Notice Do. Not. Trade. Shaedon

[THE HCP]

I think if the team gets shafted in the draft, it'll be a really really bad summer for the team.

You think the SUMMER is going to be really bad…. Just wait til the damn season hits FAMS!

 

[hoopsjock]

All of the cost savings moves done the past couple of years were done with the intent of staying under the LT so as to avoid starting the repeater penalties early. If people can’t understand that, they should really take the time to study the issue on Larry Coons’ CBA FAQ page. How anyone could conclude that the Blazers are cheap after giving Dame a monstrous extension, giving significant extensions to Simons and Nurk, and paying Grant with the intent of giving him a huge new contract, I’ll never understand.

There is revenue sharing in the NBA. The Blazers just received an over $30 million payout for last season. They got a luxury tax payment last season too. They'll receive another $15 million in luxury tax payments this year. As long as you stay out of the tax, the NBA is set up to make money, not to mention the insane value of the franchise itself. Spending up to the tax line isn't an indication that an owner isn't cheap. Also, having Dame request a trade because you refused to re-sign Nurk and Ant isn't a good business decision either. They're doing the bare minimum to keep him just happy enough while not fully going all-in financially.

It's certainly Jody's right to avoid the tax if she wants, but again I'm having trouble coming up with examples of teams that for multiple seasons based every transaction on not only avoiding the tax but setting themselves up to keep avoiding it. Can you think of any?

By the way, last year they ended up almost $15 million under the tax with TPE's and the MLE going unused. This year they're going to end up over $6 million under the tax with TPE's and the BAE unused. How do we know Jody would even approve a trade for a star if it puts them into the tax? She wasn't even willing to sign a backup center when Nurk went down (would've cost about $500k to sign Noel or whoever).

As for the repeater tax, it's the most over used excuse for a cheap owner. The only real penalty is it costs the owner more money. Sure, I don't expect to be a tax team for no reason, but it is absolutely making it harder to make trades when Cronin can't even add salary for next year in moves. Now that they've been out of the tax for 3 seasons, they'd have to be in the tax the next 4 years and only in that 4th year they'd have to pay the repeater tax. If they aren't in the tax that 4th year it wouldn't matter. That means anyone who mentions the repeater tax this summer doesn't know what they're talking about because it doesn't matter or apply at all to this situation anymore.

 

[hoopsjock]

The G League team is a point for your argument. Cronin’s hiring I would chalk up to a belief in Joe based on his long record with the team. It also fits with the notion that he’s a placeholder until the team is sold. Take your pick, I don’t think it says much about Jody being cheap.

The Blazers will have the full non-taxpayer MLE available to them this summer as a result of staying under the LT. If they don’t use that to add a quality player, then the whole argument about the value of having stayed under the LT fizzles. Feel free to rub my nose in it if that happens.

This season has no bearing on this summer's available MLE. It only matters what their total salary is next year. Using the Full-MLE will once again hard cap them too.

 

[hoopsjock]

What is the salary situation in Memphis and Sacramento, compared to the LA Clippers?
Are the Clippers trying to win more than Memphis and Sacramento?
Are Memphis and Sacramento looking to sell their teams? Their team salaries are lower than Portland's, and much lower than the Clippers'.
I don't see the correlation.
In the Western Conference:
Denver is in 1st place. Their team salary is 8th.
Memphis is in 2nd place. Their team salary is 26th.
Sacramento is in 3rd place. Their team salary is 24th.

The Blazers had the highest payroll in 2019-2020, but still cut salary at the deadline by trading Skal. It's not as simple as just looking at the total cap.

The question is, will Memphis and Sacramento's respective owners be willing to do whatever it takes to win like Ballmer is trying to do. Once they have to start paying people, will they pony up the cash or will it cost them key players and hamper their ability to make further moves? Yet to be determined for those teams.

 

[hoopsjock]

Last night is exactly why I have this .005% doubt of Sharpe being elite. Last night Pelicans fronted Sharpe the 1st 3 quarters and Sharpe was content to stand around. Does he have that fire that makes players like Kobe, MJ, and and Dame special? They might have bad games but they give max effort at all times and they take tough challenges like last nights defense as an opportunity to prove something.

Please don’t take this wrong I’m not ripping on him he’s a kid and will have to learn. But if there is any red flags for me with this kid that would be one.

Kobe only averaged 7.6 points per game his rookie season and had multiple games where he struggled or was taken out of a game by good defense. MJ had a ton of experience in college learning how to play before his rookie year. I get why people would think he's being too passive, but there is definitely a learning curve for player's when defenses start to key on them more. For Shae, New Orleans' WHOLE game plan was to take him out of the game. That's not something he was prepared for. He saw it a little bit against the Bulls with Caruso on him. I wouldn't worry about this though until later into his 2nd or 3rd seasons.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

Kobe only averaged 7.6 points per game his rookie season and had multiple games where he struggled or was taken out of a game by good defense. MJ had a ton of experience in college learning how to play before his rookie year. I get why people would think he's being too passive, but there is definitely a learning curve for player's when defenses start to key on them more. For Shae, New Orleans' WHOLE game plan was to take him out of the game. That's not something he was prepared for. He saw it a little bit against the Bulls with Caruso on him. I wouldn't worry about this though until later into his 2nd or 3rd seasons.

I agree I expect him to have tough games especially as young as he is. I love that a team decided to dedicate a player to face guard him for entire game with the defender having no other responsibilities besides shutting Sharpe down (that’s respect)! Looking forward to seeing how he plays the rest of the year, Pelicans won’t be last team to throw special defenses at him

 

[e_blazer]

So last summer wasn't put up or shut up time.... What's so different about this upcoming summer that wasn't possible last summer?

Blazers had an expiring contract in Bledsoe to add a talent such as John Collins or Julius Randle. Blazers had a great bench player/acceptable starter in Hart. Blazers had an extra year of Dame's prime. Now they'll have none of those, oh but they'll have luxury tax flexibility in 2028.

This season has no bearing on this summer's available MLE. It only matters what their total salary is next year. Using the Full-MLE will once again hard cap them too.

Good point. I wasn’t thinking correctly about that.

I think that people use the “Jody wouldn’t pay” excuse too much. We don’t know the internal decision making parameters. I think Joe looked to make a deal before the deadline that likely would have put the Blazers over the cap this season. It was reported that they had a potential deal lined up, but that the cost was too great. Some people read that as Jody and the Vulcans being too cheap. It could just as well be that Joe thought the other team was trying to bend him over a table and decided there would be better options this summer. People are free to believe what they want, but should at least be willing to admit that they don’t really know.

A big percentage of a new GM making their mark is dependent on things breaking their way. We know that Joe was aiming for a quick rebuild last summer, but that his play for another first from the Pelicans blew up in his face. He didn’t get much luck with the ping pong balls either.

To me, it seems obvious that Cronin is doing everything he can to be in a position to make a big splash this summer. He went full tank mode pretty early. Probably the decision not to bring in another center was predicated on knowing that he wanted a lottery pick. Trading Hart got the Knicks’ pick. I would wager that gets passed on to the Bulls in exchange for the floating one the Blazers already owe them. That would free up a whole string of future firsts that can be used to make a deal this summer.

 

[e_blazer]

So last summer wasn't put up or shut up time.... What's so different about this upcoming summer that wasn't possible last summer?

Blazers had an expiring contract in Bledsoe to add a talent such as John Collins or Julius Randle. Blazers had a great bench player/acceptable starter in Hart. Blazers had an extra year of Dame's prime. Now they'll have none of those, oh but they'll have luxury tax flexibility in 2028.

When’s the last time you saw an expiring contract be a major factor in an NBA trade? Honest question. It seems like those assets just aren’t a major factor anymore. They used to be important for teams looking to clear cap space for major free agents, but free agency isn’t what it used to be. Most of the big fish force trades and then sign extensions.

 

[hoopsjock]

When’s the last time you saw an expiring contract be a major factor in an NBA trade? Honest question. It seems like those assets just aren’t a major factor anymore. They used to be important for teams looking to clear cap space for major free agents, but free agency isn’t what it used to be. Most of the big fish force trades and then sign extensions.

It's not the expiring contract that's valuable, it's the ability to use that contract to attach to the assets they do have (i.e. the picks) to match salary in a trade.

For example, if they had Wiseman's contract this summer and got say the 4th pick, if OG or whoever became available for that pick instead of something like Wiseman/Keon/#4 for OG they'd have to include one of Nurk or Ant, or both Nas and Sharpe and Keon or whatever, which causes other holes to fill then. It's likely the difference between building a better team and rearranging pieces in hopes it's better.

 

[hoopsjock]

The Lakers just got 3 quality players using a big expiring contract and just one 1st round pick.

 

[e_blazer]

It's not the expiring contract that's valuable, it's the ability to use that contract to attach to the assets they do have (i.e. the picks) to match salary in a trade.

For example, if they had Wiseman's contract this summer and got say the 4th pick, if OG or whoever became available for that pick instead of something like Wiseman/Keon/#4 for OG they'd have to include one of Nurk or Ant, or both Nas and Sharpe and Keon or whatever, which causes other holes to fill then. It's likely the difference between building a better team and rearranging pieces in hopes it's better.

I’m aware that they still are important assets, just that they aren’t all that useful by themselves. As you said, they make good salary filler for a trade based on other players.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

When’s the last time you saw an expiring contract be a major factor in an NBA trade? Honest question. It seems like those assets just aren’t a major factor anymore. They used to be important for teams looking to clear cap space for major free agents, but free agency isn’t what it used to be. Most of the big fish force trades and then sign extensions.

It happened last month and happens virtually every offseason as well as every trade deadline;

The Lakers got numerous rotational players for Russell Westbrook expiring contract
The Suns got Kevin Durant for multiple players including Jae Crowder expiring contract, who hadn't played all season

Yes the Blazers might have had to put in some picks or other assets; but there were numerous rotation/starter level/borderline allstar players available in the summer and the Blazers didn't make a move to acquire any of them. Instead they pocketed the cash savings of cutting Bledsoe.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I’m aware that they still are important assets, just that they aren’t all that useful by themselves. As you said, they make good salary filler for a trade based on other players.

Sure, but the Blazers didn't package them with other assets to improve the team; they pocketed the cash. Same as the Clippers trade, the Pelicans trade, the Knicks trade, and the Warrior trade.

You state how fans don't have proof and know Jody is cheap. Well how do you know she isn't the cheapest owner in the NBA? Of course we all don't have every detail of information that could be out there. But we can look at the evidence, and trends that are out there and make conclusions. Its perfectly reasonable to suspect Jody is a cheap owner that does nothing to put this franchise in a position to succeed, because she hasn't demonstrated otherwise and the franchise currently sucks ass.

 

[wizenheimer]

Blazers had an expiring contract in Bledsoe to add a talent such as John Collins or Julius Randle. Blazers had a great bench player/acceptable starter in Hart. Blazers had an extra year of Dame's prime. Now they'll have none of those, oh but they'll have luxury tax flexibility in 2028.

c'mon...are you stuck in RLEC loop? If I could pick one type of asset that is the most overrated by fans it would be expiring contracts. Maybe Portland could have leveraged EBEC; maybe they couldn't have. We don't really know

but lets take your two examples:

John Collins - there's nothing really indicating Atlanta would have done the deal, but it would pretty obviously had to be Bledsoe + #7. So then, Portland would have Collins but not the upside of Sharpe. And there is no reason to believe the Vulcans would have approved paying both Collins AND Grant. So it's very likely it would have been a case of just plugging Collins into Grant's role....and not having Sharpe's upside. That's not a better team and it doesn't have a better future

Julius Randle - while I think the John Collins idea is mostly pie in the sky, this one seems more realistic. Although I am skeptical that the Knicks would have sent the 11th pick along with Randle. If they had and Portland would have drafted Jalen Williams (a good substitute for Sharpe) or Jalen Duren (needed length), then yes, it may have been a little better situation than now. But only if Randle didn't bring his bad baggage along....kind of an important if. But again, I do not believe that Seattle would have allowed Cronin to add Randle and Grant so I don't think the Blazers would be in a much better situation

maybe the best outcome of the Randle trade (since I'm very skeptical of the Collins idea) is that having Randle's contract on the books may have forced Cronin into some negotiating discipline with Ant and Nurk last summer. He sure as hell needed some

in other words, I think you're exaggerating the likelihood and/or benefit of those two hypothetical trade at the same time you're underrating the ancillary impacts

*************************************************

Hart? - the interview with him when the Knicks came to town made it really clear that the Blazers were not going to re-sign Hart unless they massively overpaid. Hart, AND his wife, were pretty determined to get back east. To get Thybulle, Reddish, and a 1st for Hart is a good parlay considering the alternative was bupkis.

 

[e_blazer]

It happened last month and happens virtually every offseason as well as every trade deadline;

The Lakers got numerous rotational players for Russell Westbrook expiring contract
The Suns got Kevin Durant for multiple players including Jae Crowder expiring contract, who hadn't played all season

Yes the Blazers might have had to put in some picks or other assets; but there were numerous rotation/starter level/borderline allstar players available in the summer and the Blazers didn't make a move to acquire any of them. Instead they pocketed the cash savings of cutting Bledsoe.

Sure, Cronin could have made other moves and added more role players. Seems to me that he’s trying to get his Big 3 set first. Role players could have helped the Blazers make the playoffs, but they couldn’t make them contenders. That would have been the Olshey move that would have ensured continued mediocrity. Haven’t we been bitching about that for the past decade or so?

 

[hoopsjock]

Also, last summer the Blazers had the big TPE which they used to acquire Grant. Instead of a $21 million TPE this summer, they have an $8 million one. That also limits what they can do. Combine that with having at least 6 of their 15 roster spots being free agents and 3 of the remaining 9 being team options/non-guaranteed, that leaves them with only Nurk, Ant, Sharpe, Nas, and Keon as their only other salary filler. Again limiting the avenues they have to improve the team while selling it as the opposite.

 

[e_blazer]

It happened last month and happens virtually every offseason as well as every trade deadline;

The Lakers got numerous rotational players for Russell Westbrook expiring contract
The Suns got Kevin Durant for multiple players including Jae Crowder expiring contract, who hadn't played all season

Yes the Blazers might have had to put in some picks or other assets; but there were numerous rotation/starter level/borderline allstar players available in the summer and the Blazers didn't make a move to acquire any of them. Instead they pocketed the cash savings of cutting Bledsoe.

There’s nothing wrong with pocketing cash unless that’s the sole motivation. I’m assuming that Cronin has a plan and that it’s to build his Big 3 first and then fill in the role players around them. Picking up a string of decent role players before setting the Big 3 is counterproductive because you never end up contending and your assets are only worth other mid level assets. Welcome to Olsheyville.

 

[hoopsjock]

c'mon...are you stuck in RLEC loop? If I could pick one type of asset that is the most overrated by fans it would be expiring contracts. Maybe Portland could have leveraged EBEC; maybe they couldn't have. We don't really know

but lets take your two examples:

John Collins - there's nothing really indicating Atlanta would have done the deal, but it would pretty obviously had to be Bledsoe + #7. So then, Portland would have Collins but not the upside of Sharpe. And there is no reason to believe the Vulcans would have approved paying both Collins AND Grant. So it's very likely it would have been a case of just plugging Collins into Grant's role....and not having Sharpe's upside. That's not a better team and it doesn't have a better future

Julius Randle - while I think the John Collins idea is mostly pie in the sky, this one seems more realistic. Although I am skeptical that the Knicks would have sent the 11th pick along with Randle. If they had and Portland would have drafted Jalen Williams (a good substitute for Sharpe) or Jalen Duren (needed length), then yes, it may have been a little better situation than now. But only if Randle didn't bring his bad baggage along....kind of an important if. But again, I do not believe that Seattle would have allowed Cronin to add Randle and Grant so I don't think the Blazers would be in a much better situation

maybe the best outcome of the Randle trade (since I'm very skeptical of the Collins idea) is that having Randle's contract on the books may have forced Cronin into some negotiating discipline with Ant and Nurk last summer. He sure as hell needed some

in other words, I think you're exaggerating the likelihood and/or benefit of those two hypothetical trade at the same time you're underrating the ancillary impacts

*************************************************

Hart? - the interview with him when the Knicks came to town made it really clear that the Blazers were not going to re-sign Hart unless they massively overpaid. Hart, AND his wife, were pretty determined to get back east. To get Thybulle, Reddish, and a 1st for Hart is a good parlay considering the alternative was bupkis.

I'm pretty sure you've said the exact same things about TPE's in the past and the Blazers used a massive one last summer. Just because previous GM's failed to take advantage of all of their ways to improve the team and weren't creative, doesn't mean the current one should be given a pass for not doing so.

 

[e_blazer]

Also, last summer the Blazers had the big TPE which they used to acquire Grant. Instead of a $21 million TPE this summer, they have an $8 million one. That also limits what they can do. Combine that with having at least 6 of their 15 roster spots being free agents and 3 of the remaining 9 being team options/non-guaranteed, that leaves them with only Nurk, Ant, Sharpe, Nas, and Keon as their only other salary filler. Again limiting the avenues they have to improve the team while selling it as the opposite.

If Cronin is going to score an All-Star level talent this summer he’s going to either have to hit it big in the lottery to get a trade asset that will entice a trade centered around Simons and/or Nurk, or free up enough future firsts, probably by selling the Bulls on taking the Knicks’ pick, to do the same thing.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm pretty sure you've said the exact same things about TPE's in the past and the Blazers used a massive one last summer. Just because previous GM's failed to take advantage of all of their ways to improve the team and weren't creative, doesn't mean the current one should be given a pass for not doing so.

you'd be wrong

 

[blazerkor]

If Cronin is going to score an All-Star level talent this summer he’s going to either have to hit it big in the lottery to get a trade asset that will entice a trade centered around Simons and/or Nurk, or free up enough future firsts, probably by selling the Bulls on taking the Knicks’ pick, to do the same thing.

That's what he'll have to do. He might also use the Knicks pick in a package and just guarantee the Bulls our pick next season by sending them a second or something. Regardless if we kept our first rounder he would have 4 firsts to deal and if we don't he has 5 firsts to deal.

 

[hoopsjock]

There’s nothing wrong with pocketing cash unless that’s the sole motivation. I’m assuming that Cronin has a plan and that it’s to build his Big 3 first and then fill in the role players around them. Picking up a string of decent role players before setting the Big 3 is counterproductive because you never end up contending and your assets are only worth other mid level assets. Welcome to Olsheyville.

But his point is that Cronin/Jody have made it harder to get that "Big 3" because of their cheapness. Did you know if the Nets called the Blazers last summer and said "KD is a bitch and we're sick of him so we're going to give him to you and all you have to do is give us matching salary" the Blazers literally couldn't do it unless Dame was the player going back. Extreme example for sure, but how does that translate into they're trying to get their Big 3 to you? Wouldn't what @WesleyMatthews has suggested have made it easier to do so if the right opportunity comes along? That's the whole point about trading for and keeping contracts on the books. Bledsoe wouldn't have helped us win anymore games.

 

[e_blazer]

But his point is that Cronin/Jody have made it harder to get that "Big 3" because of their cheapness. Did you know if the Nets called the Blazers last summer and said "KD is a bitch and we're sick of him so we're going to give him to you and all you have to do is give us matching salary" the Blazers literally couldn't do it unless Dame was the player going back. Extreme example for sure, but how does that translate into they're trying to get their Big 3 to you? Wouldn't what @WesleyMatthews has suggested have made it easier to do so if the right opportunity comes along? That's the whole point about trading for and keeping contracts on the books. Bledsoe wouldn't have helped us win anymore games.

If we’re going to play imaginary trades that would make the Blazers contenders I’ll take Nurk, TPE’s, and ending contracts for Giannis.

Everything points to Cronin locking in on using picks and current contracts to try to make a big deal this summer. You may not like that strategy. I’ve acknowledged in other posts that he may well whiff this summer, but he deserves a shot to see if he can make it happen. A bunch of role players to use in hypothetical trades just means that the Blazers finish higher this year, lose in the first round, and have lower value first round picks that don’t bring as much back in trades this summer.

 

[Whyachi]

If we’re going to play imaginary trades that would make the Blazers contenders I’ll take Nurk, TPE’s, and ending contracts for Giannis.

Everything points to Cronin locking in on using picks and current contracts to try to make a big deal this summer. You may not like that strategy. I’ve acknowledged in other posts that he may well whiff this summer, but he deserves a shot to see if he can make it happen. A bunch of role players to use in hypothetical trades just means that the Blazers finish higher this year, lose in the first round, and have lower value first round picks that don’t bring as much back in trades this summer.

It's kind of a bummer to watch the Blazers get their ass kicked right now. All the cool kids are propsing imaginary trades and shaking the magic 8 ball.

 

[HailBlazers]

It's kind of a bummer to watch the Blazers get their ass kicked right now. All the cool kids are propsing imaginary trades and shaking the magic 8 ball.

And I'm sorry you can't use the Gift Horse Lakers as an example. There isn't a franchise in history that gets bailed out more.

 

[hoopsjock]

If we’re going to play imaginary trades that would make the Blazers contenders I’ll take Nurk, TPE’s, and ending contracts for Giannis.

Everything points to Cronin locking in on using picks and current contracts to try to make a big deal this summer. You may not like that strategy. I’ve acknowledged in other posts that he may well whiff this summer, but he deserves a shot to see if he can make it happen. A bunch of role players to use in hypothetical trades just means that the Blazers finish higher this year, lose in the first round, and have lower value first round picks that don’t bring as much back in trades this summer.

TPE's can't be combined with each other, contracts, or anything. That's why we've been saying to get expirings to trade this summer.

I provided an example of how even if they had the perfect trade to make a big 3 they couldn't even legally do it last summer, your response was to post an invalid trade. That's proving the point as to how hard Cronin has made his job this summer.

 

[THE HCP]

And I'm sorry you can't use the Gift Horse Lakers as an example. There isn't a franchise in history that gets bailed out more.

The hate is strong with this one…..

 

[e_blazer]

TPE's can't be combined with each other, contracts, or anything. That's why we've been saying to get expirings to trade this summer.

I provided an example of how even if they had the perfect trade to make a big 3 they couldn't even legally do it last summer, your response was to post an invalid trade. That's proving the point as to how hard Cronin has made his job this summer.

My post was supposed to be funny. Guess it missed the mark.

Cronin is betting that a combination of a young guy like Simons coupled with a bunch of future firsts and filler salaries will be enough to get a guy like Siakam. I guess we’ll find out if he’s right.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

There’s nothing wrong with pocketing cash unless that’s the sole motivation. I’m assuming that Cronin has a plan and that it’s to build his Big 3 first and then fill in the role players around them. Picking up a string of decent role players before setting the Big 3 is counterproductive because you never end up contending and your assets are only worth other mid level assets. Welcome to Olsheyville.

The Blazers pocketed cash instead of adding talent or assets to the team, with zero benefit except pocketing cash. Maybe you find nothing wrong with that, I just find it very disappointing that we went from Paul Allen setting records spending $100 million in 1999 to now being one of the thriftiest franchises in the league that places cost savings above winning.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

If Cronin is going to score an All-Star level talent this summer he’s going to either have to hit it big in the lottery to get a trade asset that will entice a trade centered around Simons and/or Nurk, or free up enough future firsts, probably by selling the Bulls on taking the Knicks’ pick, to do the same thing.

Freeing firsts is easy. Blazers could've done that last summer too.

The problem now is the Blazers have to send out their starting level players along with other assets to bring in this all-star. The Blazers don't have enough salary, rotational level talent, or picks to get this all done. Would flipping Bledsoe and a pick for Randle have put the Blazers in a position to contend? Would going into the tax to resign Hart have done it? Likely not, but they would've been closer. Instead they prioritized cost cutting moves that have put them in a worse position to pivot and build a contender going forward.