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[Ed O]

Let's see what things look like after May 17th. If there's a way to add Jerami Grant and Jabari Smith or Paolo Banchero as our starting forwards to Dame, Ant and Nurk with Nas, Hart, Winslow, an early second round pick and TPMLE off the bench then I would think we'd be doing better than treading water. Obviously it's more likely that we we move back one pick or stay at 6 than move up but let's just see what goes down before making statements about how certain we are that we can't contend with Dame.

Well, if we get a top-2 pick then everything looks better, but even then I don't think that we're much better than we were heading into this season, when we were a borderline playoff team. Nobody coming in will be as good as CJ was, and I'm not sure that anyone new would be better than Powell, either.

So, no. I don't think it's too early because unless a trade comes out of nowhere that's great for the Blazers, the upside for the next year or two is very limited even with lottery luck.

Cronin seems way too inflexible when it comes to his goal of building an immediate contender around Dame.

I agree, assuming he's telling the truth. If he's lying out his teeth in order to drive up the price for a team to get Dame, then I'll give him credit. But telegraphing that you want to trade the future to prop up the team around Dame in the near term and then DOING it? That strikes me as dumb on a couple of levels.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Why would a top tier GM come here?

Not saying they would. But a small market team needs one to try to compete.

 

[Ed O]

I don't see any evidence that there was better value available for what we sent out. And make no mistake, he had to make moves if he wanted to get the job. Keeping those contracts was not an option. Keeping CJ was not an option.

Without landing on Mars, he was not going to keep his job as GM.

I can make shit up, too. Haha

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Can't wait to hear all the spins on how Cronin is a genius if we lose the Pelicans pick and we just need to see his vision through.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Not saying they would. But a small market team needs one to try to compete.

Probably should change GMs every 6 months then I guess... that's probably the best course of action...

 

[Wade Garrett]

Can't wait to hear all the spins on how Cronin is a genius if we lose the Pelicans pick and we just need to see his vision through.

Cronin got rid of CJ, roco and Norm.
That alone makes him a great GM in my book.
But it really is not fair to judge the results yet.
People who say "we could have gotten back more...etc;" have NO FUCKING WAY of knowing this. Period.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Without landing on Mars, he was not going to keep his job as GM.

I can make shit up, too. Haha

Right. He just did all of that without a directive from Vulcan... sure...

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Probably should change GMs every 6 months then I guess... that's probably the best course of action...

If the gm is doing a shit job then sure. The goal is to win a title. Should we have kept John Nash around longer to see his shitshow through? How about Rich Cho?

Did we give Neil Olshey enough time to waste Dame's time with us?

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Cronin got rid of CJ, roco and Norm.
That alone makes him a great GM in my book.
But it really is not fair to judge the results yet.
People who say "we could have gotten back more...etc;" have NO FUCKING WAY of knowing this. Period.

I'm sorry, if his gamble with the Pelicans 1st rounder doesn't pay off, he should be fired.

 

[Phatguysrule]

If the gm is doing a shit job then sure. The goal is to win a title. Should we have kept John Nash around longer to see his shitshow through? How about Rich Cho?

Did we give Neil Olshey enough time to waste Dame's time with us?

The more apt comparison is probably Chad Buchanan...

 

[SlyPokerCat]

The more apt comparison is probably Chad Buchanan...

Sure, if we keep the pick and he drafts the next Dame, keep Cronin for a couple more years.

I'm not saying we need to fire the guy immediately. Unless we lose the Pelicans pick. Either way, should be on a short leash.

 

[blazerkor]

Well, if we get a top-2 pick then everything looks better, but even then I don't think that we're much better than we were heading into this season, when we were a borderline playoff team. Nobody coming in will be as good as CJ was, and I'm not sure that anyone new would be better than Powell, either.

So, no. I don't think it's too early because unless a trade comes out of nowhere that's great for the Blazers, the upside for the next year or two is very limited even with lottery luck.



I agree, assuming he's telling the truth. If he's lying out his teeth in order to drive up the price for a team to get Dame, then I'll give him credit. But telegraphing that you want to trade the future to prop up the team around Dame in the near term and then DOING it? That strikes me as dumb on a couple of levels.

Nobody coming in will be as good as CJ offensively but admittedly the Dame/CJ pairing had run it's course half a decade ago so trading CJ was the right move and I don't think a return of Hart, NAW and a late lotto pick was a terrible return. Unfortunately NAW was traded for an expiring contract of an already aging player who had just blown out his knee and the pick still isn't a sure thing to convey... oh and we included Larry who despite what everyone is saying is a valuable player on a good contract.

Powell was really good too and I think he is a better fit next to Dame than CJ or Ant could ever be but was never given the chance to play in a back court with Dame consistently enough to see what they could do. The return that we got back for him and RoCo is seriously embarrassing.

That being said, if we do get lucky in the draft Jabari or Paolo might be better when considering fit than either of those guys, starting as early as next season. Both of those guys are really big and really mobile with great hands and feet. Both can shoot the ball and finish at the rim. They also both have the tools necessary to be good to great defenders at PF obviously it's easier to see Jabari great on that end than Paolo due to the difference in the tenacity that we've already seen. While I'm sure you're right that on the Pelicans, CJ's numbers will be better than either of those two's next season you have to think about what complements this team's personnel.

 

[Wade Garrett]

I'm sorry, if his gamble with the Pelicans 1st rounder doesn't pay off, he should be fired.

Well that pick would be nice, for sure.
But so far, to me, we treaded CJ McCollum to New Orleans for Josh Hart, Didi Louzada, and Anfernee Simons.
That's how I look at it.
Anything else is gravy.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Why can’t we keep our pick AND keep Dame? In our range, if we’re smart and lucky, we can get a player better than Grant who helps now and in near future. Would Dame have not liked playing with Scottie Barnes or Evan Mobley? Furthermore, trading for Grant is not a “win now” move. A win now move must actually make you win now.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Well that pick would be nice, for sure.
But so far, to me, we treaded CJ McCollum to New Orleans for Josh Hart, Didi Louzada, and Anfernee Simons.
That's how I look at it.
Anything else is gravy.

Assets are used to try to better the team. Didi is a nothing burger. Josh Hart is fine, but he is not as good as CJ. We already had Simons. Sure, he can play more and yadda yadda. But without that lotto pick, we badly, badly lose the trade.

 

[Wade Garrett]

Assets are used to try to better the team. Didi is a nothing burger. Josh Hart is fine, but he is not as good as CJ. We already had Simons. Sure, he can play more and yadda yadda. But without that lotto pick, we badly, badly lose the trade.

Yadda yadda??
I guess now is as good a time as any to inform you I am definitely a dog person!

 

[SlyPokerCat]

I guess now is as good a time as any to inform you I am definitely a dog person!

That's fine. And you can keep wearing rose colored glasses. That's your right as a fan.

I'm not opposed to seeing what Cronin does this offseason. This is such an important offseason. If he biffs it, he has gotta go.

 

[blazerkor]

Why can’t we keep our pick AND keep Dame? In our range, if we’re smart and lucky, we can get a player better than Grant who helps now and in near future. Would Dame have not liked playing with Scottie Barnes or Evan Mobley? Furthermore, trading for Grant is not a “win now” move. A win now move must actually make you win now.

Yeah I think all of us will be livid if we use our pick to get Grant but if we do use our pick to get a guy that is like Barnes or Mobley, I don't think using the Pelicans pick to get Grant would be a huge mistake. He definitely wouldn't be the first option like he was on the Pistons and with Dame, Ant and Nurk along with a rookie starter, Grant's offensive role would probably be just a little bit more than the one he flourished in with the Nuggets... which helped them win a lot and would definitely help us win now. Grant is a legit two way player who can score in a number of ways especially when he's not being asked to facilitate most of his own scoring opportunities.

 

[Wade Garrett]

That's fine. And you can keep wearing rose colored glasses. That's your right as a fan.

I'm not opposed to seeing what Cronin does this offseason. This is such an important offseason. If he biffs it, he has gotta go.

So Neil gets almost a decade to fuck everything up and if Joe can't fix it in one he's gone?
IDK man...

 

[Natebishop3]

Cronin got rid of CJ, roco and Norm.
That alone makes him a great GM in my book.
But it really is not fair to judge the results yet.
People who say "we could have gotten back more...etc;" have NO FUCKING WAY of knowing this. Period.

You're right.... we'll never know BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WAIT UNTIL THE DEADLINE TO TRADE THEM.

 

[illmatic99]

So wait.... are they done? No more players? I dunno why I was under the impression that there would be multiple sessions.

 

[Natebishop3]

So Neil gets almost a decade to fuck everything up and if Joe can't fix it in one he's gone?
IDK man...

He should never have been given the opportunity to "fix it."

They should hive hired a new GM this summer and let that executive mold the team. Not some rookie GM who might not even be here after this season.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

So Neil gets almost a decade to fuck everything up and if Joe can't fix it in one he's gone?
IDK man...

2 wrongs don't make a right. Olshey should have been gone a long time ago.

If Joe can't make us a contender, he has to go. I don't care if he is a nice guy. Rich Cho was the nicest guy and he got booted after a year.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Can't wait to hear all the spins on how Cronin is a genius if we lose the Pelicans pick and we just need to see his vision through.

I don't look at it this way at all; the trade of CJ was either bad, neutral, or good back when it happened. Cronin doesn't have a crystal ball nor should we expect him to. You can't grade a trade in hindsight.

There was always a risk the pick could not convey, what actually happens with the pick in May is irrelevant in grading the trade back in February. If the pick jumped up to #5 Cronin shouldn't get all that credit, nor all the blame for the pick not conveying. There was always a risk/reward outcome possibility with this pick, Cronin should get credit for the expected value of the pick back in February.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't look at it this way at all; the trade of CJ was either bad, neutral, or good back when it happened. Cronin doesn't have a crystal ball nor should we expect him to. You can't grade a trade in hindsight.

There was always a risk the pick could not convey, what actually happens with the pick in May is irrelevant in grading the trade back in February. If the pick jumped up to #5 Cronin shouldn't get all that credit, nor all the blame for the pick not conveying. There was always a risk/reward outcome possibility with this pick, Cronin should get credit for the expected value of the pick back in February.

He took a massive gamble with one of our only tradable assets. It still might work out, but there's a big chance it won't. If the goal is to build a contender around Dame, trading one of the best players for a hope and a prayer wasn't really the best move.

 

[Tince]

They're gutless. There's a very very small chance we're able to actually build a contender around Dame at this point. It's not impossible, but it's highly improbable. Meanwhile, Simons looks like he could be the real deal and if we have two lottery picks this summer (fingers crossed) we could really build towards a bright future.

Don't they also have a really small chance of building a contender w/out Dame?

 

[Pinwheel1]

Because it does not exist. I've been considering and rejecting that ridiculous stuff for years (decades).

Teams don't get better in the short run by getting less talented. It doesn't make sense, and it doesn't work.

The only reason to actively seek to get rid of talent is because you want to move your time horizon back: to clear up salary cap messiness and/or to get better draft position in the future.

So... if Cronin made those moves in order to get better for Dame next year, then he's really bad at his job. If he's trying to build for the future, then he may not be as bad, although I think it's hard to argue the value he's gotten back has been very impressive.

Yeah, we did not exactly crush it at the trade deadline. But I can't say we got less talented either. For me, it is all about who you have left as opposed to what you gave up. Sure we all wanted more draft picks, but generally, most players are quickly replaceable.

I loved CJ, but Hart and Simons will fill his minutes just as well, if not better next year. I liked Nance, but he was always hurt, and hell I think we can make a case for Watford being just as useful by next year. I liked Norm but he was being played out of position, and I would rather have Little and Winslow (and Hart) at SF. As for Covington, he was a free agent and was not coming back, so losing him meant nothing to me.

There are others that were involved as well but nobody that can't be replaced. CJ was by far the best player we lost in the trades, but the meJ posts on this board every day were so annoying that it was almost worth losing him just so they would all shut up.

Anyway, my point is when you have a salary cap and you have a limited number of players on a team, there seldom is a player that can't be easily replaced. Dame IMO is the one that can't be easily replaced. Even if we just add someone like Grant, I think an argument can be made that we will be better next year than we have been in a few years. Of course health will be a huge wildcard in that as usual

 

[SharpesTriumph]

He should never have been given the opportunity to "fix it."

They should hive hired a new GM this summer and let that executive mold the team. Not some rookie GM who might not even be here after this season.

Agreed. The problem is Jody/Vulcans gave Joe the authority to do massive changes to the roster as in interim during the season. They should have decided on a permeate GM then have that GM implement a new long term direction. In the interim Joe should've just done deals to maximizing value of expiring contracts and get out of the luxury tax.

Instead Joe has stripped the starting talent off this roster so there is no way to realistically build a contender around Dame, nor is there a way to maximize the exchange of starting players for youth/draft picks of a long rebuild.

There are a few homer delusional fans or people blindsided by Neil hate that they can't see the above. A majority of rational Blazer fans see the writing on the wall and how depressing the future of this franchise is.

 

[Natebishop3]

Don't they also have a really small chance of building a contender w/out Dame?

Nah, I'd argue that we have a worse chance of winning a championship soon the longer we hold onto Dame. He keeps us just good enough to not get good picks, but we don't have the flexibility or assets to put the players around him that could win a ring.

 

[Natebishop3]

Agreed. The problem is Jody/Vulcans gave Joe the authority to do massive changes to the roster as in interim during the season. They should have decided on a permeate GM then have that GM implement a new long term direction. In the interim Joe should've just done deals to maximizing value of expiring contracts and get out of the luxury tax.

Instead Joe has stripped the starting talent off this roster so there is no way to realistically build a contender around Dame, nor is there a way to maximize the exchange of starting players for youth/draft picks of a long rebuild.

There are a few homer delusional fans or people blindsided by Neil hate that they can't see the above. A majority of rational Blazer fans see the writing on the wall and how depressing the future of this franchise is.

I think trading Roco was fine because he was a free agent. I think trading CJ and Norm was flat out stupid. Norm was a good player on a decent contract. Joe should have been fired for that deal. The CJ deal might end up being decent. I guess we will see.