy knees (Minny was ready even back then) So he "retires."

 

[Minstrel]

And Minstrel, yes, I do think that if Roy had said that he was not yet done, amnestiing him would have been much harder. Remember, it was only 5 days earlier, on Monday of that week, that we heard he was back and was going to be a starter. He was the face of the franchise. He had leverage and juice and the city on his side.

So what you're saying is that Roy actually helped the Blazers. It would have been difficult to amnesty him, from a PR perspective, had he not said "no mas," and not amnestying him would have been terrible for the Blazers...it would have saddled them with a horrendous contract for a player who's knees are shot.

I actually don't believe the Blazers would have refused to use the amnesty on him had he said he was going to keep going. But if you are right, then we should be thrilled that Roy did what he did...it saved the Blazers from making a really bad decision.

 

[jlprk]

Roy's contract got Pritchard fired.

Roy's departure sank the team and got McMillan fired.

In the entire season, he attended one game, despite living a 3-hour drive away in Seattle. He had long since sold his Portland house lickety-split, so he sped back to Seattle as fast as he could after the game to escape the adoring fans and media.

At that game, he noticeably avoided Paul Allen, who was sending him a monthly check of a million dollars to do nothing.

As soon as the season ended, he looked for a new employer and city and high-tailed it to Minneapolis.

Why would this bother anyone? It happens all the time.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Roy's contract got Pritchard fired.

Roy's departure sank the team and got McMillan fired.

In the entire season, he attended one game, despite living a 3-hour drive away in Seattle. He had long since sold his Portland house lickety-split, so he sped back to Seattle as fast as he could after the game to escape the adoring fans and media.

At that game, he noticeably avoided Paul Allen, who was sending him a monthly check of a million dollars to do nothing.

As soon as the season ended, he looked for a new employer and city and high-tailed it to Minneapolis.

Why would this bother anyone? It happens all the time.

Like you jlprk, I'm miffed over what has transpired with Roy. I've always felt something was up since he only attended that one game. Never did the Blazers throw him a party, retire his jersey, etc. Mum was the word all season in regards to Roy and the Blazers. And my question is this: Had Roy simply retired, would the Blazers still be on the hook to "pay" him? Forget about the "books" and the "cap" - I'm talking about PA having to write him a check each month. Would insurance not have at least paid those millions rather than PA paying them? I'm just very confused and greatly disappointed over Roy (my favorite Blazer of all-time aside from Bobby Gross) and to watch him play in another uniform is just sickening.

 

[Nikolokolus]

So what you're saying is that Roy actually helped the Blazers. It would have been difficult to amnesty him, from a PR perspective, had he not said "no mas," and not amnestying him would have been terrible for the Blazers...it would have saddled them with a horrendous contract for a player who's knees are shot.

I actually don't believe the Blazers would have refused to use the amnesty on him had he said he was going to keep going. But if you are right, then we should be thrilled that Roy did what he did...it saved the Blazers from making a really bad decision.

That's exactly how we should be looking at it. Roy basically saved the team a massive PR hit that could have cost them millions in lost revenue or tied up their cap for years. It's almost like a deus ex machina; popping in at just the right time to rescue us from a bad or worse decision.

 

[jlprk]

And my question is this: Had Roy simply retired, would the Blazers still be on the hook to "pay" him? Forget about the "books" and the "cap" - I'm talking about PA having to write him a check each month. Would insurance not have at least paid those millions rather than PA paying them?

1) If he had voluntarily retired, it's like quitting a job. Allen would owe him nothing. 2) Had management gotten the league's permission to medically retire him, insurance would have paid most. 3) But they amnestied him. If insurance for amnesty exists then like flood insurance, it may not be standard in most policies. If any was covered, I doubt it was much. And Allen will pay for it anyway, when the insurance company increases his premium. I think that Allen spent a lot more by amnestying instead of medically retiring

 

[BrianFromWA]

it was so that we could offer Crawford 5M instead of 3M.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

wolves are now the non blazer team i hate the least, but i still hate them

 

[bigbailes]

What is with Blazer fans and the fascination of retiring jersey's? Seriously, the guy was good and all but he never won a playoff series and we're going to hang #7 up at the RG?

 

[Minstrel]

2) Had management gotten the league's permission to medically retire him, insurance would have paid most.

I seem to recall that Roy was one of the five or so players that the standard league insurance didn't cover.

 

[OLDSchool_BlazerFAN]

What is with Blazer fans and the fascination of retiring jersey's? Seriously, the guy was good and all but he never won a playoff series and we're going to hang #7 up at the RG?

Are we really retiring his number!?!??! I love B but man. Like you said. He never won us a Playoff Series!

 

[PapaG]

Where is the proof that he was "pressured into retirement"? What difference did it make to the Blazers if he was going to be amnestied? It was not a forced medical retirement, a la Darius, where insurance would have picked it up.

He "retired", took a year off, and is now unretired. Its clever, but total bullshit form a Blazer POV.

Where is the proof the "gamed the system". Portland could have tried to medically retire him, but the amnesty clause in the CBA made that option unnecessary, and was a cleaner separation for Portland that couldn't be messed up by another team (a la Chris Wallace/Darius Miles).

 

[bigbailes]

Are we really retiring his number!?!??! I love B but man. Like you said. He never won us a Playoff Series!

This is the fascination of many on this board and I think many Blazer fans in general. They see all the guys up there that don't really deserve it and think "Roy's was as good if not better then most of them, so he belongs" when in reality it's that most of the guys up there don't belong. I mean the Lakers have 7 guys hanging in the rafters, that jumper will jump to 9 soon but it still won't match the 10 we currently have.

 

[bigbailes]

At least we haven't retired Jordan's #23 a la the Miami Heat.

 

[Stevenson]

HERE'S THE QUESTION: Did we amnesty Roy because he retired, or did her retire because we amnestied him?

One makes us look smart, and one makes us look like fools. Either way, something is fishy about the whole thing. Here is the face of franchise back, less than a year later, playing on a different team.

 

[Minstrel]

HERE'S THE QUESTION: Did we amnesty Roy because he retired, or did her retire because we amnestied him?

The Blazers amnestied Roy because paying franchise player money to someone who's probably done as even an average player (when playing time is factored in) is franchise-crippling.

So, the second one. It seems pretty obvious to me unless you can explain to me why the Blazers would be better off with a massive salary on their salary structure for a player who's shot.

 

[Natebishop3]

HERE'S THE QUESTION: Did we amnesty Roy because he retired, or did her retire because we amnestied him?

One makes us look smart, and one makes us look like fools. Either way, something is fishy about the whole thing. Here is the face of franchise back, less than a year later, playing on a different team.

Aldridge has been the real face of the franchise for two years now. Brandon should have stayed retired.

 

[PapaG]

Aldridge has been the real face of the franchise for two years now. Brandon should have stayed retired.

Why? He's 28 years-old and hasn't played in a game since he was 26. It's all he's ever known in his life.

I think a lot of people underestimate the ego and self-belief it takes to be truly world-class at anything. Most of us, myself included, live mediocre work lives in terms of what we offer the marketplace and are easily replaceable, but Roy was literally one of the best in the world at what he did. I guess I don't see why people are so surprised he wants to give it another shot. How many All-Star level athletes quietly walk away from the game in their primes, even if they've had injury issues.

Barry Sanders and Jim Brown are the only two I can think of in a span of 50 years, and neither had major injuries, which makes their decision all the more rare.

Bill Walton 'came back' repeatedly and now can barely walk. Grant Hill missed years of his career while of "prime" age, yet still came back. I'd say that's more the norm than a guy who just says "well, I gave it a shot, but these darn knees just won't do it".

 

[Natebishop3]

Why? He's 28 years-old and hasn't played in a game since he was 26. It's all he's ever known in his life.

I think a lot of people underestimate the ego and self-belief it takes to be truly world-class at anything. Most of us, myself included, live mediocre work lives in terms of what we offer the marketplace and are easily replaceable, but Roy was literally one of the best in the world at what he did. I guess I don't see why people are so surprised he wants to give it another shot. How many All-Star level athletes quietly walk away from the game in their primes, even if they've had injury issues.

Barry Sanders and Jim Brown are the only two I can think of in a span of 50 years, and neither had major injuries, which makes their decision all the more rare.

Bill Walton 'came back' repeatedly and now can barely walk. Grant Hill missed years of his career while of "prime" age, yet still came back. I'd say that's more the norm than a guy who just says "well, I gave it a shot, but these darn knees just won't do it".

I didn't say that I don't understand why he is trying to play again. I said he should have stayed retired. He is going to fail. His knees will not magically heal themselves and he will have to retire again. I'm guessing he'll at least make it through one season before he decides to hang em up. He should have just saved himself all the trouble and pain that he will suffer en route to finally realizing that he can't do what he used to, and the eventual acceptance that he is done. If he needs to do this to get closure, so be it, and I have no hard feelings towards him, but ultimately it will be a waste of time and it's possible he could do more damage to his knees in the process.

 

[Minstrel]

I didn't say that I don't understand why he is trying to play again. I said he should have stayed retired.

Yeah, but that's easier said than done, especially when it isn't your life and dream. This is all he's worked towards for the majority of his life and if he feels he has to make every effort to keep it alive before it's gone for good, I really can't disagree with him.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, but that's easier said than done, especially when it isn't your life and dream. This is all he's worked towards for the majority of his life and if he feels he has to make every effort to keep it alive before it's gone for good, I really can't disagree with him.

Well, I've said before that I think it's unfortunate that Roy never really got closure in his final year with the Blazers. He was out for a long period of time and then he tried to play at the end of the season and wasn't back all the way. At least this way he'll get a full season or two and can fully evaluate his capabilities. With that said, I still think he's wasting his time and it's possible he could do further damage to his knees in the process. Is that worth it? He doesn't need money. He accomplished quite a bit in his five years with the Blazers, and at this point he has no hope of ever returning to his All-Star form, so what is he hoping to achieve? If he was hoping to win a championship, he signed with the wrong team.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

1) If he had voluntarily retired, it's like quitting a job. Allen would owe him nothing. 2) Had management gotten the league's permission to medically retire him, insurance would have paid most. 3) But they amnestied him. If insurance for amnesty exists then like flood insurance, it may not be standard in most policies. If any was covered, I doubt it was much. And Allen will pay for it anyway, when the insurance company increases his premium. I think that Allen spent a lot more by amnestying instead of medically retiring

I dont think him being amnestied would have any impact on insurance since the amnesty rule wasnt around when Roy's insurance policy would have been written up. I think that if he does end up playing for Minni, it will eliminate any insurance relief the Trail Blazers would have gotten. It'd be nice if a local reporter got to the bottom of this.

 

[Minstrel]

With that said, I still think he's wasting his time and it's possible he could do further damage to his knees in the process. Is that worth it? He doesn't need money. He accomplished quite a bit in his five years with the Blazers, and at this point he has no hope of ever returning to his All-Star form, so what is he hoping to achieve? If he was hoping to win a championship, he signed with the wrong team.

I don't think it's any more complicated than to keep after what he built his life around until it's simply no longer possible. I don't think it's about money (though, of course, like almost any person, he'll take the money he can get) or about winning a title at this point.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't think it's any more complicated than to keep after what he built his life around until it's simply no longer possible. I don't think it's about money (though, of course, like almost any person, he'll take the money he can get) or about winning a title at this point.

I don't think it's about money either.... Minnesota offered him a nice deal and he took it. I totally understand why he's doing it. I get it. I'm just saying I think it's pointless and I would be interested to hear what kind of damage he could do to his knees (if any) by playing again.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I seem to recall that Roy was one of the five or so players that the standard league insurance didn't cover.

PA took the savings from the last (non-guaranteed) year of his contract and bought a policy.

 

[Minstrel]

PA took the savings from the last (non-guaranteed) year of his contract and bought a policy.

Ah, okay.