Does Stotts make it through the rest of the season?

[Tince]

LOL. Dude, just stop. You clearly can’t even remember what you write in your own posts. Here’s just a snippet I found in about five minutes of searching. Seems pretty clear that you feel coaching doesn’t matter. Perhaps we should create a poll in the next game thread and see how many in this forum subscribe to your theory about coaching and its lack of correlation to team success? Whaddya say?





And here you almost quote the exact phrase I referenced.

This is great, you have made my point for me in numerous examples by showing where I've established my opinion that coaches play some role...not a big role or not no role at all.

My consistent stance is that coaching is of small value, very much in line with how they are paid. Not one of those quotes says "Coaching doesn't make a difference." Doesn't take an English major to know there is a difference between "overrated" or "small role" and "doesn't make a difference".

Thank you for doing that!

 

[brooklynballer]

This is great, you have made my point for me in numerous examples that I point out that coaches plays some role, but not a big role or not no role at all.

My consistent stance is that coaching is of small value, very much in line with how they are paid. Not one of those quotes says "Coaching doesn't make a difference." Doesn't take an English major to know there is a difference between "overrated" or "small role" and "doesn't make a difference".

Lol. Semantics. You know exactly what point you were trying to make over and over again. Shows what kind of person you are to not even be man enough to admit your mistake, even when presented with irrefutable evidence. You literally say in one of the quotes that “coaching just doesn't really matter that much”.

 

[Tince]

Lol. Semantics. You know exactly what point you were trying to make over and over again. Shows what kind of person you are to not even be man enough to admit your mistake, even when presented with irrefutable evidence. You literally say in one of the quotes that “coaching just doesn't really matter that much”.

Again, I don't want to talk down to anyone, but the last two words in that sentence were there for a reason; they mean something different than if I had left them out.

If I said "I didn't eat that much for dinner" that would be a different statement than "I didn't eat dinner." You understand the difference, right? One is a measurement, the other is an absolute.

 

[brooklynballer]

Again, I don't want to talk down to anyone, but the last two words in that sentence were there for a reason; they mean something different than if I had left them out.

If I said "I didn't eat that much for dinner" that would be a different statement than "I didn't eat dinner." You understand the difference, right? One is a measurement, the other is an absolute.

I’m not getting into a back-and-forth with you over semantics. The premise of your theory is still that coaching plays an insignificant role on team success which, as anyone whose played team sports knows, is just pure malarkey. But, hey, keep pushing that ludicrous theory.

“[...] coaching just doesn't really matter that much.” LOL.

 

[brooklynballer]

I'll be called an apologist of the next coach as well, it comes with the territory when my stance is that coaching plays a very small role on overall team success.

I suggest you go educate yourself on this topic. This is one of the only studies that actually references a scientific study, as opposed to just an opinion piece. It was presented at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference.

https://global-uploads.webflow.com/5f1af76ed86d6771ad48324b/5f6d3840173db437f04da5ce_Do-Coaches-Matter.pdf

4.4. Basketball
Tables 4 and 5 show our results for the NBA and for Division 1 college basketball, respectively. In both cases, the estimated effects are substantively quite large. Coaches explain about 30 percent of the variation in points scored and allowed. One initially surprising result is that in college basketball, coaches matter more for points scored and allowed than they do for the point margin. One potential explanation is that coaches differ from each other in their preferences for fast- versus slow-paced games, with the fast-paced coaches both scoring and allowing more points. To explicitly test this hypothesis, we also test whether coaches matter for the total points scored in the game, and here, we detect a huge effect, confirming this hypothesis about different coaching styles.





NBA coaches explain about 32% of the variation in Points Scored.
NBA coaches explain about 28% of the variation in Points Allowed.
NBA coaches explain about 32% of the variation in Point Margin.
NBA coaches explain about 31% of the variation in Victory.

 

[Tince]

I suggest you go educate yourself on this topic. This is one of the only studies that actually references a scientific study, as opposed to just an opinion piece. It was presented at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference.

[COLOR=var(--accent-color)]https://global-uploads.webflow.com/5f1af76ed86d6771ad48324b/5f6d3840173db437f04da5ce_Do-Coaches-Matter.pdf[/COLOR]

4.4. Basketball
Tables 4 and 5 show our results for the NBA and for Division 1 college basketball, respectively. In both cases, the estimated effects are substantively quite large. Coaches explain about 30 percent of the variation in points scored and allowed. One initially surprising result is that in college basketball, coaches matter more for points scored and allowed than they do for the point margin. One potential explanation is that coaches differ from each other in their preferences for fast- versus slow-paced games, with the fast-paced coaches both scoring and allowing more points. To explicitly test this hypothesis, we also test whether coaches matter for the total points scored in the game, and here, we detect a huge effect, confirming this hypothesis about different coaching styles.

Thanks, I'll give this a read tomorrow, I'm always down for more research papers on hoops topics! I'll be interested how they adjust for talent, injuries, and all that good stuff.

Assuming you've already read all 25 pages, curious on how you feel about the controls in the study.

Here's another read on the topic regarding the impact of changing coaches, which I believe is the best (not perfect) way to measure the value of coaches:

https://freakonomics.com/2012/12/21/is-changing-the-coach-really-the-answer/

We find that for particularly poorly performing teams, coach replacements have little effect on team performance as measured against comparable teams that did not replace their coach. However, for teams with middling records—that is, teams where entry conditions for a new coach appear to be more favorable—replacing the head coach appears to result in worse performance over subsequent years than comparable teams who retained their coach.

 

[Tince]

I’m not getting into a back-and-forth with you over semantics. The premise of your theory is still that coaching plays an insignificant role on team success which, as anyone whose played team sports knows, is just pure malarkey. But, hey, keep pushing that ludicrous theory.

“[...] coaching just doesn't really matter that much.” LOL.

That quote is what I said and stand by, but it is still different than what you're saying I said. We're talking accuracy here, not semantics.

You telling me my premise is "pure malarkey" because "anyone who played steam sports knows." is clearly false. I played team sports further than most people, had coaches I still greatly respect to this day, and have coached for many years. Yet, I still feel the data and economics support the value of a coach being minimal. Especially as a coach who has had success (obviously not at the NBA level), that's a humbling conclusion to come to.

You could be right and all the NBA front office people don't realize the incredibly high value of a head coach; I haven't ruled that out, but I do think it's unlikely. I appreciate and respect your opinion, I don't think you're an idiot for thinking what you think, I simply don't agree.

I'll continue to repeat myself just so it is clear to everyone: I do not feel coaches have no value. I do not feel having no coach on the bench would yield the same results as having a coach on the bench. I do not feel Stotts is an amazing coach.

I feel Stotts is an ok coach. I think our roster make-up is by far a bigger issue than our coaching. I believe the next coach will not get past the WCF until an all-star wing/post is added to the roster.

 

[brooklynballer]

I suggest you go educate yourself on this topic. This is one of the only studies that actually references a scientific study, as opposed to just an opinion piece. It was presented at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference.

[COLOR=var(--accent-color)]https://global-uploads.webflow.com/5f1af76ed86d6771ad48324b/5f6d3840173db437f04da5ce_Do-Coaches-Matter.pdf[/COLOR]

4.4. Basketball
Tables 4 and 5 show our results for the NBA and for Division 1 college basketball, respectively. In both cases, the estimated effects are substantively quite large. Coaches explain about 30 percent of the variation in points scored and allowed. One initially surprising result is that in college basketball, coaches matter more for points scored and allowed than they do for the point margin. One potential explanation is that coaches differ from each other in their preferences for fast- versus slow-paced games, with the fast-paced coaches both scoring and allowing more points. To explicitly test this hypothesis, we also test whether coaches matter for the total points scored in the game, and here, we detect a huge effect, confirming this hypothesis about different coaching styles.

Thanks, I'll give this a read tomorrow, I'm always down for more research papers on hoops topics! I'll be interested how they adjust for talent, injuries, and all that good stuff.

Assuming you've already read all 25 pages, curious on how you feel about the controls in the study.

Here's another read on the topic regarding the impact of changing coaches, which I believe is the best (not perfect) way to measure the value of coaches:

https://freakonomics.com/2012/12/21/is-changing-the-coach-really-the-answer/

We find that for particularly poorly performing teams, coach replacements have little effect on team performance as measured against comparable teams that did not replace their coach. However, for teams with middling records—that is, teams where entry conditions for a new coach appear to be more favorable—replacing the head coach appears to result in worse performance over subsequent years than comparable teams who retained their coach.

The authors of the paper I shared discredit the authors/premise of the Freakonomics article you shared.

 

[Natebishop3]

You're both nerds.

 

[Tince]

The authors of the paper I shared discredit the authors/premise of the Freakonomics article you shared.

Fantastic... I look forward to reading it!

More importantly, we need to get it in Olshey's hands this summer so he go to the best coach in the NBA and say he'll triple their salary. A 30% difference would mean a ton more success and revenue. Since no other team is on board with this theory, we need to take advantage before they all catch on!

 

[brooklynballer]

Fantastic... I look forward to reading it!

More importantly, we need to get it in Olshey's hands this summer so he go to the best coach in the NBA and say he'll triple their salary. A 30% difference would mean a ton more success and revenue. Since no other team is on board with this theory, we need to take advantage before they all catch on!

Mock the article all you want but it certainly disproves the narrative you’ve been pushing for months (if not years).

BTW, Olshey’s a fucking tool himself. He’s the last person I would put in charge of finding a top tier coach. He needs to be shown the exit at the same time as your boy Stotts.

 

[THE HCP]

Where’s the fun in insulting some guy’s mother????

Here I’ll show you.......
Your moms is SO stupid, it took her an hour and a half to watch 60 minutes!!!! #BAM#BAM#BAM

 

[Orion Bailey]

Semantics arguing is hilarious

i didn't say coaching useless, i said it doesnt matter much. I think coaching is 4.8% effective. Don't make it look like i said its .48% effective, because i didnt say that!
that's not what i said.....


Oh boy....the levels people will go to to make sure they aren't wrong.

and im not even saying whether coaching is important or not. But man the sideshift posts was a waste of a read.....

for the record, I think good coaching is 19.3776666666666666666% of the equation for a championship ring.
More than that and it wont work.
Leas than that and your in the lottery.
Exactly that and we win a ring!!

Now. Just follow my words, as I'm the pied piper of all things right.

 

[Tince]

Semantics arguing is hilarious

i didn't say coaching useless, i said it doesnt matter much. I think coaching is 4.8% effective. Don't make it look like i said its .48% effective, because i didnt say that!
that's not what i said.....


Oh boy....the levels people will go to to make sure they aren't wrong.

and im not even saying whether coaching is important or not. But man the sideshift posts was a waste of a read.....

for the record, I think good coaching is 19.3776666666666666666% of the equation for a championship ring.
More than that and it wont work.
Leas than that and your in the lottery.
Exactly that and we win a ring!!

Now. Just follow my words, as I'm the pied piper of all things right.

Nailed it, thank you!

 

[Tince]

Mock the article all you want but it certainly disproves the narrative you’ve been pushing for months (if not years).

BTW, Olshey’s a fucking tool himself. He’s the last person I would put in charge of finding a top tier coach. He needs to be shown the exit at the same time as your boy Stotts.

I haven't even read the entire paper, it could be great, I'm open to it.

Sorry you think Olshey and Stotts are the worst GM/Coach in the history of sports.

 

[James lamphear]

Here I’ll show you.......
Your moms is SO stupid, it took her an hour and a half to watch 60 minutes!!!! #BAM#BAM#BAM

Keep your day job!

 

[THE HCP]

 

[brooklynballer]

Nailed it, thank you!

Whooosh! Right over your head... lol.

 

[Tince]

Whooosh! Right over your head... lol.

No, I got it... I liked it... which went right over your head! I can take a ribbing w/out getting all bent out of shape; I thought it was funny!

Nothing personal or worth getting angry over from me, we're just debating hoops on a message board. All in good fun (for some).

 

[Tince]

This is proof Stotts is getting fired.

 

[brooklynballer]

No, I got it... I liked it... which went right over your head! I can take a ribbing w/out getting all bent out of shape; I thought it was funny!

Nothing personal or worth getting angry over from me, we're just debating hoops on a message board. All in good fun (for some).

Lol. Yah, you don’t get bent out of shape at all! ROTFLMAO. You clearly demonstrated that yesterday. Clearly.

(Says the guy who can’t even admit he’s wrong or mistaken in the face of irrefutable evidence).

 

[Tince]

Lol. Yah, you don’t get bent out of shape at all! ROTFLMAO. You clearly demonstrated that yesterday. Clearly.

(Says the guy who can’t even admit he’s wrong or mistaken in the face of irrefutable evidence).

I wasn't upset yesterday at all, I enjoyed the debate. I liked the article you sent, I liked your perspective. I didn't threaten to be done with you over and over while continuing to respond. All good on my end my friend, I have NOTHING against you or your stance. Hopefully you feel the same way!

 

[brooklynballer]

I wasn't upset yesterday at all, I enjoyed the debate. I liked the article you sent, I liked your perspective. I didn't threaten to be done with you over and over while continuing to respond. All good on my end my friend, I have NOTHING against you or your stance. Hopefully you feel the same way!

 

[Phatguysrule]

Because by all accounts, it was Dame who finally righted the ship. Nowhere in any of that does it say that Stotts did a damn thing to turn things around. He's a passenger on this, just like the rest of us. If Dame hadn't owned up and taken accountability, we finish the season badly and are most likely in the play-in.

If Stotts didn't change anything and the game plan is now working it seems like it was more of a player execution problem... The best game plan in the world isn't going to beat a more talented team who is executing an equally good game plan.

The Blazers haven't lost to less talented teams in the playoffs. They have beaten some teams they shouldn't have... and usually bowed out to the best team in the conference/league.

 

[Lanny]

So if we were to lose all three games to the Grizzlies... not even then?

Well, that's just not gonna happen. I won't allow it.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Interesting quote: Bogdanovic on Nate McMillan’s influence: “The coaching was a crucial part of our success. There’s a lot of teams that are talented in the league but they’re not under control. I think he put a little control in this team and he helped us get these wins”
I don't want Nate back, but I think a lot of people would like to see a little bit more control here.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Interesting quote: Bogdanovic on Nate McMillan’s influence: “The coaching was a crucial part of our success. There’s a lot of teams that are talented in the league but they’re not under control. I think he put a little control in this team and he helped us get these wins”
I don't want Nate back, but I think a lot of people would like to see a little bit more control here.

He got absolutely blasted for being way too ridged in his rotations and approach. ISO ball and lack of any offensive creativity. Fans wanted more movement and cutting with better transition scoring. He also was put to task for not using enough stunts, Traps and just overall defensive scheme.

 

[Natebishop3]

Of all the Stotts threads, I didn't think this one would persist. He survived the season. Thread over

 

[Freshtown]

.

 

[Strenuus]

If Stotts didn't change anything and the game plan is now working it seems like it was more of a player execution problem... The best game plan in the world isn't going to beat a more talented team who is executing an equally good game plan.

The Blazers haven't lost to less talented teams in the playoffs. They have beaten some teams they shouldn't have... and usually bowed out to the best team in the conference/league.

Didn't we get swept by a much less talented (at least thats what everyone said) NOLA team with home court?

We were the 3 seed and Nola was the 6.

Doesn't matter though, it's about winning this series and it's gonna be a challenge.

Waiting a fucking week is brutal.