Do you believe in Heaven and Hell? (1 Viewer)

[magnifier661]

Just relax, Mags. There are faithless people like me who understand that what faith is, and don't judge it. I'm envious of it at times.

Yeah I figured this after the last post. Some people don't understand faith. It's like love. You can't see it physically, u can't really explain it, but u know damn well it exists.

 

[PapaG]

crowTrobot - you are the only one of ABM/Mags/you who is judging anyone at this point.

 

[crowTrobot]

At some point, you're going to understand that logic and faith aren't related, right?

i understand that perfectly.

 

[crowTrobot]

Well, I suppose some are doing this. What about those who aren't Christians, or religious at all, but are anti-gay?

Duh

they're bigots, just not religious bigots. what about them?

 

[ABM]

I know. I kind of like it. I'm getting old(er), and am mostly interested in positive endeavors these days. Perhaps I lost my fastball, but I replaced it with a decent change-up.

Cool. You should consider changing your moniker to Charlie Hough.

 

[PapaG]

i understand that perfectly.

I don't think you do.

 

[PapaG]

they're bigots, just not religious bigots. what about them?

Who are you to assign a foundation for what you call bigotry?

 

[crowTrobot]

Wow.... You haven't explained a damn thing that supports me judging. And you are trying to twist my example of me judging a parent. No, I am saying both parents believe the same thing is wrong, but one was able to communicate that wrong to the child, while the other couldn't. That's called miscommunication. Not judging.

so the child that doesn't listen isn't wrong? something isn't a sin unless we believe it is?

i'm not trying to be argumentative, you just don't realize how little sense the concept of sin makes from a logical standpoint.

 

[crowTrobot]

crowTrobot - you are the only one of ABM/Mags/you who is judging anyone at this point.

i judge the logic of everyones statements about religion. it's a hobby.

 

[PapaG]

i'm not trying to be argumentative, you just don't realize how little sense the concept of sin makes from a logical standpoint.

The concept of sin isn't just a religious concept. I'm not a believer, but I know that murder is wrong. If I did believe, I would assume the God I believed in would judge sins, and that it wasn't my job.

You're making little sense in this thread, IMO, at least from a philosophical perspective.

 

[PapaG]

i judge the logic of everyones statements about religion. it's a hobby.

It's a futile hobby, and it shows your own lack of understanding of those you are judging.

JMO, though.

 

[crowTrobot]

Who are you to assign a foundation for what you call bigotry?

are you asking why i don't think homosexuality is immoral?

 

[magnifier661]

so the child that doesn't listen isn't wrong? something isn't a sin unless we believe it is?

i'm not trying to be argumentative, you just don't realize how little sense the concept of sin makes from a logical standpoint.

I am simplifying the concept into parenting because many people can understand. Think of the relationship between the parent and their child is god and us. The parent makes the rules to the child. The child chooses to obey or not and must face the level of consequence from that parent. So it has nothing to do if it's right or wrong by us. It's between the parent and child. So this is why I think you don't get it.

P.s. have you ever been in love? Do you love your parents? Siblings?

 

[crowTrobot]

It's a futile hobby, and it shows your own lack of understanding of those you are judging.

i understand very well, and even if there's no communication it's not futile if it helps me clarify my own thoughts or if someone else reading his thread gets anything out of it.

 

[crowTrobot]

I am simplifying the concept into parenting

you're simplifying the biblical concept of sin and punishment so it fits better with modern notions of morality and culpability.

 

[magnifier661]

you're simplifying the biblical concept of sin and punishment so it fits better with modern notions of morality and culpability.

Have u been in love? Do you love your parents, brothers, sisters, children, blazers?

 

[crowTrobot]

P.s. have you ever been in love? Do you love your parents? Siblings?

i don't think the concept of sin and punishment as described in the bible is analogous in any way to a parent teaching a child they love through discipline, if that's what you're getting at.

 

[PapaG]

i understand very well, and even if there's no communication it's not futile if it helps me clarify my own thoughts or if someone else reading his thread gets anything out of it.

You think you understand. I'll give you that. I don't see you as being too interested in clarifying your own thoughts, though. You seem more interested in logical "Gotcha" posts at this point, and that's not very fair to those who have faith.

It comes across as you passing judgement.

 

[magnifier661]

i don't think the concept of sin and punishment as described in the bible is analogous in any way to a parent teaching a child they love through discipline, if that's what you're getting at.

Nope that's not what I'm getting at. Just answer the question

 

[crowTrobot]

It comes across as you passing judgement.

i am passing judgement on faith. i think faith-based belief is in general counterproductive and dangerous and the world would be a better place without it.

 

[PapaG]

i am passing judgement on faith. i think faith-based belief is in general counterproductive and dangerous and the world would be a better place without it.

I know. As I said, you're the only one passing judgement in the thread, even as you're setting up hypothetical strawmen of generic Christians passing judgement on others.

It's called irony. Look into it.

 

[crowTrobot]

Nope that's not what I'm getting at. Just answer the question

i'm sure you don't need me to answer that to make your point. love is a subjective concept.

 

[PapaG]

i'm sure you don't need me to answer that to make your point. love is a subjective concept.

Yet here you are, trying to convince people that they shouldn't be in love, and passing judgement on them for being in love.

As I said, it's ironic.

 

[magnifier661]

i'm sure you don't need me to answer that to make your point. love is a subjective concept.

Why? Love isn't physical but u know it's there. You have completely contradicted yourself, saying that the belief of faith is destructive, yet belief in love is subjective. You can't pick and choose things to work in your debate, which is why you aren't realizing the difference of those that have faith and those that want concrete scientific logical description. Love is not logical, it's just there. Just like faith. And for you to think people or the belief of faith is wrong because you can't logically explain it would mean the same for love.

So let me ask you again. Have you ever been in love?

 

[crowTrobot]

Yet here you are, trying to convince people that they shouldn't be in love, and passing judgement on them for being in love.

i said that where? i don't think you even read my posts.

the only thing i'm trying to convince anyone of is faith isn't a means to objective truth.

 

[magnifier661]

i said that where? i don't think you even read my posts.

the only thing i'm trying to convince anyone of is faith isn't a means to objective truth.

So how can you prove love exists? So it must not exist according to your belief.

 

[crowTrobot]

Love isn't physical

it certainly is. the feeling of love is an evolved biophysical response, as are all human emotions.

 

[magnifier661]

it certainly is. the feeling of love is an evolved biophysical response, as are all human emotions.

What proof do you have that supports this claim? I don't believe it exists. You are contradicting yourself. So me love...

 

[crowTrobot]

What proof do you have that supports this claim?

scientific studies that show biophysical changes in the body corresponding to certain emotional feelings described as love,
consistent with a similar pattern found for all other emotions.

I don't believe it exists. You are contradicting yourself. So me love...

hu?

 

[magnifier661]

Psst...

Psychology depicts love as a cognitive and social phenomenon. Psychologist Robert Sternberg formulated a triangular theory of love and argued that love has three different components: intimacy, commitment, and passion. Intimacy is a form in which two people share confidences and various details of their personal lives, and is usually shown in friendships and romantic love affairs. Commitment, on the other hand, is the expectation that the relationship is permanent. The last and most common form of love is sexual attraction and passion. Passionate love is shown in infatuation as well as romantic love. All forms of love are viewed as varying combinations of these three components. American psychologist Zick Rubin sought to define love by psychometrics in the 1970s. His work states that three factors constitute love: attachment, caring, and intimacy.[19] [20]

Notice how it is described as a "social phenomenon"? Do you know what that means? Do you know that even today, professionals are still trying to explain factual explanations of love. Trying to ping physical and biological properties? Do you know they are all still theories? Do you know what theory means?