Enough of this....

[yenniedn]

Shaq came in and dominated, Wilt came in and domintad, Kareem domintaed! Oden was put into that once in a decade type of realm, not by me!!!! That's why we took him over KD. The experts all said you can't pass on a center with this type of talent, once in a franchise type of center! Calling me foolish for listening to experts who get paid well more than any of you do for your opinion seems quite odd. Oden was brought in to be the hub of this team. Make no mistake about that. You build around your center!

I know he's coming off a surgery, but meet me half way!!!!



The coaching is awful for a big man here, and to be fair, for a denfensive minded coach like Nate you'd think Greg wouldn't be on the bench in the first quarter of every game! That and OUR DEFENSE SUCKS !!!!

He's on the bench at the end of the first quarter of most games either 1) because he's in foul trouble or 2) that's the normal sub rotation for any NBA squad. Your starters come out after 6-9 minutes of play in the first quarter and your subs come in to relieve them because, oh I don't know, maybe they get tired?

Just because you can point to a couple of guys that came in and "dominated" doesn't mean that everyone will. And everyone that doesn't doesn't become a bust - and it is certainly isn't warranted to call him that after 30+ games.

The guy is basically a high school kid (one and done in college means you might as well just go straight to the NBA) playing against a level of competition he's seldomly ever seen . . . night after night.

How about people take their hands off the panic button and give the kid some time? Just as your precious scouts may know what they're talking about . . . don't you think the Blazers brass (from KP on down) don't know what to do? Last I checked, they've done a pretty good job rebuilding this team of late. I'll surmise that KP (and yes, even the villain Nate) know a lot more about putting together an NBA team, managing it, running it, coaching it than I ever will. If not, I'm sure they'll take the next opportunity to trade him for a late first round pick in this year's draft.

 

[yenniedn]

Shaq came in and dominated, Wilt came in and domintad, Kareem domintaed! Oden was put into that once in a decade type of realm, not by me!!!! That's why we took him over KD. The experts all said you can't pass on a center with this type of talent, once in a franchise type of center! Calling me foolish for listening to experts who get paid well more than any of you do for your opinions seems quite odd. Oden was brought in to be the hub of this team. Make no mistake about that. You build around your center!

This is true. However, it's not domination that some of us expected - it's respectability. I think most of us feel Joel Pryzz has been FAR more helpful to this team, and nobody would say he "dominates". Some of us aren't asking for Greg to be an elite center THIS YEAR - we just didn't expect the guy to play this bad.

You can now clearly see that OP expected Oden to dominate from the get-go - and that's what we're discussing. Any other thread that addresses the situation any different would be replied to differently.

 

[Kaydow]

Yeah, he's played poorly of late. But don't deny that he's had some good games and also certainly had great flashes of what he CAN be. And y'all know what? The inconsistency is part of most every rookie's experience (with very few exceptions).


Pick a rookie, most any rookie and you'll see typically inconsistencies.

He HAS had his moments, but they've been so few and far between. Here's how I saw things before the season started . . . I knew Greg was going to struggle at times with foul trouble. I knew his post-up game was very raw. I knew he had pressure on him beyond anything I'll ever understand. And I knew he was coming off knee surgery. I knew he would commit silly fouls, and look very green at times. I just figured that with his size, strength, and (supposed) freekish athleticism that he would offset more of his mistakes. I thought he would be a monster on the offensive boards - like a young Shaq was. I pictured him in the paint gobbling up offensive rebounds and slamming them home, getting easy points w/o having to run plays for him. That hasn't happened. If he's not the freekish athlete we thought (and I'll admit, I need to give it time. He deserves time to heal from his injury. But I don't see a "feekish" athlete at this point, just a pretty good one) than he better learn the game.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

Greg looks lost out there and and when he does foul out or have to sit the bench he looks more often relieved cause he's not really part of the offense to begin with. Who should be accountable for your franchise center looking that lost? If you're going to say he's young on one hand, then he better be getting coached, I'm not seeing that. I have yet to see Nate grab Greg on the sideline of a game and talk to him! He does it with Brandon, Bayless, Rudy, Outlaw, Blake and so forth.

Nate has approached this year backwards. This year was solely to get Greg ready for his role as an elite center. Nate hasn't done it! In order to do it you must run the offense through Greg and have plays called for him and get him going every game early with touches. Win or lose this must be done for Greg to get to be the player he needs to be. He will not improve if he doesn't play and be meaningful with that play!

 

[Ghost Pepper]

Um Greg was not introduced as a average run of the mill center so ya know!!!!! That's why he was the most coveted #1 draft pick since Lebron!! He was compared to Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson and Bill R. This kid has been followed since the 8th grade!!!! Yea he's that good!!!

 

[yenniedn]

He HAS had his moments, but they've been so few and far between. Here's how I saw things before the season started . . . I knew Greg was going to struggle at times with foul trouble. I knew his post-up game was very raw. I knew he had pressure on him beyond anything I'll ever understand. And I knew he was coming off knee surgery. I knew he would commit silly fouls, and look very green at times. I just figured that with his size, strength, and (supposed) freekish athleticism that he would offset more of his mistakes. I thought he would be a monster on the offensive boards - like a young Shaq was. I pictured him in the paint gobbling up offensive rebounds and slamming them home, getting easy points w/o having to run plays for him. That hasn't happened. If he's not the freekish athlete we thought (and I'll admit, I need to give it time. He deserves time to heal from his injury. But I don't see a "feekish" athlete at this point, just a pretty good one) than he better learn the game.

You seem to contradict yourself. You start out with reasonable, sane expectations of the guy going in. Then you figure that his freakish athleticism would make up for most of the downside but then you admit that he's coming off surgery and probably not back to where he was or should be. I'm sure he's doing his best to learn the game and I'm sure the staff isn't just telling him to sit out of practices because he doesn't need to learn the game. We don't see even 5% of the stuff that goes on outside of what's televised on games so I wouldn't want to guess at it.

Greg looks lost out there and and when he does foul out or have to sit the bench he looks more often relieved cause he's not really part of the offense to begin with. Who should be accountable for your franchise center looking that lost? If you're going to say he's young on one hand, then he better be getting coached, I'm not seeing that. I have yet to see Nate grab Greg on the sideline of a game and talk to him! He does it with Brandon, Bayless, Rudy, Outlaw, Blake and so forth.

Nate has approached this year backwards. This year was solely to get Greg ready for his role as an elite center. Nate hasn't done it! In order to do it you must run the offense through Greg and have plays called for him and get him going every game early with touches. Win or lose this must be done for Greg to get to be the player he needs to be. He will not improve if he doesn't play and be meaningful with that play!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Oden first and only approach would go over well with the rest of the team. Nothing happens in a vacuum. If we know anything about the NBA and the multi-millionaire 20-somethings that make up it's talent base, they can be tempermental, sulking prima-donnas as need be. Let's forget about your All-Star Roy and your up and coming power forward and your prized Euro recruit that you pried from Spain and the rest and just level everything on Oden's shoulders.

Everything else aside, managing the personalities on an NBA team must be one of the hardest things to do. You don't have to look back very far in Blazers history to know that you can't just buy as much big name talent as your owner can afford and expect it all to magically work out somehow. Developing Oden is a must (and I'm sure it's a high priority) but you can't just push the rest of the team aside.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't buy the whole "if we don't do something now he'll be lost forever"... Tyson Chandler didn't come into his own until he got to New Orleans (and started playing with Chris Paul). Guys can turn it around. Confidence can come and go. It's not like Greg has a "expires by" date. He isn't a fragile flower, and if he is then he's not going to be great anyway. The kid needs to develop. Period. I just wish McMillain would give him some more touches and let him play through his fouls. Who cares if he fouls out.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

If Phil got Oden, trust me the ball would be pounded into him because Phil knows that Kobe can go off when other teams are focusing on Greg! This isn't that hard man! That's exactly how the Lakers won those rings. Everyone had to contend with Shaq and Kobe was left to roam as was Fisher, Horry and George. Inside out is how it works! That's not opinion! Championships teams prove me right!

Why do ya think Roy was so excited when we got Oden? He knows that if Oden is fed he is a star! Get the ball to Oden and I PROMISE ROY IS AN ALLSTAR FOR YEARS TO COME as is LA!

 

[Ghost Pepper]

Here's another way to look at it! We are running through the guards now and losing to the Bobcats and a sub 500 76's team. Why not run it through Oden for the next five games? If he fouls out fine, but I'll bet ya when three collapse in on Oden, Roys and LA's shots become super easy to get.

 

[Natebishop3]

If Phil got Oden, trust me the ball would be pounded into him because Phil knows that Kobe can go off when other teams are focusing on Greg! This isn't that hard man! That's exactly how the Lakers won those rings. Everyone had to contend with Shaq and Kobe was left to roam as was Fisher, Horry and George. Inside out is how it works! That's not opinion! Championships teams prove me right!

Why do ya think Roy was so excited when we got Oden? He knows that if Oden is fed he is a star! Get the ball to Oden and I PROMISE ROY IS AN ALLSTAR FOR YEARS TO COME as is LA!

Then why doesn't Roy feed him?

 

[yenniedn]

YardAPE, you obviously are not going to take my original advice and go APE shit in your yard so I'm going to stop beating my head against this proverbial wall and take my kids out to our yard so we all can go ape shit. I'm pretty sure I'll feel better about this thread and everything else afterwards.

I give Oden until Monday night to start dominating - and if he doesn't I'm going to fly up to Portland and protest in front of the Rose Garden.

 

[Kaydow]

You seem to contradict yourself. You start out with reasonable, sane expectations of the guy going in. Then you figure that his freakish athleticism would make up for most of the downside but then you admit that he's coming off surgery and probably not back to where he was or should be. I'm sure he's doing his best to learn the game and I'm sure the staff isn't just telling him to sit out of practices because he doesn't need to learn the game. We don't see even 5% of the stuff that goes on outside of what's televised on games so I wouldn't want to guess at it.

I don't think I'm being contradictory. I didn't say I expected his "freekish" athlecism to be yielding 20/10/3. What I meant was that even in the year back from MF Surgery, Amare still threw down some thunderous dunks, and made plenty of highlight reels. He just couldn't do it for 48 minutes and 82 games. I think it's safe to say that the year coming off MF, you can expect 75-80% of the mobility and explosiveness (some nights more, some less) I'll be patient before I call for the guys head, but I just haven't seen Oden do much of anything that makes me say "Wow, what an Athlete!" - Even in his shining moments. It scares me a little, but I'm not giving up on him. Maybe he'll surprise me and come back next year exploding to the basket and thowing down alley oops and blocking shot after shot. Well see.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't think I'm being contradictory. I didn't say I expected his "freekish" athlecism to be yielding 20/10/3. What I meant was that even in the year back from MF Surgery, Amare still threw down some thunderous dunks, and made plenty of highlight reels. He just couldn't do it for 48 minutes and 82 games. I think it's safe to say that the year coming off MF, you can expect 75-80% of the mobility and explosiveness (some nights more, some less) I'll be patient before I call for the guys head, but I just haven't seen Oden do much of anything that makes me say "Wow, what an Athlete!" - Even in his shining moments. It scares me a little, but I'm not giving up on him. Maybe he'll surprise me and come back next year exploding to the basket and thowing down alley oops and blocking shot after shot. Well see.

Well, to be fair, our guards don't throw many alley oops anyway. If we had Chris Paul, I think you'd see a difference.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

I think the reason Greg isn't being passed to is cause he looks lost and out of position out there most of the time. When he does establish the low post he gets the dunk or is at the foul line. The high pick and roll with him seems it could be run a lot better too. There has to be a discipline made by the guards to get the ball to him every game and early.Every game! Once he's rolling, their shots will come and they'll be free to set up and shoot. Roy, Blake and Rudy should really take advantage of this because it feeds to their strengths and set shot preferences!

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Current Greg...slower than young thin Shaq
Current Greg...slower than Fat Shaq
Current Greg...slower than OSU Greg

Forget about bitching about the coach, Greg's touches, the officials, or anything else.

To fulfill his potential, Greg has to
a) get into basketball shape
b) play smarter
c) get his quickness back

The first two will happen with time. The last one is the most important, and it's not obvious it will happen.
Channing is much less quick than when he was a rookie, and I don't think he'll get his quickness back.

Without his OSU quickness, Greg Oden is not really Greg Oden. They mine as well be different players.

So, we don't really have Greg Oden yet.

I fear those saying that we need to wait a year are right. Even worse, I fear we may never get Greg Oden

 

[Natebishop3]

Current Greg...slower than young thin Shaq
Current Greg...slower than Fat Shaq
Current Greg...slower than OSU Greg

Forget about bitching about the coach, Greg's touches, the officials, or anything else.

To fulfill his potential, Greg has to
a) get into basketball shape
b) play smarter
c) get his quickness back

The first two will happen with time. The last one is the most important, and it's not obvious it will happen.
Channing is much less quick than when he was a rookie, and I don't think he'll get his quickness back.

Without his OSU quickness, Greg Oden is not really Greg Oden. They mine as well be different players.

So, we don't really have Greg Oden yet.

I fear those saying that we need to wait a year are right. Even worse, I fear we may never get Greg Oden

Sam Bowie volume II, the collectors edition.

 

[Sug]

Leads all rooks in double doubles with less games and minutes. Just came off of micro fracture surgery which caused him to miss an entire year of basketball. Yes he is having foul trouble just like LMA did as a rookie. His biggest problem is the total lack of defense on the perimeter, because he gets hung out to dry all the time. He needs to learn that some baskets are just going to happen, he is being too aggressive on the defensive end.

 

[C_note]

Typical thread on this forum...crying like a little girl.

 

[ABM]

Are Greg's hands really small? He sure does seem to get the ball swatted away, or fumbles and bumbles it, a lot.

 

[TehChad]

The coaching is awful for a big man here

OUR DEFENSE SUCKS !!!!

Oden is NOT being developed!!!

He can't play an entire game, his fouls are killing him early, and his footwork isn't getting better. He doesn't even get the #1 draft pick nods by the refs!

Greg played against no one yesterday and got five points! This is a problem!

Nate has approached this year backwards. This year was solely to get Greg ready for his role as an elite center. Nate hasn't done it!

Ok so Greg sucks, Sam Bowie v2, we shoulda picked Durant, he'll never be any good, blah blah blah etc etc etc. We get it. So what? What do you propose we do? Trade Oden? Bench him? Put him in the D-League? Just whining about it doesn't do any good. I'd like to hear your solution to this problem. What magic knowledge and insight do you have that the Blazers organization and coaching staff don't see?

The first reply from DaRizzle is spot on, and worth repeating: 34 games. I'd say he's doing just fine for a 20 year old rookie coming off MF surgery, but you seem to be the basketball deity here, so maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

TehChad,

Well another person on this board who can't read an entire post, shocker! I've NEVER EVER said we should trade Oden, or we should've taken KD! Read my posts and you'll see that! In fact, I've been harping on why aren't we running the offense through him just like the Lakers did with Shaq? This would open up Roy and Bayless to create, Outlaw and Rudy to set and shoot. My concern with Greg if you can read hasn't been about his talent, cause I think he's loaded, but with the coaching, lack of touches, and teaching of his center skills. What I've criticized about Greg can ALL be corrected with decent coaching!

I have suggested numerous times to change his big mans coach and keep throwing the ball into the low post for him and make the guards disciplined to do it for the first quarter of every game! I have suggested Oden and LA working back picks off of each other. I've suggested working with the high pick and roll so Greg executes it better. WTF have you suggested? Oh that's right you just show up to attack posters!

Maybe when your learn to read a whole post skipper you'll do better!

 

[MARIS61]

Greg's doing fine, considering he is being asked to learn a completely different style of basketball rather than the uptempo, run and pass style that made him so successful.

I'll give him 2 years without whining about it.

 

[Natebishop3]

Ok so Greg sucks, Sam Bowie v2, we shoulda picked Durant, he'll never be any good, blah blah blah etc etc etc. We get it. So what? What do you propose we do? Trade Oden? Bench him? Put him in the D-League? Just whining about it doesn't do any good. I'd like to hear your solution to this problem. What magic knowledge and insight do you have that the Blazers organization and coaching staff don't see?

The first reply from DaRizzle is spot on, and worth repeating: 34 games. I'd say he's doing just fine for a 20 year old rookie coming off MF surgery, but you seem to be the basketball deity here, so maybe I'm wrong.

Actually I thought it was pretty clear I was joking with the Same Bowie comment.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

This is my point! Our team is the youngest in the NBA without Raef, why in the world couldn't we tailor this team to Gregs strengths? He is a once in a decade center who any team would build around! Nate's offense isn't amazing right now, and many on this board have complained that with the type of YOUNG ATHLETIC players we have, why aren't we running more?

To continue with a coach and an offense that doesn't play to our greatest strengths with this young of a team doesn't make sense!!!!!!! It would be one thing if Nate had these guys playing amazing defense and we didn't want to mess with that, but come on....... Greg is in foul trouble cause our guards don't help each other and he has to play clean up out of position. We've all seen this!

When if not now would be a better time to put in an offense that plays to Greg's strengths, and our young fast team?

We have the wrong coach for this type of team!

Solution: Run and Gun coach!

 

[WillG]

many on this board have complained that with the type of YOUNG ATHLETIC players we have, why aren't we running more?

To continue with a coach and an offense that doesn't play to our greatest strengths with this young of a team doesn't make sense!!!!!!! It would be one thing if Nate had these guys playing amazing defense and we didn't want to mess with that, but come on....... Greg is in foul trouble cause our guards don't help each other and he has to play clean up out of position. We've all seen this!

When if not now would be a better time to put in an offense that plays to Greg's strengths, and our young fast team?

We have the wrong coach for this type of team!

Solution: Run and Gun coach!

Absolutely, 100% Agree. This is the answer for the team at this point.

 

[TehChad]

I've NEVER EVER said we should trade Oden, or we should've taken KD!

And show me where I accused you of saying said things? I just threw the ideas out there because I was thinking you'd propose a solution of some sort, which of course you didn't.

And I never referred to anything you typed Natebishop 3.

 

[Natebishop3]

And show me where I accused you of saying said things? I just threw the ideas out there because I was thinking you'd propose a solution of some sort, which of course you didn't.

And I never referred to anything you typed Natebishop 3.

I thought maybe you were referring to me with the bowie comment

 

[alex42083]

The O and Joe Freeman sure didn't help matters any in his midseason report, calling G.O. the disappointment of the team.

THE DISAPPOINTMENT: Greg Oden
Blazer fans waited a year for the debut of the 2007 No.1 draft pick and, after 40 games this season, they are still waiting for the star power to materialize. Oden has had his bright spots -- he leads the Blazers in double doubles (11), blocked shots (1.1 per game) and has shown flashes of defensive dominance -- but they have been few and far between. Oden has modest statistics (7.9 points, 6.8 rebounds per game) and he is sabotaging his development with foul trouble; he leads the Blazers with 129 fouls, contributing to him playing the seventh-fewest minutes on the team. It all suggests that he is succumbing to the pressure of being a No.1 overall pick. The good news? He's only 34 games into a career that is too early to judge.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/01/blazers_at_the_halfway_point.html

Personally, I'd label some of our bench players as the disappointments this season, Channing and Sergio in particular as the season has progressed.

 

[uosean]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! AHHH!!. . . We're not going to see the real Greg Oden this year. We probably won't even see him at full strength next year but give the guy some time to breathe. We're not winning the championship this year. Let him take his lumps and learn. He'll be fine.

 

[Nikolokolus]

This is my point! Our team is the youngest in the NBA without Raef, why in the world couldn't we tailor this team to Gregs strengths? He is a once in a decade center who any team would build around! Nate's offense isn't amazing right now, and many on this board have complained that with the type of YOUNG ATHLETIC players we have, why aren't we running more?

To continue with a coach and an offense that doesn't play to our greatest strengths with this young of a team doesn't make sense!!!!!!! It would be one thing if Nate had these guys playing amazing defense and we didn't want to mess with that, but come on....... Greg is in foul trouble cause our guards don't help each other and he has to play clean up out of position. We've all seen this!

When if not now would be a better time to put in an offense that plays to Greg's strengths, and our young fast team?

We have the wrong coach for this type of team!

Solution: Run and Gun coach!

Have you ever wondered why all of the previous teams that have come before this group of Blazers of a similar age and other teams around the league that are super young have an almost universally abysmal record? What makes this team so different that they've been able to beat projections and post win totals that most outside observers would say places them beyond their years? Maybe, just maybe we have a coach that actually understands his team's weaknesses and strengths and does a pretty good job setting them up for success by limiting exposure to their weaknesses and maximizing strengths.

I'm not saying Nate is the best coach in the league, or even that he's guaranteed to be this team's leader during (hopefully) deep pushes into the playoffs in future seasons, but I think you vastly underrate what he's been able to do with both marginal talent in his first couple of seasons with the team and now with good but young talent these past two seasons. I have almost no doubt that if we had a run-n-gun team they would post spectacular point totals and rack up the losses left and right.

You think Nate isn't running the offense through Greg because he's inept, I on the other hand think Nate realizes that counting on a raw rookie center who never had much of an offensive game to begin with and can't seem to stay on the court because of massive foul trouble is the stuff of fantasy and would lead to disastrous results.