Notice Do. Not. Trade. Shaedon

[SharpesTriumph]

Everything points to Cronin locking in on using picks and current contracts to try to make a big deal this summer. You may not like that strategy. I’ve acknowledged in other posts that he may well whiff this summer, but he deserves a shot to see if he can make it happen. A bunch of role players to use in hypothetical trades just means that the Blazers finish higher this year, lose in the first round, and have lower value first round picks that don’t bring as much back in trades this summer.

What evidence exactly points to Cronin doing this? Lack of action at other times and your hope it will suddenly happen in the future?

Cronin whiffed at his first trade deadline, and he whiffed last offseason. Drafting Sharpe was a great gamble no matter how it plays out, but thats literally the only potential good long term move this franchise has made since Olshey left.

I'm all for moving on from Olshey, but I've seen no indication his right hand man for a decade is all the sudden going to unlock some new era of Blazers moves to build a contender.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Cronin is betting that a combination of a young guy like Simons coupled with a bunch of future firsts and filler salaries will be enough to get a guy like Siakam. I guess we’ll find out if he’s right.

Who knows maybe it will. But that doesn't mean all the stupid cost cutting move the Blazers have done going back to the Olshey firing were smart.

If the Blazers get Siakam for Ant and picks; that was not enabled by cost cutting. The Blazers could've done that but also been closer to contending if they'd maximized assets at prior opportunities.

 

[e_blazer]

Who knows maybe it will. But that doesn't mean all the stupid cost cutting move the Blazers have done going back to the Olshey firing were smart.

If the Blazers get Siakam for Ant and picks; that was not enabled by cost cutting. The Blazers could've done that but also been closer to contending if they'd maximized assets at prior opportunities.

You’re not happy with what Cronin’s done so far. I’m not happy with it either. I’m not happy that the Blazers are missing another playoff out of Dame’s remaining years. I’m not happy we’re having to watch another end of season tank job. I doubt that Joe is happy with where the team sits right now. I THINK I know what his general plan is to get competitive. I think it MAY work, but it also could fall flat or not be a big enough move to really change things.

I don’t waste time worrying about what I THINK Joe could have done differently. Nothing anyone can do about that now. I’m content, for now, watching Joe try to execute his plan. If it works, great. If it doesn’t, I won’t be surprised to see Dame push his way out of town. I will be among those calling for Joe’s head on a platter and yelling for new ownership. It won’t make a hill of beans difference, but status quo is not acceptable and Olshey-esque mediocrity shouldn’t be tolerated.

 

[Mediocre Man]

You’re not happy with what Cronin’s done so far. I’m not happy with it either. I’m not happy that the Blazers are missing another playoff out of Dame’s remaining years. I’m not happy we’re having to watch another end of season tank job. I doubt that Joe is happy with where the team sits right now. I THINK I know what his general plan is to get competitive. I think it MAY work, but it also could fall flat or not be a big enough move to really change things.

I don’t waste time worrying about what I THINK Joe could have done differently. Nothing anyone can do about that now. I’m content, for now, watching Joe try to execute his plan. If it works, great. If it doesn’t, I won’t be surprised to see Dame push his way out of town. I will be among those calling for Joe’s head on a platter and yelling for new ownership. It won’t make a hill of beans difference, but status quo is not acceptable and Olshey-esque mediocrity shouldn’t be tolerated.

What in the world should Cronin have done differently? Kept the gang together for more Olshey purgatory? He is adding assets for a trade

 

[blazerkor]

What in the world should Cronin have done differently? Kept the gang together for more Olshey purgatory? He is adding assets for a trade

This is always kind of an absurd question to ask because none of us have a fucking clue what Cronin knew was available and what he didn't pursue. We just don't know but I think most of us are in the same boat as Dame when he said he is sick of seeing other teams making big moves to get closer to contention while we pile up assets that don't help us win right now. Joe is on the clock with Dame and Joe will either make Dame happier or take the cowards way out and optimize kicking the can down the road by trading Dame for young players and picks, while using our picks and just do a youth rebuild.

 

[e_blazer]

What in the world should Cronin have done differently? Kept the gang together for more Olshey purgatory? He is adding assets for a trade

He could have gotten more lucky in last year’s draft and had the Pelicans play crappier so he would have gotten their pick.

 

[wizenheimer]

He could have gotten more lucky in last year’s draft and had the Pelicans play crappier so he would have gotten their pick.

question is would he have still made the Grant trade using that first. Because the Milwaukee pick was compensation for the Pels pick not conveying. If the Blazer had received the Pels pick, they weren't getting the Milwaukee pick

so the Blazers would have had the 7th and 11th picks last draft. Would they have drafted somebody like Duren and kept him? Or would they have sent a lottery pick for Grant? And if they had, would Detroit have given Portland something else?

 

[wizenheimer]

Cronin whiffed at his first trade deadline, and he whiffed last offseason.

it doesn't really matter how many times you claim Cronin whiffed last year at the trade deadline. A lot of us don't agree...at all, and never will. You don't have any real clue what was available for what he traded, other than what he got

I think he did what was absolutely necessary and that's complete the more painful parts of dismantling the olshey roster. I also think it's pretty obvious he was operating under limitations imposed by the Vulcans

I agree he didn't have a good off-season. He made a point to talk about how the Blazers needed more length, and then went out and hard-capped the team for a 6'2 player heading into off-season surgery. That was fucking stupid. And, if you take a more detailed look at the cap-space market last summer, I think it's a legitimate argument he overpaid for Ant and Nurk. No team was going to offer either player close to what Cronin paid

 

[SharpesTriumph]

What in the world should Cronin have done differently? Kept the gang together for more Olshey purgatory? He is adding assets for a trade

How about trades like Ainge did in Utah if Cronin wants to rebuild. Or trades like the Lakers did at the deadline if he wants to win with Dame.

Instead he trades for vets, then trades vets for picks, get hard caps, cuts salary, adds 6'3" backup forwards, overpays MLE talent 70million against no bidders. Overpays for some players then pinches pennies for others. He should've picked one plan from the get go and worked to execute it, not change the plan every few months.

Cronin has been a worse version of Olshey, with all his faults, most the same strengths except lacking the 2nd round pick track record. Makes sense since he was Neils lead assistant GM. Hell for all we know Cronin's been running every Blazers GM decision since Neil first arrived but just didn't do the PR conferences until last season. I guess we can be glad Cronin doesn't complain about valet parking.

Neil had what 1 year in the lottery in a decade? Cronin will have 2 in 15 months, with less young talent and worse veterans.

 

[julius]

How about trades like Ainge did in Utah if Cronin wants to rebuild. Or trades like the Lakers did at the deadline if he wants to win with Dame.

Instead he trades for vets, then trades vets for picks, get hard caps, cuts salary, adds 6'3" backup forwards, overpays MLE talent 70million against no bidders. Overpays for some players then pinches pennies for others. He should've picked one plan from the get go and worked to execute it, not change the plan every few months.

Cronin has been a worse version of Olshey, with all his faults, most the same strengths except lacking the 2nd round pick track record. Makes sense since he was Neils lead assistant GM. Hell for all we know Cronin's been running every Blazers GM decision since Neil first arrived but just didn't do the PR conferences until last season. I guess we can be glad Cronin doesn't complain about valet parking.

Neil had what 1 year in the lottery in a decade? Cronin will have 2 in 15 months, with less young talent and worse veterans.

this is one of the most nonsensical posts we've had in here in a long time.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

c'mon...are you stuck in RLEC loop? If I could pick one type of asset that is the most overrated by fans it would be expiring contracts. Maybe Portland could have leveraged EBEC; maybe they couldn't have. We don't really know

but lets take your two examples:

John Collins - there's nothing really indicating Atlanta would have done the deal, but it would pretty obviously had to be Bledsoe + #7. So then, Portland would have Collins but not the upside of Sharpe. And there is no reason to believe the Vulcans would have approved paying both Collins AND Grant. So it's very likely it would have been a case of just plugging Collins into Grant's role....and not having Sharpe's upside. That's not a better team and it doesn't have a better future

Julius Randle - while I think the John Collins idea is mostly pie in the sky, this one seems more realistic. Although I am skeptical that the Knicks would have sent the 11th pick along with Randle. If they had and Portland would have drafted Jalen Williams (a good substitute for Sharpe) or Jalen Duren (needed length), then yes, it may have been a little better situation than now. But only if Randle didn't bring his bad baggage along....kind of an important if. But again, I do not believe that Seattle would have allowed Cronin to add Randle and Grant so I don't think the Blazers would be in a much better situation

maybe the best outcome of the Randle trade (since I'm very skeptical of the Collins idea) is that having Randle's contract on the books may have forced Cronin into some negotiating discipline with Ant and Nurk last summer. He sure as hell needed some

in other words, I think you're exaggerating the likelihood and/or benefit of those two hypothetical trade at the same time you're underrating the ancillary impacts

*************************************************

Hart? - the interview with him when the Knicks came to town made it really clear that the Blazers were not going to re-sign Hart unless they massively overpaid. Hart, AND his wife, were pretty determined to get back east. To get Thybulle, Reddish, and a 1st for Hart is a good parlay considering the alternative was bupkis.

Sharpe is the only solid good thing Cronin has done so no I wouldn't change that.

Collins or Randle were apparently both available. Blazers could've likely put a future pick in to snag one of them, it didn't have to be #7. Instead the Blazers saved the cash cutting Bledsoe. Sure you can list a dozen reasons the trades might been difficult. There are a dozen other trades to bring in veteran talent the Blazers could've done. They didn't, they saved the cash. Maybe that's a Vulcan/Jody thing and not Cronin. Well it's also a GM job to manage the owner.

If Hart wasn't interested in being in Portland long term then it was Cronin fault for giving up CJ for him.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

You’re not happy with what Cronin’s done so far. I’m not happy with it either. I’m not happy that the Blazers are missing another playoff out of Dame’s remaining years. I’m not happy we’re having to watch another end of season tank job. I doubt that Joe is happy with where the team sits right now. I THINK I know what his general plan is to get competitive. I think it MAY work, but it also could fall flat or not be a big enough move to really change things.

I don’t waste time worrying about what I THINK Joe could have done differently. Nothing anyone can do about that now. I’m content, for now, watching Joe try to execute his plan. If it works, great. If it doesn’t, I won’t be surprised to see Dame push his way out of town. I will be among those calling for Joe’s head on a platter and yelling for new ownership. It won’t make a hill of beans difference, but status quo is not acceptable and Olshey-esque mediocrity shouldn’t be tolerated.

I want to see the Blazers make good decisions so this team can either win in the short term or win in the long term.

It's pretty obvious when poor decisions are being made IMO: Turner and Meyers overpaid contracts, pairing Melo defense with Kanter, having the two stars be short 6'3" poor defenders, signing GP2, letting assets expire for nothing but cash savings, overpaying MLE veterans 70million, having the two stars be short 6'3" poor defenders.

Maybe I'm wrong on a couple I think are bad or good, but overall I'd say when we see a dozen GM actions with clear trends we can make a fair judgment of that GMs performance.

If you want to watch the Cronin story with a bag of popcorn and wait a few years to make your judgement go ahead.

I'm going to complain immediately when the bad decisions happen and likewise praise any good decisions as well.

 

[e_blazer]

I want to see the Blazers make good decisions so this team can either win in the short term or win in the long term.

It's pretty obvious when poor decisions are being made IMO: Turner and Meyers overpaid contracts, pairing Melo defense with Kanter, having the two stars be short 6'3" poor defenders, signing GP2, letting assets expire for nothing but cash savings, overpaying MLE veterans 70million, having the two stars be short 6'3" poor defenders.

Maybe I'm wrong on a couple I think are bad or good, but overall I'd say when we see a dozen GM actions with clear trends we can make a fair judgment of that GMs performance.

If you want to watch the Cronin story with a bag of popcorn and wait a few years to make your judgement go ahead.

I'm going to complain immediately when the bad decisions happen and likewise praise any good decisions as well.

I’m pretty sure I said this summer is my timeline for judging Cronin as GM. If you want to make up my side of the conversation you can do it without me. Knock yourself out.

 

[wizenheimer]

Sharpe is the only solid good thing Cronin has done so no I wouldn't change that.

Collins or Randle were apparently both available. Blazers could've likely put a future pick in to snag one of them, it didn't have to be #7.

lol..right. All they had to do was make this year's pick unprotected...then they could have offered the 2o25 first....yeeesh

every time I've heard people talk about the supposed trade for Randle, it was always with the thought of the 7th pick for the 11th pick. What the Knicks wanted was that 7th pick. We have little evidence they were willing to pay the 11th and Randle for it

and the same would almost certainly be true for Collins.

your assertion that the Blazers could have offered a future pick, which they didn't have, plus Bledsoe, and landed Collins or Randle is baseless. In fact, it's loopy

Instead the Blazers saved the cash cutting Bledsoe. Sure you can list a dozen reasons the trades might been difficult. There are a dozen other trades to bring in veteran talent the Blazers could've done. They didn't, they saved the cash. Maybe that's a Vulcan/Jody thing and not Cronin. Well it's also a GM job to manage the owner.

in other words, you're suggesting there were anonymous imaginary trades and then using that vague assertion to bash Cronin.

step right up and gaze at the massive hypothetical value of Eric Bledsoe's expiring contract

If Hart wasn't interested in being in Portland long term then it was Cronin fault for giving up CJ for him.

lol...I enjoyed watching Hart as a Blazer for 60 games a lot more than watching CJ for 600 games. I'm very glad CJ isn't a Blazer any more. Good job Cronin doing what Olshey refused to do

 

[Mediocre Man]

How about trades like Ainge did in Utah if Cronin wants to rebuild. Or trades like the Lakers did at the deadline if he wants to win with Dame.

Instead he trades for vets, then trades vets for picks, get hard caps, cuts salary, adds 6'3" backup forwards, overpays MLE talent 70million against no bidders. Overpays for some players then pinches pennies for others. He should've picked one plan from the get go and worked to execute it, not change the plan every few months.

Cronin has been a worse version of Olshey, with all his faults, most the same strengths except lacking the 2nd round pick track record. Makes sense since he was Neils lead assistant GM. Hell for all we know Cronin's been running every Blazers GM decision since Neil first arrived but just didn't do the PR conferences until last season. I guess we can be glad Cronin doesn't complain about valet parking.

Neil had what 1 year in the lottery in a decade? Cronin will have 2 in 15 months, with less young talent and worse veterans.

Trades like Ainge did would have been to trade Dame. Boston got better because they traded their star players

Utah traded their star players

Cronin HAS picked a plan. He told everyone this was not a one year fix. So he added picks and young talent to make a move this summer to build around Dame…..which is the wrong plan, IMO

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I’m pretty sure I said this summer is my timeline for judging Cronin as GM. If you want to make up my side of the conversation you can do it without me. Knock yourself out.

You of course are free to judge Cronin however you want. He's already performed at two trade deadlines, one draft and one free agency. After this summer he will then have had 6 key opportunities to make improvements to this roster. I wouldn't ever judge a GM by a lack of action at a single one of these moments; it takes a counterparty to complete a transaction and we don't know if any reasonable offers will be available. So I don't believe its fair to demand he take action only this summer. It might be in the best interest of the Blazers to wait. But I certainly do judge a GM any time they complete an action, or once we've had enough periods of opportunities. Perhaps you have been waiting for Cronin to take a good winning action since Neil left and your deadline is this summer.

To me the biggest issues with Cronin are #1 The prioritizing of cash savings over talent; which is likely more a Jody/Vulcan thing but still is tied to Cronin performance.

#2 not having a consistent direction. If we are building for youth and the long term then we shouldn't acquire vets like Hart/Grant/cap space/GP2/overpay Nurk. If we are building to win now we shouldn't dump vets like Hart/Powell/ Nance/save Bledsoe cash/ maybe not even draft Sharpe. We shouldn't try to acquire financial "flexibility" in the Clippers/Pelicans trades only to throw away that flexibility by being hard capped. We shouldn't acquire a pick for Hart on an expiring contract but give up a pick for Grant on an expiring contract.

The time to decide on a clear long term direction for this franchise was when Neil was fired. I was hoping we would search for a great GM such as Ainge to come in, have a focused clear vision, and lead on to that new era. I was fine going young or going with veterans but it should've been one or the other. Instead the team handed Cronin, the cheapest GM option available, the authority to begin that change, and he took actions that consistently have reduced the talent on this team without having the means to replace it. Yes some fans just love any non Olshey action and were clamoring to have change for the sake of change.

We have a roster where every single Blazers player except Watford was acquired or signed by Cronin. The roster has very little veteran talent, very little young talent, and a lack of future draft assets. How anybody can be happy with the job Cronin has done is insane to me.

 

[Cugel]

I have no faith in the ownership/front office. I have not heard anyone in the media say "oh POR, now they are in a great position." or "POR is smart". It is not going to happen. It just ain't. Next years starting 5 is :

Dame
Ant
Thybulle
Grant
Nurk

 

[julius]

We have a roster where every single Blazers player except Watford was acquired or signed by Cronin. The roster has very little veteran talent, very little young talent, and a lack of future draft assets. How anybody can be happy with the job Cronin has done is insane to me.

Such an odd conclusion, especially since it was under Cronin that Watford had his contract changed from 2-way to a regular contract.

And it's also weird to credit Nurk, Simons, Little and Damian as "signed" by Cronin, since they were already on the team before he was made GM.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Such an odd conclusion, especially since it was under Cronin that Watford had his contract changed from 2-way to a regular contract.

And it's also weird to credit Nurk, Simons, Little and Damian as "signed" by Cronin, since they were already on the team before he was made GM.

Cronin resigned or extended all four of them.

I thought Watford current contract was under Olshey, if not then it's the entire team.

 

[andalusian]

Cronin resigned or extended all four of them.

I thought Watford current contract was under Olshey, if not then it's the entire team.

Only one of these that is "on" Cronin is Dame. He had to extend the others or there would be no replacement or contracts to trade. It's that simple.

As for extending Dame, that's probably the only way to ensure him the team is not being stripped for parts to become the Kings of 16 years ago.

So, I would still say that this is still all part of the recovery from the NeO regime.

 

[julius]

Only one of these that is "on" Cronin is Dame. He had to extend the others or there would be no replacement or contracts to trade. It's that simple.

As for extending Dame, that's probably the only way to ensure him the team is not being stripped for parts to become the Kings of 16 years ago.

So, I would still say that this is still all part of the recovery from the NeO regime.

They had some tough choices, including being forced to re-sign Nurk. But realistically, there was no plausible alternative way to go, at that point.

 

[blazerkor]

I have no faith in the ownership/front office. I have not heard anyone in the media say "oh POR, now they are in a great position." or "POR is smart". It is not going to happen. It just ain't. Next years starting 5 is :

Dame
Ant
Thybulle
Grant
Nurk

I'll tell you why you're wrong. Dame has said he isn't cool with how things are right now. If Cronin doesn't make a move that gets Dame an all star to play with on draft night then Dame will ask out before free agency starts. Cronin then will trade Dame and we'll get a good young player or two, a vet we don't really want and some future firsts that likely won't be lotto picks. He also will not re-sign Grant. I also think we'd dump Nurk in that case. So the starting lineup would likely be Ant, Shae, some young player we get in the Dame trade, our pick and the Knicks pick.

What I'm saying is that there is no staying with this status quo. We will either see a big move or moves on draft night or we'll see a big move with Dame being traded.

 

[Idog1976]

I'll tell you why you're wrong. Dame has said he isn't cool with how things are right now. If Cronin doesn't make a move that gets Dame an all star to play with on draft night then Dame will ask out before free agency starts. Cronin then will trade Dame and we'll get a good young player or two, a vet we don't really want and some future firsts that likely won't be lotto picks. He also will not re-sign Grant. I also think we'd dump Nurk in that case. So the starting lineup would likely be Ant, Shae, some young player we get in the Dame trade, our pick and the Knicks pick.

What I'm saying is that there is no staying with this status quo. We will either see a big move or moves on draft night or we'll see a big move with Dame being traded.

Gotta keep Sharpe (I wouldn't trade Sharpe for anything short of a Superstar wing or center in their prime right now) and Dame and trade anyone and anything else including this year's pick unless we land #1.

 

[Natebishop3]

Do. Not. Trade. Him.

 

[Phatguysrule]

So Jody is attending all these crappy games just to make money? Don't buy it.

And overpaying players to save money.

She could be attending games to show that she's not interested in selling. Trying to increase the value of offers.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I have no faith in the ownership/front office. I have not heard anyone in the media say "oh POR, now they are in a great position." or "POR is smart". It is not going to happen. It just ain't. Next years starting 5 is :

Dame
Ant
Thybulle
Grant
Nurk

Gotta start Sharpe over Ant.

 

[Labinot41]

 

[theprunetang]

No tradeon shaedon

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Giannis or if we get two of Bridges Brown Embiid Siakam. Those are the only players I trade Sharpe for.

Yeah those are all extremely unlikely trades - that's the point, he's nearly untradable.

I trade #3 or Dame before Sharpe.

 

[Natebishop3]

That's super cool.